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EDIT : Derp, sorry, wrong thread

-Loki- wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

-Loki- wrote: for free access to the whole range of paints

They let you paint with their paint for free? I'll just add this to the list of reasons I find it mind-boggling that people complain about this company.

Every FLGS I've found, if it has a paint station, lets you use it for free. GW stores do it for free, because they're GW stores. They all have from as far back as I can remember. I haven't found an FLGS yet with a paint station that doesn't let you use it for free.

This must be different in your region then.

Admittedly, I've only been to sixteen different gaming stores in my lifetime, but none of them had this.

The Seattle bunker used to do this but people tended to abuse the privilage. Paints wound up being left out with the pot opened all day, spills that people wouldn't clean up, pots getting "lost" so to speak, etc. They finally decided to put a stop to it altogether.

They still have the painting "station" where about six people or so can build/paint their stuff, but they require everyone to bring in their own supplies which I personally have no problem with.

Che-Vito wrote:

Sorry, we have guys at our FLGS like that, and I still would've insisted on giving their army the best chance possible.
Those people treating a WAAC player like crap, is only going to encourage him.

I wanted to roll the dice for him, I wasnt treating him like crap. We were just a bit P.O when he then continued on to quit and basically treat me poorly the rest of the time I talk to him.
Now that, is a reason to treat him like gak. If I attack him it is his own fault for treating me poorly when I wanted to help.

Fair enough then. I must say, having gone to GW twice in the last three days (I cherish this, going to GW is my Birthday present!), Imust say, apart from the ubiquitous 'Gamer Funk' ,and the crammed stores come half three and 'Warlord time' (under 16's playing LOTR and 40K - loud, shuddery...), Games workshop isn't too bad. I played to games against my friend there today. he's new to the hobby, picked it up really quick, and I had the best two games of my entire hobbying life. I cherish this. I dread when I am going to have a bad moment, because that will probably be when I stop going to GW...

Im just glad the GW I go to in Covent Garden Is rarely that crowded.

Funnoly enough;
Two young kids there. Both Play the warhams and the 40ks. I had a slight tick in my head saying that they would be some of the annoying "SPESS MARRIINNNEES" Styled kids. Dead wrong. They were nice and I generally had an intelligent conversation with them.

Breotan wrote:They still have the painting "station" where about six people or so can build/paint their stuff, but they require everyone to bring in their own supplies which I personally have no problem with.

^ That's what my LGS has, but now it's been refurbished to be 2/3 of the size (and it was already a small store)- now one gaming table and space for 6 painters (at a squeeze), when we normally have around 15 people in on weekends.
There are 2 demo tables, but I don't know why they shortened that to one and added a second normal table. It got shortened so they could have a stock room downstairs so the manager doesn't have to kick us all out when he needs to go upstairs to do stuff. No one's really happy about it- we'd rather have the extra space and tables and be kicked out occaisionally.

I even got told by the one decent staff at my local GW to bring my Tyranids in and paint them there, and they will show me some painting techniques using their stuff.

Lord of Timbraxia wrote:Fair enough then. I must say, having gone to GW twice in the last three days (I cherish this, going to GW is my Birthday present!), Imust say, apart from the ubiquitous 'Gamer Funk' ,and the crammed stores come half three and 'Warlord time' (under 16's playing LOTR and 40K - loud, shuddery...), Games workshop isn't too bad. I played to games against my friend there today. he's new to the hobby, picked it up really quick, and I had the best two games of my entire hobbying life. I cherish this. I dread when I am going to have a bad moment, because that will probably be when I stop going to GW...

I think you should cop out now and find an FLGS to replace GW. They should still carry the product, and in the long run, they will treat you better than GW will, and the wider selection of better-priced and higher quality tools will leave you with a bit more to spend on models. The moment I switched out of GW brand equipment, not only was I paying less for things, but I found it was lasting me longer too (I'm looking at you waste-oriented glue dispensors!)

I just remembered another horror story. well, more of a funny really.

I was at the GW and noticed one guy with a giant, and i mean bigger than texas sized, drink mug leaning on the table engrossed in what the GW staffers were doing. He hadn't moved at all for the 30 minutes I spent there, and was in the same position and pose when I left. When I came back a week later, man oh man was there a story to be told. The bugger had stayed there the whole day till closing, not moving his hand one nano-metre from where he planted it. Came to closing time, and finally, the staff had enough, and tell him "okay, closing time, time for you to go mate". Response? A rather shaky and nervouse "I can't". Turns out he'd found the superglue! The staffers all face-palm'd and offered the poor fellow a free table
Of course the end of this ordeal meant he'd drained all that drink and needed to go to the washroom something fierce.

