Switch Theme:

GW's 2006 financials are out.  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

You're assuming that the two are related.  They aren't.  Assuming they are doing better (I have no information one way or the other) FOW/WW could be gaining a broader share of a declining market. Again, I'd like to see what actual industry sales figures are.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Posted By stonefox on 07/25/2006 8:35 AM
Well, since the Skyray box has the parts to make a hammerhead or ionhead as well, for the same price, I don't see the point in buying a hammerhead box anymore.


I think the point he was trying to make is that since virtually everything in the "new" tau line is still the same old models, everyone already has their hammerheads and the skyray's practically useless.

 

you and he both make the same silly assumption that the only people buying TAU are veteran players that already have what they need..  Now, it isn't like you stonefox to make a such a glaringly broad and general brushstroke, but in this case, your assumption is only half right..

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



Bellevue, WA

I don't doubt that there's been some decline in the miniature wargames sector. However it's not the most significant (or even one of the most significant) reasons for GW's declining sales. PP and the guys who make Flames of War have both had very good years. Granted they're smaller, but the fact is their sales are increasing at the same time that GW's sales are decreasing. This indicates that the competition is hurting GW.
   
Made in us
Dominating Dominatrix






Southeastern PA, USA

I don't doubt that there's been some decline in the miniature wargames sector. However it's not the most significant (or even one of the most significant) reasons for GW's declining sales. PP and the guys who make Flames of War have both had very good years. Granted they're smaller, but the fact is their sales are increasing at the same time that GW's sales are decreasing. This indicates that the competition is hurting GW.


However, you can't quantify that, so it's just speculation on your part. And even if PP and Battlefront did have good years, it doesn't change the fact that increases in sales there might be a drop in the bucket compared to GW's losses. People underestimate how much bigger GW is than most of its competition. Jfrazell is right that the industry may be on an overall downward trend.

My World Eaters Showcase
View my Genestealer Cult! Article - Gallery - Blog
Best Appearance - GW Baltimore GT 2008, Colonial GT 2012

DQ:70+S++++G+M++++B++I+Pw40k90#+D++A+++/fWD66R++T(Ot)DM+++

 
   
Made in us
Clousseau





Wilmington DE

I'm trying to remember where I saw it (TMP maybe?), but I did see an article on how the Independant comics and gaming stores are doing. As I recall, the answer was 'poorly', with a goodly number of stores shuttering, and the blame was placed on internet sales.

Anecdotally, I hear about gaming stores around the US either dropping product or evaporating. It's the rare store that continues to do well, these days, and usually it's predicated on having the right balance of diverse product.

EDIT: this might be it: talks about the industry as a whole: http://www.icv2.com/articles/home/8407.html

Highlights from the article:

"Sales were also down for miniature games, with drops in sales of both CMGs and un-painted miniatures.  While there were some success stories such as Privateer's War Machine, ICv2 estimates that the category declined about 25% in 2005. "

Also:

"Top Five Miniature Game Properties<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O ></O >

            1.  Pirates of the Spanish Main<O ></O >

            2.  HeroClix<O ></O >

            3.  Star Wars CMG<O ></O >

            4.  Dungeons & Dragons<O ></O >

            5.  MechWarrior"


Guinness: for those who are men of the cloth and football fans, but not necessarily in that order.

I think the lesson here is the best way to enjoy GW's games is to not use any of their rules.--Crimson Devil 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Part of those declining sales is GW's own damn fault.

They pull items from independents and put them in direct sales only. The people locally say "well, if I can't buy it from my local store to support them since I play here, I'll look on EBay." Person gets used army for half as much. Never actually buys it from GW. Why did he get in on EBay? Because the guy selling it got sick of GW upping their prices.
I saw that July price review. Few models actually went down in price. Those that did are loss leaders. They get you to buy a unit that you wouldn't normally because it sucks, or you have to buy other models to fill out the unit. About the only model I saw in there that was a popular model was a $3 drop in obliterators. You know, the former $25 model...

