Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Great feedback yak!

After looking through the battle reports I see there were no missions that hurt a MSU style army such as marine razorback spam. In fact a few mjissions encouraged those types of lists. It's hard to beat an army of 16+ units without a standard killpoint mission.

DarthDiggler wrote:After looking through the battle reports I see there were no missions that hurt a MSU style army such as marine razorback spam. In fact a few mjissions encouraged those types of lists. It's hard to beat an army of 16+ units without a standard killpoint mission.

You may want to look harder.

Mission #1: Booby trapped objectives that cannot be held by an embarked unit. IE, get onto the objective and boom. If you have a 5 man unit, you could very well lose the whole thing. I lost a full troop choice (5 many wych squads) and Reece lost two - I don't know about anyone else out there.

Mission #5: Slaughter Style killpoints - Everyone ends up with mostly the same number of killpoints, and the percentage you kill of them is roughly what you ended up with. And given that in the FINAL GAME on the TOP TABLE....a small elite Chaos force beat an MSU Dark Eldar army....the tools are in the arsenal.

I railed in the previous pages here about mechanized spam and the fact that some missions rewarded it, but none really punished it. And honestly...its up to an opponent to punish an MSU player, not the TO. I know that I did. You know what a 5 man tac marine squad is to me? Something I don't need two wych squads to handle.

Mission one hurt 5+ save MSU, not marine MSU. That's not what I'm talking about and that doesn't hurt transport spam lists which is what I am talking about.

Slaughter KP might hurt transport spam lists. The rules as I have seen mention 1 kp per 100pts rounded down for certain units. Did this rounding down mean some units were worth zero kp in this mission? And if so then that mission does not affect transport spam lists since the basic razorback would be worth no kp.

How was it played Dash?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dashofpepper wrote:
I railed in the previous pages here about mechanized spam and the fact that some missions rewarded it, but none really punished it. And honestly...its up to an opponent to punish an MSU player, not the TO. I know that I did. You know what a 5 man tac marine squad is to me? Something I don't need two wych squads to handle.

Vanilla razorback spam is indeed tough to play against, but it itself has a tought time in a standard kp mission. If the last mission excluded heavy bolter razorbacks from giving a kp, then they become Gods in this 5 game tourney. I'm just trying to figure out why I never see a razorback spam list work well in the Chicagoland area and more and more I think it is because we regularly have standard kp missions. If that's not the case, then I want some razorbacks.

Every unit was worth at least 1 killpoint. Non-troop units worth more than 100 points rounded up in killpoints. Anything that cost less than 100 points rounded up to one.

Also - I have to be honest here - straight killpoint missions may be a deterrent to average players taking an MSU heavy list, but Hulksmash (Brad Townsend) runs SW razorback spam anyway, and he won all 5 of his games. And he pretty much wins every other game he plays. Everywhere. =p You just need to beat your opponent senseless with overwhelming force, or outwit them, or table them...

Playing an MSU army in a killpoint mission doesn't mean you just lose; I lost my last game to David Fay 9 killpoints to 8, and it was completely my fault; we only got through 3 turns, probably in part because I was honestly far too drunk for my own good by that point - who can say what would have happened if the game had continued? I was shooting incredibly poorly - every single penetrate was a shaken or stun, and some of my glances got immobilize, weapon destroyed results, so that at the end, he still had rhinos alive that were weaponless, empty, immobilized because I couldn't finish them. Etc.

I certainly took a loss, David was a fantastic opponent, but do I think he beat me simply because I had more killpoints in my army? No - it was a combination of his generalship, mine, and the dice.

@Yak-
Thanks for the feedback. It is appreciated, especially with the level of clinical detail you have presented. We are running a 4 round mini GT at the Bunker in June and we plan on trying what will be our next year missions there. Hulk is going to work with us on the missions and I plan on incorperating your feedback when we all sit down.