What? Was he superglued to the chair or something?

Colonel-Commissar wrote:What? Was he superglued to the chair or something?

No, to the table I would say.

poda_t wrote:
I think you should cop out now and find an FLGS to replace GW. They should still carry the product, and in the long run, they will treat you better than GW will, and the wider selection of better-priced and higher quality tools will leave you with a bit more to spend on models. The moment I switched out of GW brand equipment, not only was I paying less for things, but I found it was lasting me longer too (I'm looking at you waste-oriented glue dispensors!)

I just remembered another horror story. well, more of a funny really.

I was at the GW and noticed one guy with a giant, and i mean bigger than texas sized, drink mug leaning on the table engrossed in what the GW staffers were doing. He hadn't moved at all for the 30 minutes I spent there, and was in the same position and pose when I left. When I came back a week later, man oh man was there a story to be told. The bugger had stayed there the whole day till closing, not moving his hand one nano-metre from where he planted it. Came to closing time, and finally, the staff had enough, and tell him "okay, closing time, time for you to go mate". Response? A rather shaky and nervouse "I can't". Turns out he'd found the superglue! The staffers all face-palm'd and offered the poor fellow a free table
Of course the end of this ordeal meant he'd drained all that drink and needed to go to the washroom something fierce.

That is funny, but England has that beat... One of the UK stores is actually the reason the super glue got put into those stupid pill bottles before the most recent re-packaging.

Kid came into the store, was acting like a spoiled little tool and grabed a pot of super glue. The staff told him to be very careful with it because the stuff will obviously bond to anything, especially skin!
Kid ignores the staff, starts pouring the glue onto the hobby station. The staff cut him off, tell him stop and get out. The kid dropped something on the floor, bent down to pick it up... and the side of his head hit the table... Yep, right on the giant puddle of super glue!

So, the staff had to call in the fire department who were forced to use a saw to cut out the chunk of table this kid was stuck to. Took him to the hospital where the doctors finally removed the table from the side of his head and the kid was left with moderate burns and permanent scaring as proof of his stupidity.

Any idea if they kept the table (minus the chunk)? I totally would have as a conversation piece.

And a bill to give his parents for the table I imagine.

Experiment 626 wrote:

poda_t wrote:
I think you should cop out now and find an FLGS to replace GW. They should still carry the product, and in the long run, they will treat you better than GW will, and the wider selection of better-priced and higher quality tools will leave you with a bit more to spend on models. The moment I switched out of GW brand equipment, not only was I paying less for things, but I found it was lasting me longer too (I'm looking at you waste-oriented glue dispensors!)

I just remembered another horror story. well, more of a funny really.

I was at the GW and noticed one guy with a giant, and i mean bigger than texas sized, drink mug leaning on the table engrossed in what the GW staffers were doing. He hadn't moved at all for the 30 minutes I spent there, and was in the same position and pose when I left. When I came back a week later, man oh man was there a story to be told. The bugger had stayed there the whole day till closing, not moving his hand one nano-metre from where he planted it. Came to closing time, and finally, the staff had enough, and tell him "okay, closing time, time for you to go mate". Response? A rather shaky and nervouse "I can't". Turns out he'd found the superglue! The staffers all face-palm'd and offered the poor fellow a free table
Of course the end of this ordeal meant he'd drained all that drink and needed to go to the washroom something fierce.

That is funny, but England has that beat... One of the UK stores is actually the reason the super glue got put into those stupid pill bottles before the most recent re-packaging.

Kid came into the store, was acting like a spoiled little tool and grabed a pot of super glue. The staff told him to be very careful with it because the stuff will obviously bond to anything, especially skin!
Kid ignores the staff, starts pouring the glue onto the hobby station. The staff cut him off, tell him stop and get out. The kid dropped something on the floor, bent down to pick it up... and the side of his head hit the table... Yep, right on the giant puddle of super glue!

So, the staff had to call in the fire department who were forced to use a saw to cut out the chunk of table this kid was stuck to. Took him to the hospital where the doctors finally removed the table from the side of his head and the kid was left with moderate burns and permanent scaring as proof of his stupidity.