I've said it before, supply and demand are supposed to work in retail. Demand dropped through the cellar, so GW rose prices. BWAH? Shouldn't prices go down when your supply exceeds demand by that much? Nope, not if you are GW.

That and their special limited edition models for retailers is a stupid move. "CoD box set? Oh, you can't order that anymore." "I have 3 people that want it." "Too bad. Tell them to do direct sales." When we told them, they said GW could stick it up their butts. They refuse to buy it now. When you have this every week, you know they are losing thousands a year, if not more. Multiply that by a few hundred retailers and those losses start making sense as well.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






The Skyray model is not comparable to the Carnifex model.

The Carnifex is a brand new model of a popular monster. Its considered an exemplary piece of GW design and significantly superior to the previous version. This in itself means the Carnifex kit is not only something that existing players will want to upgrade too, but one that will draw new players to the army. Furthermore the rules have been designed to encourage players to take these kits in multiples.

I know lots of veterans playersand new players, who have multiple Carnifexes.

The Skyray may be a new model, buts its based on a Hammerhead chassis, so is hardly oirginal and unlikely in itself to bring players to the Tau army. Neither do the Tau rules particularly encourage the models' use. I'll probably buy one, for the sake to Tau completeness, and 'cause it looks quite fun to use. But I don't know anyone else who is intending to get one. The Skyray, despite being new, will never generate remotely the same revenue as the plastic Carnifex.

New Crisis Suits might have done, but marketing are absolutely loathe to let them replace existing plastic molds due to cost, so its unlikely we'll see new Crisis Suits for another five years, maybe longer.

Hodge-Podge says: Run with the Devil, Shout Satan's Might. Deathtongue! Deathtongue! The Beast arises tonight!
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





I'd be interested to know how the CoD releases have traded.

While you can get cheaper urban kits, and most clubs have a good lot of home-made terrain, the quality of the CoD kits is quite spectacular. Certainly I'll be using a plenty of it for an urban board next, and my feeling is that it'll be a good solid and reliable earner for GW.


 

Hodge-Podge says: Run with the Devil, Shout Satan's Might. Deathtongue! Deathtongue! The Beast arises tonight!
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Posted By syr8766 on 07/25/2006 2:05 PM

I'm trying to remember where I saw it (TMP maybe?), but I did see an article on how the Independant comics and gaming stores are doing. As I recall, the answer was 'poorly', with a goodly number of stores shuttering, and the blame was placed on internet sales.

Anecdotally, I hear about gaming stores around the US either dropping product or evaporating. It's the rare store that continues to do well, these days, and usually it's predicated on having the right balance of diverse product.

EDIT: this might be it: talks about the industry as a whole:   While there were some success stories such as Privateer's War Machine, ICv2 estimates that the category declined about 25% in 2005.http://www.icv2.com/articles/home/8407.html">http://www.icv2.com/articles/home/8407.html

Highlights from the article:

" target=_blank sales of SPAN img] ?< yes[ mso-spacerun: miniatures.

Also:

<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O ></O >[/b]

< img]            1[ mso-tab-count:>1.  Pirates of the Spanish Main<O ></O >

            2.< img]            1[ mso-tab-count:>3.  Star Wars CMG<O ></O >

            4.< img]            1[ mso-tab-count:>5.  [i]MechWarrior" < EM>


That is indeed bad, but unfortunately supports my theory of a declining sector overall. Actually GW's sales decline is less than that industry figure YOY, which means they are treading water better than the industry itself (course the issue of how you define miniatures).  This would not be a sector to invest in.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Master Sergeant





torgoch said:
I still think they lack a buy-in game; something like 40K 'warbands' or 'confrontation' has to come eventually.
They have a buy-in game. Several, in fact. They just don't support them. At all. Ever.

Green Blow Fly wrote:Arseholes need to be kept in check. They do exist and play 40k.

Ironically, they do. So do cheats. 
   