@Dash-
You were so sloshed I was supprised you even made it to bottom of 3! And Fay is a great guy to play and a very shrewd general. The top five were all guys of amazing skill and sportsmanship, honestly.

No don't get me wrong. I'm not saying KP are a lose to MSU transports. I'm just wondering about the experiences of others that's all. I've seen a Worldeaters army that had 3 vehicles with long range guns and Berzerkers pull out a minor win against an all DE raider spam list. I know the game is played by people and dice are involved. I'm just asking questions about the conditions to get a better idea on how those armies played.

@yakface: that post should become an article on how to create balanced missions. It really would be a waste to only have that post here.

Phazael wrote:

@Dash-
You were so sloshed I was supprised you even made it to bottom of 3! And Fay is a great guy to play and a very shrewd general. The top five were all guys of amazing skill and sportsmanship, honestly.

I'm incredibly competitive - when I'm getting beaten, it upsets me - or at least influences my mood, as I know it does for many others. I actually had started getting sloshed because I thought I was about to face off against Brad, who I *know* can monkey-beat me, and I was at least going to be brazenly drunk for the beating so it hurt less.

I was overjoyed to not be paired up against him, but having had a good start on the drinking, just decided to continue until the bottle was empty. David, if you post here - have you ever beaten on someone who was as cheerful to get beaten on as I was? =p It was the booze.

I vaguely remember the game ending, and I was all surprised because we were only on turn 3...and Brad was like, "HOW ARE YOU NOT DONE YET?!?" We tallied up kill points and I had lost, and was going to get to drinking in earnest but the bottle was empty. I remember writing down my name and address, and getting stuff (which Hulksmash will put to good use) and I think I tried telling everyone that it was great to meet them when I came up to get my prizes, but I don't remember if anything coherent came out of my mouth or not.

Its fuzzy after that until we got to Medieval Times, where Brad and I (and our wives) had the Royalty package and front row seats to scream at the top of our lungs for the green knight. Who was awesome. Awesomesauce.

Sorry for rambling, was AWESOME to meet my idols. Hulksmash, Reecius, Blackmoor, Manimal, Yakface - call me easily impressed if you need to. =p

@Phazeal
Thanks, buddy! Everyone there was a cool guy and classy. I had a great time and I will for sure bring more of the SD crowd next time. Some of my buddies would have come if they had known that Dave and Geoff and I were going, but I went so last minute I didn't have time to rally the troops.

San Diego represented well though, going 1,2, and 4. If we had Shane and Pat we could be really kicking booty!

@Dash
It was good to meet you too, bortha. You were shithoused though in the last game! Haha, but you came 3,000 miles to kicked ass and you did. When I saw you matched up with Dave, I knew I had a chance to win it, because Dave is such a good player, but it was not meant to be.

I had a great weekend and look forward to next year. I think everyone else felt the same way.

Next year, with some open gaming, we can all hang out and shoot the bull after words.

It was nice to meet/play against you Dash.

Sorry that I was like a zombie on Saturday. I worked double shifts so I could take Friday off, and I had a long drive and no sleep the night before, so the first day I was tore up.

My armies weakness is Dark Eldar, and who knew that I keep on running into them? The army I am running has only lost twice, and it was both to DE. You can go years and not play them, and yet I keep on finding ways to lose to them.

The funny thing over the weekend was that I played against 3 people that I have never played against before, and 2 of them afterwords said that I was not as bad to play against as they have heard...um thanks?

Blackmoor -

Tiredness happens. And if I may speak candidly, the reputation that you have is that you score people very badly for sportsmanship, in trends that fly in the face of the scores your opponents get from other players. Thus at the end of our game, I wanted to know if you had a good game or not, because I was concerned about your reputation for scoring your opponents.

I enjoyed our game, you laughed at my jokes, you made a couple yourself, and we didn't have any rules issues.

Don't feel too bad, in some places I've got an unearned reputation that I have to fight against as well.

Looking forward to entering next year. Getting back into the tourney scene after so many years can only be easier with fellow Dakkaites.

Had a good time though.

@Yakface
That was an excellent post, I just read it and I have to say you need to sticky those point sin this forum.

Those are EXCELLENT, and clearly logical points that would be a great benefit to any TO. I completely agree with all of your points.

@Combatmedic
Did we meet, man? I don't remember meeting anyone with your handle.

I think yakface hit the nail on the head so I don't have much to add

The one thing I thought of is that the missions need to balance the value of going first vs going second. $th edition was the go-first edition, and 5th is often considered the go-second edition, but in my opinion the best missions make it a difficult tactical choice as to whether or not you want to go first. I may be wrong, but I felt I wanted to go first in every mission except maybe mission 1.

Objectives tend to favor going second, kill points/victory points going first, and three of the missions had the primary as a kill point variant. Unfortunately one of the two primary objective missions also favored going first.

To me this looks like it's the most successful Indy GT run this year. Thats a big accomplishment. Seems like there was a great crowd of gamers there.

: )

G

And then Blackmoor said to me, "Huh. You're a lot younger than I thought you would be."

And then Hulksmash said, "Well, you *do* sound like a grumpy old man on the internet."

It's the avatar. Even that cat looks like a grump old man

How old are you Dash?

Ozymandias wrote:How old are you Dash?

25% grey, but still have all my hair?

Yah but you never had much to begin with.

G

Dashofpepper wrote:

Ozymandias wrote:How old are you Dash?

25% grey, but still have all my hair?

Hardy har har.

So basically older than a bread box?

Yeah guys....you got me.

In reality, I'm 13.

Dashofpepper wrote:Yeah guys....you got me.

In reality, I'm 13.

AHA!! I KNEW IT!! WIFE = MOM, CAPT. MORGAN = APPLE JUICE, AND HE WENT TO SOCAL SLAUGHTER WHILE HIS MOM WENT TO DISNEY!!!1!

GIVE BACK THE GOLDEN TICKET, CHARLIE!!!

Iron_Chaos_Brute wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:Yeah guys....you got me.

In reality, I'm 13.

AHA!! I KNEW IT!! WIFE = MOM, CAPT. MORGAN = APPLE JUICE, AND HE WENT TO SOCAL SLAUGHTER WHILE HIS MOM WENT TO DISNEY!!!1!

GIVE BACK THE GOLDEN TICKET, CHARLIE!!!

Over my pimply hand you'll get that Golden ticket back!

Dashofpepper wrote:

Iron_Chaos_Brute wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:Yeah guys....you got me.

In reality, I'm 13.

AHA!! I KNEW IT!! WIFE = MOM, CAPT. MORGAN = APPLE JUICE, AND HE WENT TO SOCAL SLAUGHTER WHILE HIS MOM WENT TO DISNEY!!!1!

GIVE BACK THE GOLDEN TICKET, CHARLIE!!!

Over my pimply hand you'll get that Golden ticket back!

I'll catch you even if I have to lose 200 pounds so I can fit through the basement door! Mom'll help me!

Well, I'm definitely looking forward to next year's SoCal Slaughter in Space III!!! However, I believe they're merging it with the Fantasy Tourney for several obvious reasons...which means I'll have to make a choice between Fantasy which is my main game, or 40K which is my entertainment...


But I did promise Dawson (Game #5 opponent) that'd I bring a ZERO comp list next year as would he, so we could face off in Game #1 for a re-match! And perhaps next year I'll get the honor of facing Dave, Reece, Charlie, etc...

Are the missions online anywhere?

should be linked elsewhere in this thread, but it is 11 pages...I think this is the final version

http://www.scgwl.com/downloads/SIS10.pdf

@theDarkGeneral
I would love to get a game in! That list you brought was nasty, but Guard can handle it, especially with Inquis support.

If half of what I have heard about you is true, you would be a very challenging opponent.

And we all love a challenge so I am sure it would be a great game.