And that is why this hobby ain't for kids

poda_t wrote:

Lord of Timbraxia wrote:Fair enough then. I must say, having gone to GW twice in the last three days (I cherish this, going to GW is my Birthday present!), Imust say, apart from the ubiquitous 'Gamer Funk' ,and the crammed stores come half three and 'Warlord time' (under 16's playing LOTR and 40K - loud, shuddery...), Games workshop isn't too bad. I played to games against my friend there today. he's new to the hobby, picked it up really quick, and I had the best two games of my entire hobbying life. I cherish this. I dread when I am going to have a bad moment, because that will probably be when I stop going to GW...

I think you should cop out now and find an FLGS to replace GW. They should still carry the product, and in the long run, they will treat you better than GW will, and the wider selection of better-priced and higher quality tools will leave you with a bit more to spend on models. The moment I switched out of GW brand equipment, not only was I paying less for things, but I found it was lasting me longer too (I'm looking at you waste-oriented glue dispensors!)

Easier said than done in the UK (where Lord of Timbraxia's Dakka flag says he is). GW has pretty much got high street dominance in the UK with there being very few LGS's and fewer still that have ample playing facilities (you can probably count those on 1 hand- Maelstrom and Wayland being the two most prominent).

Cthululs Spy wrote:
And this is why the hobby ain't for kids

As a teenage gamer I take offence to this. I take the hobby very seriously. I love the fluff, I love playing, three of my best friends are also serious gamers. We aren't idiots. My only problem with the hobby is my lack of willpower to paint.

I do remember one time though when I went to my first beginners game at my local games workshop (Eastbourne). This was about a year ago. Hordes of ten-year-olds running round a cramped table, in an Apocalypse-level game (everyone only had a small number of units, but there were a good ten players!!) I was about the only one who took it seriously. It didn't help that the manager and me did NOT get along.

It's got a lot better since then. There's a new, better manager, who I get on well with. The beginners lessons are more structured (well, the advanced beginners anyway. I'm told they still get huge crowds - I graduated!!) The old manager disappeared. That's my horror story: the young gamers you SHOULD fear!!

Colonel-Commissar wrote:

Cthululs Spy wrote:
And this is why the hobby ain't for kids

As a teenage gamer I take offence to this. I take the hobby very seriously. I love the fluff, I love playing, three of my best friends are also serious gamers. We aren't idiots. My only problem with the hobby is my lack of willpower to paint.

I do remember one time though when I went to my first beginners game at my local games workshop (Eastbourne). This was about a year ago. Hordes of ten-year-olds running round a cramped table, in an Apocalypse-level game (everyone only had a small number of units, but there were a good ten players!!) I was about the only one who took it seriously. It didn't help that the manager and me did NOT get along.

It's got a lot better since then. There's a new, better manager, who I get on well with. The beginners lessons are more structured (well, the advanced beginners anyway. I'm told they still get huge crowds - I graduated!!) The old manager disappeared. That's my horror story: the young gamers you SHOULD fear!!

teenage =/= kids
I mean anyone who hasn't hit puberty yet.
Hell, I started when I was 14

I'm nearly 14. Soz, I thought you were stereotyping!!

Seriously, anyone below Senior School is too young for this hobby. Why, oh why did I get my little brother involved?!!

I started when I was 10 or 11, but then I wanted to learn, my problem was there weren't many who wanted to help.

I read the rulebook, but at the time apparently, just because I was young and I asked questions about fluff / rules, I was annoying, especially to the staff at the local GW it seemed.

You'd have thought they'd be happy about a youngster who wanted to learn how to play properly and build a good couple of thousand points of DE, instead at the time they put me off going in-store. I learnt through guess work and bought second hand / through a local toyshop instead - only playing with the half dozen friends I knew that collected, and rarely gave any patronage to GW.

These days I know the rules and play vets night at the local GW, but if anything goes sour there's a flgs that frankly has more tables and a better atmosphere - but it's another 10-15 minutes out and up 2 flights of stairs, so convenience means most vets go to GW.

All the vets really like me at Eastbourne because I know the answer to just about every fluff question ever!!

Colonel-Commissar wrote:I'm nearly 14. Soz, I thought you were stereotyping!!

Seriously, anyone below Senior School is too young for this hobby. Why, oh why did I get my little brother involved?!!

so as a former shirt, AND an adult, I have to tell you, its not a personal attack when we say that kids shouldn't play games.

stereotypes exist, usually for good reason. you can't tell me that when you look at the majority of gamers in your age bracket, that they aren't irresponsible, young, and naive.

you are possibly in the minority (but I do not know you personally so please do not take that as an attack, just not assuming one way or the other).

generally teenagers tend to be rather moodish and so it becomes a gamble to game with them.

also, having dealt with youth in a leadership position, I find it very uncomfortable and difficult to have friends that are young enough to be my child, without the look of shame or disgust from other adults.

so its very hard to create that bond of mentorship in a safe and healthy way.