Made in us
Foul Dwimmerlaik





Minneapolis, MN

Yay for "pirates of the spanish main"!

I hate GW.

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





I still think they lack a buy-in game; something like 40K 'warbands' or 'confrontation' has to come eventually.

They have a buy-in game. Several, in fact. They just don't support them. At all. Ever.

True, and true.

I don't understand why GW doesn't spit out an official warbands-type rulebook for 40k or WHFB. it seems right up their alley - a way to repackage existing stuff at minimal cost to drive more sales. Roll it out with a few premium character figures at $15 a pop...

I am 50 Jesus bears. 
   
Made in us
Clousseau





Wilmington DE

Well, to be fair, I thought Battle for Macragge and the new WHFB Dwarves/Gobbos sets are supposed to be the intro level stuff. Granted, it's not as has been described/pined for on this thread, i.e. something closer to a warbands-style game with lots of independent character types, but they are cheap box sets that can be played on their own or used to expand into the larger game. Whether that's a good model or not is probably part of the question; plenty of people snapped up BFM just for the rulebook; will folks go ape for the FB equivalent with it's endless supply of dwarfy goodness, or would people be happier with 28mm Inquisitor, for example?

We seem to be in this interesting phase in the industry. On the one hand, there's all kinds of neat, exciting stuff out there--true diversity that probably hasn't been seen in years, if ever. There are literaly multiple companies supplying good quality figures and rules sets for almost every possible genre imaginable, in almost every scale imaginable, and these companies are easily accessed through the internet via discussion boards and online shops. At the same time, the industry is taking a royal beating, stores are closing all the time, and more of what's available in the stores is sort-of 'big box' product (CMGs, GW and/or other large(r) compaines). I'm a little alarmed to see what happens when these two trends come to a head.

Guinness: for those who are men of the cloth and football fans, but not necessarily in that order.

I think the lesson here is the best way to enjoy GW's games is to not use any of their rules.--Crimson Devil 
   
Made in nl
Fresh-Faced New User




I've been playing and reading WD for 16 years and would like to play the devil's advocate here.

I think GW is doing great!
Releases are getting better and better.
Codexes and army books look at the same time more generic (they all have the same build up). But the armies have become more and more specific (ogres are really ogres now, Nids are monsters not humans in strange forms etc.)

Releases are slower so you can get into an army much more.
Miniatures are getting better and better and cheaper (more multi part plastic kits with more and more bits : thank you LOTR for making that investment possible)
(and if I look at colonel Marbles reviews I see that GW has a lonely place at the top of good miniature mountain)

Wd used to be a mish mash of WFB, 40K, LOTR and lots of other games (epic, mordheim etc), and now it has become a solid magazine for the 3 core games.
(one month there is more LOTR, the other month more 40 K or WHFB)

Wd has it all now for me, Background, battle reports, nice mini pictures, players armies, conversions , painting guides and that each month! Love it!

Gw has invested in new computersteered techniques and what do people do: whine, whine whine.

No wonder sales drop. People are whining I want my Or(c)k)s but I'll have to wait until 2008.
Start a new army, buy, paint, play. This is a hobby and a lifestyle if you are posting on forums so go, enjoy the game.

And luckily there are some smart people out there who have commented and seen the bright side of things but to the others I'd like to say:
Stick to your miniatures and do not mess with economics

I'm currently painting 2500 p Tyranids, Building my Imperial City Boxed set and painting and building the 3rd company of the Imperial Fists
I'm out of money but the hobby will contnue, I invested!!

A game is an agreement between two or more people to have fun




   
Made in us
Using Inks and Washes






Posted By Bobske on 07/25/2006 4:54 PM
I've been playing and reading WD for 16 years and would like to play the devil's advocate here.

I think GW is doing great!
Releases are getting better and better.
Codexes and army books look at the same time more generic (they all have the same build up). But the armies have become more and more specific (ogres are really ogres now, Nids are monsters not humans in strange forms etc.)

