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 Hellebore wrote:
Gw misleads its customers in the name of profit and then creates a horrible gaming environment of marines fighting marines whose players all wonder why there aren't non marine armies to fight.

Because there are 2 tiers of gw customer, imperial and non imperial..except they don't tell people that and don't admit it. So they get a keen kid who wants Orks and then sinks their money into a faction that gw doesn't care about. So they get tired of it and either quit entirely or move to marines where they actually feel appreciated and can get gold plated service.

Until gw either admits to its customers this truth, or actively shifts their internal biases to give equal time to all factions, the disfunction will continue.

You know, I think Custodes ,Deathwatch and Grey Knights players would love their factions to be as ignored as Orks, when it comes to model support.

 a_typical_hero wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:
Gw misleads its customers in the name of profit and then creates a horrible gaming environment of marines fighting marines whose players all wonder why there aren't non marine armies to fight.

Because there are 2 tiers of gw customer, imperial and non imperial..except they don't tell people that and don't admit it. So they get a keen kid who wants Orks and then sinks their money into a faction that gw doesn't care about. So they get tired of it and either quit entirely or move to marines where they actually feel appreciated and can get gold plated service.

Until gw either admits to its customers this truth, or actively shifts their internal biases to give equal time to all factions, the disfunction will continue.

You know, I think Custodes ,Deathwatch and Grey Knights players would love their factions to be as ignored as Orks, when it comes to model support.

Given half the grey knight and deathwatch units are just rebadged space marine vehicles they already do.

I'm not particularly sad about it when you can cut those 3 armies and the imperium still has 9 codexes or codex supplements with their own models, which is more than a third of all codexes. With those 3 is FIFTY PERCENT.

So all you've done is complain that the Joneses are poor too because they only have 10 cars instead of 50. It's like posh spice claiming her family is working class....

 a_typical_hero wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:
Gw misleads its customers in the name of profit and then creates a horrible gaming environment of marines fighting marines whose players all wonder why there aren't non marine armies to fight.

Because there are 2 tiers of gw customer, imperial and non imperial..except they don't tell people that and don't admit it. So they get a keen kid who wants Orks and then sinks their money into a faction that gw doesn't care about. So they get tired of it and either quit entirely or move to marines where they actually feel appreciated and can get gold plated service.

Until gw either admits to its customers this truth, or actively shifts their internal biases to give equal time to all factions, the disfunction will continue.

You know, I think Custodes ,Deathwatch and Grey Knights players would love their factions to be as ignored as Orks, when it comes to model support.

How about the Orks get a Freebooters, Feral Orks and Speed Freaks codex?

A codex and individual models for every clan?

"Oh no, Paladin Space Marines, Special Forces Space Marines and Bodyguard Space Marines don't get treated better than a mainstay Xenos faction that's been in the game since day one!"

I've changed my mind. Make the marines S5 T5 and give them 5 shots a dude instead of 4. Let's just really go for it.

 Hellebore wrote:
Given half the grey knight and deathwatch units are just rebadged space marine vehicles they already do.

I'm not particularly sad about it when you can cut those 3 armies and the imperium still has 9 codexes or codex supplements with their own models, which is more than a third of all codexes. With those 3 is FIFTY PERCENT.

So all you've done is complain that the Joneses are poor too because they only have 10 cars instead of 50. It's like posh spice claiming her family is working class....

You are moving goal posts and your bias against everything Marine (and to an extension Imperium) is showing in every post, regardless of topic. There is as much consolidation for Custodes and GKnights in being part of the Imperium mega faction as for Dark Eldar to be part of Aeldari. Why do you complain? Eldar got a big wave of models over the last couple years, just play with them.

 Da Boss wrote:
How about the Orks get a Freebooters, Feral Orks and Speed Freaks codex?

A codex and individual models for every clan?

Why would I have a problem with Orks getting more models? This is not a zero-sum-game.

Why would I have a problem with Orks getting more models? This is not a zero-sum-game.

Tbf, it kind of is given that GW can only produce and ship so many models at a time.

As someone who thinks marines get too much support, I don't really have anything against GK or custodes getting a bit more support. It's not like SW, BA, and DA where a bunch of their units are just extra special versions of vanilla units.

As cool as death company are, part of me can't help but look at them and think that they're basically a glorified head swap. GK units tend to be a bit more fundamentally different even when they do vaguely line up with a vanilla marine unit.

And while I still think custodes should just have been one or two imperial agent options instead of a whole faction, they are similarly fundamentally different in terms of model appearance and capabilities than vanilla marines.

Love Death Watch, but their units just aren't that special. Especially now that you're not building whacky kill team combos like bike marines mixed with jump pack marines mixed with termies or whatever. (And also, I think a serious case could be made that when they operate on the scale of a 2k army, the things that make them different like kill teams stop working as well both mechanically and in terms of fluff and they essentially become a vanilla marine army.)

 Wyldhunt wrote:
Tbf, it kind of is given that GW can only produce and ship so many models at a time.

On a technical level, yes. But instead of making more Dark Eldar, or Custodes, or GK or whatever else, we have:
- Stormcast Eternals getting a refresh for a 2 year old starter set.
- Horus Heresy.
- The Old World.
- Lord of the Rings.
- Warcry.
- Necromunda.
- Blood Bowl.
- Adeptus Titanicus.
- Legions Imperialis.
- Aeronautica Imperialis.
- Underworlds.
- A couple of boardgames.
- A couple of new factions.

Did any of that reduce the perceived amount of 40k Space Marine releases? The issue is not "GW does not have the manufacturing capacity to flesh out Custodes more or refresh the Grey Knight range or give Dark Eldar something apart from reducing their codex with each iteration.". GW simply doesn't care enough for these ranges.

From my POV Grey Knights and Deathwatch are literally just Space Marines. Like I don't see them as a separate thing at all. Same for Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves and Black Templars. Chaos Space Marines? Also just space marines.

And Custodes are so close in concept to Space Marines that I pretty much consider them the same thing as well.