I don't think its that most gamers dislike teenagers old children, but there is a certain set of societal boundaries that are hard to cross.

thats just my $.02, YMMV.

Kids shouldn't be using super glue IMO, it's not child friendly at all, accidents can be quite unpleasant.

I started Space Hulk aged about 8 as it happens, but never played in shops. I felt too young... and then suddenly started to feel too old.

Ovion wrote:I started when I was 10 or 11, but then I wanted to learn, my problem was there weren't many who wanted to help.

I read the rulebook, but at the time apparently, just because I was young and I asked questions about fluff / rules, I was annoying, especially to the staff at the local GW it seemed.

You'd have thought they'd be happy about a youngster who wanted to learn how to play properly and build a good couple of thousand points of DE, instead at the time they put me off going in-store. I learnt through guess work and bought second hand / through a local toyshop instead - only playing with the half dozen friends I knew that collected, and rarely gave any patronage to GW.

These days I know the rules and play vets night at the local GW, but if anything goes sour there's a flgs that frankly has more tables and a better atmosphere - but it's another 10-15 minutes out and up 2 flights of stairs, so convenience means most vets go to GW.

Why?
1. they want to sell you minis. Why do they care if you learn to play properly?
2. at the time you were a child. You probably WERE annoying, especially when you consider the average age of a redshirt is what? 18-22? Yes its their job, but unless they were go at their job they probably sucked at that too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rimmy wrote:

Colonel-Commissar wrote:I'm nearly 14. Soz, I thought you were stereotyping!!

Seriously, anyone below Senior School is too young for this hobby. Why, oh why did I get my little brother involved?!!

so as a former shirt, AND an adult, I have to tell you, its not a personal attack when we say that kids shouldn't play games.

stereotypes exist, usually for good reason. you can't tell me that when you look at the majority of gamers in your age bracket, that they aren't irresponsible, young, and naive.

you are possibly in the minority (but I do not know you personally so please do not take that as an attack, just not assuming one way or the other).

generally teenagers tend to be rather moodish and so it becomes a gamble to game with them.

also, having dealt with youth in a leadership position, I find it very uncomfortable and difficult to have friends that are young enough to be my child, without the look of shame or disgust from other adults.

so its very hard to create that bond of mentorship in a safe and healthy way.

I don't think its that most gamers dislike teenagers old children, but there is a certain set of societal boundaries that are hard to cross.

thats just my $.02, YMMV.

Indeed, in the current climate, you're looked upon as "that sweaty guy by the keg" who has social issues (at best). Mentorships (which is what that really is) are much more rare at that age and difference, despite movie nonsense.

Rimmy wrote:

Colonel-Commissar wrote:I'm nearly 14. Soz, I thought you were stereotyping!!

Seriously, anyone below Senior School is too young for this hobby. Why, oh why did I get my little brother involved?!!

so as a former shirt, AND an adult, I have to tell you, its not a personal attack when we say that kids shouldn't play games.

stereotypes exist, usually for good reason. you can't tell me that when you look at the majority of gamers in your age bracket, that they aren't irresponsible, young, and naive.

you are possibly in the minority (but I do not know you personally so please do not take that as an attack, just not assuming one way or the other).

generally teenagers tend to be rather moodish and so it becomes a gamble to game with them.

also, having dealt with youth in a leadership position, I find it very uncomfortable and difficult to have friends that are young enough to be my child, without the look of shame or disgust from other adults.

so its very hard to create that bond of mentorship in a safe and healthy way.

I don't think its that most gamers dislike teenagers old children, but there is a certain set of societal boundaries that are hard to cross.

thats just my $.02, YMMV.

All too true.

The Academy program for example while a 'great in theory' idea was just so horrible to actually make work in practice. Now at the time we were made to sell/run the event, the ages of our staff were mid to late 20's, so typically we got alot of nasty looks from passers-by who thought it was 'unhealthy' to see us older guys/girl sitting down beside a young kid. Of corse, anyone who came into the store would (hopefully) get the proper context of what we were doing and stop automatically thinking terrible things were happening!

Most of the time though, we'd be drowning under 'oodles of 8-11 year olds who had the collective attention span of an ADD kitten on catnip-laced crack! Teaching was almost impossible, and it just led to us wasting our time with kids who would inevitably drop the hobby within a few months once the newest instant gratification button-mashing video game came out.
When you consider that an Academy night would force us to have an additional staff member working to cover the floor, possibly take-up a gaming table thus reducing the likelyhood of spontanious sales from people in playing games AND cost us a 'free' box of marines once the kids finished the programe, you started to realise just how bad a deal it was for us because it cost us big bucks in the end!
And honestly, for every Academy grad who stuck with it and stayed in the hobby, you'd have at least 3-5 kids who did their lessons, got their free tactical squad and then quite a couple weeks latter.

For the average kid nowadays, you really like them to be around that 11-12+ age. Most kids 10 and under just don't give a damn about commiting to something like a hobby or have any kind of appreciation for the cost their parents are putting out.
You do get those odd kids in that 7-10 bracket, but they're honestly the exception in this case.

Frazzled wrote:

Ovion wrote:I started when I was 10 or 11, but then I wanted to learn, my problem was there weren't many who wanted to help.

I read the rulebook, but at the time apparently, just because I was young and I asked questions about fluff / rules, I was annoying, especially to the staff at the local GW it seemed.

You'd have thought they'd be happy about a youngster who wanted to learn how to play properly and build a good couple of thousand points of DE, instead at the time they put me off going in-store. I learnt through guess work and bought second hand / through a local toyshop instead - only playing with the half dozen friends I knew that collected, and rarely gave any patronage to GW.

These days I know the rules and play vets night at the local GW, but if anything goes sour there's a flgs that frankly has more tables and a better atmosphere - but it's another 10-15 minutes out and up 2 flights of stairs, so convenience means most vets go to GW.

Why?
1. they want to sell you minis. Why do they care if you learn to play properly?
2. at the time you were a child. You probably WERE annoying, especially when you consider the average age of a redshirt is what? 18-22? Yes its their job, but unless they were go at their job they probably sucked at that too.

My point was, I would ask a question and they would snub me off, invaribly I was asking about rules or fluff to learn what things did so I could decide what I was going to buy next, it was down to me what I bought with my pocket money + cash I earned working in my dads store, so it was purely my choice and even if it wasn't solely down to me it would be in their interest to encourage me so I want it enough to get more and convince my parents to pay..

Instead of answering my questions, they blew me off so I didn't buy from them. My dad owned a supermarket, I grew up in retail I knew how to intereact with people and I knew when people were being donkey-caves.

I've also been informed I was a rather pleasant child and am way more annoying now than I ever was as a kid

And ultimately I ended up with a good 5-7000 points of dark eldar, a few hundred points in chaos and another 2-3000 points of Necrons, of which I only bought the starter kit (good old 3rd ed DE vs marines), a few paints and some bits I couldn't get in my local store, such as the metal Sybarites and Dark Lance Warriors.

Ovion wrote:I started when I was 10 or 11, but then I wanted to learn, my problem was there weren't many who wanted to help.

I read the rulebook, but at the time apparently, just because I was young and I asked questions about fluff / rules, I was annoying, especially to the staff at the local GW it seemed.

Same here really, except we only had (and have) one staff member. He was a great guy, all enthusiastic most of the time, and when he was having a rough day he always but a happy face on and did his job. He was probably the main reason I carried on doing warhammer, because most of the regulars at the time were very judgemental of me and barely spoke to me until about 3 months later when they realised I wasn't annoying or ignorant, just a tad naive but willing to learn.

Hows this. This hobby isn't for idiots? That demographic spreads wonderfully across all ages and genders.

If you spread superglue all over someone elses property and then get yourself stuck in it, you're an idiot.
If you can;t bring liquid nourishment into a gaming situation without spilling it all over the table, you're an idiot.
If you think "that's Stupid" can be replaced with "That's Gay", you're an idiot.

AegisGrimm wrote:Hows this. This hobby isn't for idiots? That demographic spreads wonderfully across all ages and genders.

If you spread superglue all over someone elses property and then get yourself stuck in it, you're an idiot.
If you can;t bring liquid nourishment into a gaming situation without spilling it all over the table, you're an idiot.
If you think "that's Stupid" can be replaced with "That's Gay", you're an idiot.

And young children appear to meet all of these criteria.

I always get annoyed and correct people when they say that someone or something is "gay" as an insult. It's immature, offensive and downright moronic.
/rant