Releases are slower so you can get into an army much more.
Miniatures are getting better and better and cheaper (more multi part plastic kits with more and more bits : thank you LOTR for making that investment possible)
(and if I look at colonel Marbles reviews I see that GW has a lonely place at the top of good miniature mountain)

Wd used to be a mish mash of WFB, 40K, LOTR and lots of other games (epic, mordheim etc), and now it has become a solid magazine for the 3 core games.
(one month there is more LOTR, the other month more 40 K or WHFB)

Wd has it all now for me, Background, battle reports, nice mini pictures, players armies, conversions , painting guides and that each month! Love it!

Gw has invested in new computersteered techniques and what do people do: whine, whine whine.

No wonder sales drop. People are whining I want my Or(c)k)s but I'll have to wait until 2008.
Start a new army, buy, paint, play. This is a hobby and a lifestyle if you are posting on forums so go, enjoy the game.

And luckily there are some smart people out there who have commented and seen the bright side of things but to the others I'd like to say:
Stick to your miniatures and do not mess with economics

I'm currently painting 2500 p Tyranids, Building my Imperial City Boxed set and painting and building the 3rd company of the Imperial Fists
I'm out of money but the hobby will contnue, I invested!!

A game is an agreement between two or more people to have fun





What a crock! Slow release are a benefit to the consumer - in what world is that? What it has done is helped (along with other reasons) people look at other game systems they would not have done.

Codices are uniformed - yes if you mean uniformedly full of holes and ambiguities accompanied by a badly constructed set of main rules that actually made me moved game systems (WFB, PP, POTSM + varients, hybrid and board games).

What was wrong with the "mish mash" of WD - so much more flavour - even an occasional BFG battle report.

The investment in computer technology is to make things cheaper as well as move advanced - seen prices come down lately?

If you think GW et al is a lifestyle I would respectfully suggest your priorities in life are definitely askew.

Two posts, wonder how many others like me are thinking GW employee.


2014 will be the year of zero GW purchases. Kneadite instead of GS, no paints or models. 2014 will be the year I finally make the move to military models and away from miniature games. 
   
Made in us
Maddening Mutant Boss of Chaos





Boston

Wow. Fullheadofhair, you're entitled to your opinion, but if Bobske feels differently, I think suggesting his "priorities in life are definitely askew" is out of line.

   
Made in us
Fireknife Shas'el





A bizarre array of focusing mirrors and lenses turning my phrases into even more accurate clones of

This thread just got me to look at Hellfury's GW ticker. Can anyone tell me why the stock price just shot up to the previous six-month high during the last week?

Now I wish I had some stock in GW...

WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS

2009, Year of the Dog
 
   
Made in us
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran




Baltimore, MD

My guess? The rumor that they're FINALLY going to put out a new 40k FAQ.

Proud owner of &


Play the game, not the rules.
 
   
Made in us
Using Inks and Washes






Posted By tinfoil on 07/25/2006 6:38 PM
Wow. Fullheadofhair, you're entitled to your opinion, but if Bobske feels differently, I think suggesting his "priorities in life are definitely askew" is out of line.


If some-one is willing to post an opinion of "This is a hobby and a lifestyle....." in a public domain as a counter to some elses critical opinion, I am entitled to say his priorities in life are askew as an answer to that.

2014 will be the year of zero GW purchases. Kneadite instead of GS, no paints or models. 2014 will be the year I finally make the move to military models and away from miniature games. 
   
Made in lk
Dakka Veteran





Sri Lanka

Dudes....

Stonefox is right. GW stock ain't just up, it's almost vertical.


   
Made in ca
Been Around the Block




Holy SHHEEEEET, someone just bought a wack load of GW stock, the price just went crazy. In less than 5 days it went from 260 to 325+.

   
Made in us
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran




Baltimore, MD

So... 1 person (or a few) bought a bunch of stock in a short period of time. Isn't that just about the definition of a bubble?


Besides, a 5 day rise does not a trend make.

Proud owner of &


Play the game, not the rules.
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Moore, Ok.

book cooking?

Enron II?

"But i'm more than just a little curious, how you're planning to go about making your amends, to the dead?" -The Noose-APC

"Little angel go away
Come again some other day
The devil has my ear today
I'll never hear a word you say" Weak and Powerless - APC

 
   
Made in us
Fireknife Shas'el





A bizarre array of focusing mirrors and lenses turning my phrases into even more accurate clones of

Yeah, the vertical rise is weird. Of course, we're all (if you're a good capitalist you shall lament! Commies can die) not buying stock but in a week's time that is just weird. Insider trading?

Or is it just from this new report and people are clamoring to buy up GW?

WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS

2009, Year of the Dog
 
   
Made in ca
Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot






Posted By fullheadofhair on 07/25/2006 5:13 PM


What a crock! Slow release are a benefit to the consumer - in what world is that? What it has done is helped (along with other reasons) people look at other game systems they would not have done.



I had to comment on this point

let's call it 5 years ago, people WERE in fact complaining that GW were bringing out too too many models, and that they were evil expecting their customers to buy so much in such a short period of time, how can we keep up, etc.

so, they decide to listen to their customers, space out the releases, and, imho, bring out better looking models. Nope, people are still complaining, now the releases are too slow. where is the middle ground? they still bring out more models, at a faster pace than ANYBODY ELSE. period.

hate them, that's fine, but they actually did what the consumer asked for in this case.



   
Made in us
Using Inks and Washes






That is a good point.

But, at the same time do you also remember that it was the time when many people were screaming for new units etc, especially units that were in the more newly released codices. That was approx 7 or 8 years ago.

I remember waiting and waiting for the furioso dreadnought, land raider. Dude, they could not release them fast enough. Then there was the massive release of the 'nids, and the bigger push into plastics - better chaos models etc. Stuff that many people had been clamering for - I, and many people I knew were quite happy.

What they did do was slow down the release of codices and army books, which in turn slowed down new releases.

Now, I have no objection to slowing down those army releases for better quality, but when they are released I want all the models released quickly so I can build the army list I want with the best looking models available. New stealth suits anyone? After all, doesn't Tom say feeding our habit is what GW does?

2014 will be the year of zero GW purchases. Kneadite instead of GS, no paints or models. 2014 will be the year I finally make the move to military models and away from miniature games. 
   
Made in ca
Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot






absolutely fair!
I wish
1- the eldar were all here now! (and that they wouldn't put too big a dent in my pocketbook)
2-that Jes Goodwin could sculpt everything!
that GW could make 90% of the people happy 90% of the time
   
Made in us
Dominating Dominatrix






Southeastern PA, USA

Regarding the stock price, the rise is likely due to two factors. Either the company's results were much better than what analysts predicted (usually the smart money knows, and things are already priced into the stock), and/or they think GW's bottomed out and are headed for a better year.

I didn't see this rise coming. I've been eyeing the stock for a little while and was just about to pull the trigger. I liked it a lot better at 260 than 325. But smaller stocks like GW are pretty volatile, so it's still liable to dip again even if the trend is up.


My World Eaters Showcase
View my Genestealer Cult! Article - Gallery - Blog
Best Appearance - GW Baltimore GT 2008, Colonial GT 2012

DQ:70+S++++G+M++++B++I+Pw40k90#+D++A+++/fWD66R++T(Ot)DM+++

 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

one buyer could jump the price. Again it has to be looked at the continuity through the entire year. But it is a very positive appreciation by the market.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block




Reading, UK

Posted By deitpike on 07/25/2006 10:51 PM
Posted By fullheadofhair on 07/25/2006 5:13 PM
It?s a fair point.  Part of the reason I no longer play the Vs CCG is that the company that made it released cards too fast. 



   
 
Forum Index » News & Rumors
Go to: