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I can never forgive Ward for allying my beloved Blood Angels with the xeno scum Necrons.

People do have valid reasons for disliking Ward's work. Whether they regularly get their asses kicked by his Grey Knights, or play a non-vanilla "vanilla" marine list and resent being told that they're just "wannabe Ultramarines", or they dislike the necron/blood angel fistbump (BURN IN HELL FOR THAT MATT WARD!), the complaints are, at their core, valid complaints.

The fact that the fault can be soundly laid at the foot of GW for poor IP control is secondary.

However, this being the internet, there is no such thing as a "mild distaste" or other form of moderate emotion - we either think things are OMG THE BEST THING EVAR!!!11 or we think THIS SUCKS AND IS THE EPITOME OF FAIL (AND MATT WARD SHOULD BURN IN HELL FOREVER FOR THE BA/NECRON ALLIANCE!)

*ahem*

So yeah. Moderate feelings don't exist on the internet. If there was a scale from 1-10, with 1 being "love it, it's the best thing since the PYRAMIDS" and 10 being "I'd rather have my eyelids pulled off with rusty pliers" you'll only ever see answers consisting of 1, or 10. Nobody's ever going to pick 2-9. Unless this phenomenon has just been pointed out to them, in which case they'll rush to claim "but I WILL!"

Macok wrote:
According to the internet everything he does is bad and if something is bad he has a monopoly for it.
No matter what he writes, how he writes it, how interesting his rules are, EVERYTHING is bad because some parts are bad. I see this directly applied to Z's post. His post and reasoning wasn't addressed in for what it was but what the author wrote earlier.

This might blow your mind, but "the internet" is not composed of one person or opinion, and there is no consensus on the internet.

Here's the really crazy thing: your comment is now part of the internet.

Chesh wrote:I can never forgive Ward for allying my beloved Blood Angels with the xeno scum Necrons.

Despite the fact it's a reasonable thing to have happened?

NEVER FORGET! NEVER FORGIVE! BURN IN HELL MATT WARD!

I do hope that you all are noticing the sarcasm in my posts here. At least, outside the comment about the internet tending to the extremes - that one's true, and it's a phenomenon that has sociologists completely baffled.

Easy to explain my good man. It's extreme cos noone can punch you in the face here.


Nom

Even otherwise normal, rational people (who show no tendency toward extremism) tend to the extremes on the internet.

One of the most virulent people I've ever seen online was a good friend of mine ... and a catholic bishop. He was actually one of the most amazing people I've ever met - Jesuit scholar, Rosicrucian and he had an encyclopedic knowledge of all things history, as well as an amazing sense of humor. But get him behind a computer keyboard and he was hell in text.

Hyperbole and extremism? On the internet? Next you will be telling me that I can access pornographic materials on it. Pull the other one, it has bells on.

Chesh wrote:I can never forgive Ward for allying my beloved Blood Angels with the xeno scum Necrons.

See it is commits like this I simply can not understand. SM have allied with Xeno's many times in the history of the IoM, its not like it is an unheard of thing in the lest. Yet because Matt Ward wrote about it ( Being about the 20th GW author to do so) it is all his fault..damn him. Its one of those things its bad because he wrote it,simple as that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Atma01 wrote:On the internet? Next you will be telling me that I can access pornographic materials on it.

Wait! We..Have..porn..on the internet

What's this porn thing your on about? Is it something to with cheese

Nom

Of curse it's to do with cheese, never heard of the phrase 'Cheese Porn' before?

Next you'll be telling me that slowly but surely, Chaos is begin to grow ¬.¬

Hunterindarkness wrote:See it is commits like this I simply can not understand. SM have allied with Xeno's many times in the history of the IoM, its not like it is an unheard of thing in the lest. Yet because Matt Ward wrote about it ( Being about the 20th GW author to do so) it is all his fault..damn him. Its one of those things its bad because he wrote it,simple as that.

Yeah that stance is a bit silly given the old 2nd Ed fluff. For me it isn't so much an issue that they had a temporary alliance with a xeno, or even just non-aggression pact depending on how you read it, its more who it was with given it was before the NewCron fluff. If it was some Ork Blood Axe commandos, and in the end the BAs had to slaughter them after the fight but felt bad for it given their honor code, no worries. But with the soulless OldCrons, not really my thing. But regardless of the fluff tastes I do LOVE the art that people made from it. Including the fist bump, and the one using the ~nyaaan meme with Lolicron asking if she can help fight the Nids, the BA saying 'Sure why not', and the final panel is her riding around on his shoulders firing a gauss blaster while he wields his plasma pistol and saying 'Whatever this is fun too' or something. Love Joe P's artwork of a Codex Necron book plowing Necron-tan from behind and saying "Stop crying or I'll kill your Gods! Damn Grey Knights never shut up either.'. Makes me LOL every time.

I will say this, if it wasn't for Ward I wouldn't have some of my favorite /tg/ meme pictures. So I do begrudgingly have to say that I am thankful for him in that aspect at least.

But sorry for getting side tracked there. Lets get back to the discussion about porn.

I always wondered what Jurgen's favorite kind was. I mean Cain makes a point about him liking the stuff, but never dishes the dirt.

And hypothetically, if made for morale reasons, would porn depicting Sororitas actually be considered heresy provided it wasn't too over the top? Or what about pin-ups? These are questions that must be answered for the betterment of the Imperium at large!

Atma01 wrote:
For me it isn't so much an issue that they had a temporary alliance with a xeno, or even just non-aggression pact depending on how you read it, its more who it was with given it was before the NewCron fluff. If it was some Ork Blood Axe commandos, and in the end the BAs had to slaughter them after the fight but felt bad for it given their honor code, no worries. But with the soulless OldCrons, not really my thing.

Except it wasn't the "soulless OldCrons". It was the "NewCrons" as you put it, and a "preview" of the direction Necrons were going for their fluff.

We had indications of the new direction for Necrons from C: Blood Angels and the novels "Fall of Damnos" and "Dead Men Walking".

Ruining the Necrons is a pretty definitive reason for me, though making the GK's so overpowered doesn't help either. The BA alliance was Ward's fault as well and Fall of Damnos painted the Necrons as more self-aware (something I have little problem with) but didn't ruin everything they were.

I mean yes he couldn't have done all of these decisions by himself but I doubt it would be as bad as they were had he not headed the project. As someone more invested in the universe of 40k then the game I guess I have a bigger beef with Ward then most players, though I do think his history of making Imperial armies overpowered is another issue.

As for "all" the Ward hate, while he's fairly despised in mainstream circles that know of his endeavors, dakka is a very pro-Ward place and indeed polls/threads like these have most members supporting him.

See I am ok with "runing the necrons" as a vaild reason as it is taste. I myself Like the new Necrons far better but it is simply taste.

However the BA/Necron thing simply is not as it is a fairly common thing SM do all the freaking time by dozens of writers. To put that common trope on Ward is simply a case of bandwagon hate simply because he wrote it.

Sm team up with Xenos pretty much all the time.

I don't really hate Matt Ward, its just the massive amount of fanboyism he puts into codexes. Lets look at the Space Marine Codex, with the Ultramarines as the poster boy:

"He (Guilliman) succeeded in liberating more worlds during the great crusade more then any other primarch, and the worlds he brought within the Imperium were benefit to from his orginizational skills and passion for efficient government"
Holy F_ck, did he also shoot rainbows out of his ass and exhale SDT's?

"Ultramar is an empire with little unrest and no rebellion"
Because being ruled by an military regime of superhuman rulers is great. After all, 40's Germany prospered under military rule.

And tons more, but I'm too lazy to find them all. The point is, Matt Ward completely makes the Ultramarines like some kind of Gods, which pretty much pisses a lot of people off who plays different chapters.

BattleGoat74 wrote:I don't really hate Matt Ward, its just the massive amount of fanboyism he puts into codexes. Lets look at the Space Marine Codex, with the Ultramarines as the poster boy:

"He (Guilliman) succeeded in liberating more worlds during the great crusade more then any other primarch, and the worlds he brought within the Imperium were benefit to from his orginizational skills and passion for efficient government"
Holy F_ck, did he also shoot rainbows out of his ass and exhale SDT's?

"Ultramar is an empire with little unrest and no rebellion"
Because being ruled by an military regime of superhuman rulers is great. After all, 40's Germany prospered under military rule.

And tons more, but I'm too lazy to find them all. The point is, Matt Ward completely makes the Ultramarines like some kind of Gods, which pretty much pisses a lot of people off who plays different chapters.

And then he does it for Necrons.
And Blood Angels.
And Grey Knights.


It's almost like he's trying to sell you on the army...

BattleGoat74 wrote:"He (Guilliman) succeeded in liberating more worlds during the great crusade more then any other primarch, and the worlds he brought within the Imperium were benefit to from his orginizational skills and passion for efficient government"

"Ultramar is an empire with little unrest and no rebellion"
.

You know those points are from earlier fluff and weren't really created by Ward, right?

pretre wrote:

BattleGoat74 wrote:"He (Guilliman) succeeded in liberating more worlds during the great crusade more then any other primarch, and the worlds he brought within the Imperium were benefit to from his orginizational skills and passion for efficient government"

"Ultramar is an empire with little unrest and no rebellion"
.

You know those points are from earlier fluff and weren't really created by Ward, right?

You beat me to that. But you know as Ward said it again in a book it had to all be his fault. Ultramarine fanboisum goes back to the founding of 40k from what I can see. They were the biggest baddest legion and set the footprint for evey other chapter ever. Every chapter uses the base footprint they created.

You guys really need to stop blaming that one on Ward, from what i can tell he may have even toned it down a few notches.

Hunterindarkness wrote:You guys really need to stop blaming that one on Ward, from what i can tell he may have even toned it down a few notches.

Yep, we can go back to the page counts, etc. in all previous C:SM books and Ward toned it way the stuff down. Heck the 2nd ed one was named Codex: Ultramarines.

If you're going to come to an opinion about someone, at least let it be informed by actual facts.

Chaos doesn't exist its only order don't you know anything

Nom

Yay 1k posts

nomsheep wrote:Chaos doesn't exist its only order don't you know anything

Nom

Yay 1k posts

Woot 1k posts, gratz.

The only real problem I have with Ward is his writing style.
Its just...bad. Like, terrible amateur fanfic bad.

pretre wrote:

Hunterindarkness wrote:You guys really need to stop blaming that one on Ward, from what i can tell he may have even toned it down a few notches.

Yep, we can go back to the page counts, etc. in all previous C:SM books and Ward toned it way the stuff down. Heck the 2nd ed one was named Codex: Ultramarines.

If you're going to come to an opinion about someone, at least let it be informed by actual facts.

I agree, it was facts I was looking for when i started this thread. I mean I do not mind stuff like "He ruined the necron fluff" as that is a valid opinion. But I have seen much that is only based on "Oh ward wrote it, so I must hate it"


Automatically Appended Next Post:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:The only real problem I have with Ward is his writing style.
Its just...bad. Like, terrible amateur fanfic bad.

Which is a pitty as he seems to have some really good ideas. However I agree most reads as a rough draft and not a finished and polished product.

If someone else polished and balnced his rules and fluff, ward would be liked more. but if ward suddenly stopped being hated, the haters would either go back to c.s.goto or move onto someone else.

You can never make everyone happy.

Nom

Hunterindarkness wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:The only real problem I have with Ward is his writing style.
Its just...bad. Like, terrible amateur fanfic bad.

Which is a pitty as he seems to have some really good ideas. However I agree most reads as a rough draft and not a finished and polished product.

As bad as his poor fanboy'ish writing style is and some of the more idiotic blanket statements he makes, I simply can't forgive him for the fact he single-handedly killed an entire edition of Fantasy with the gakking fartfest that is the Daemons of Chaos army book.
Hell, we thought Alessio was bad enough with how 6th ed Skaven turned out, Skryre SAD armies were utterly tame and awsomely fun to play against compared to the monstrosity that still is the Daemons book!

Sure the GK's book is probably the worst externally balanced book since the 3.5 Chaos codex, (warp quake, Purifyers & herp-derp grenades I'm looking at you guys!), but at least half the armies in 40k can still compete reasonably well. In 7th ed, you either played Daemons and roflstomped any non-daemons, played Dark Elves and could kinda compete, or else you simply got destroyed by Daemons.

nomsheep wrote:If someone else polished and balnced his rules and fluff, ward would be liked more. but if ward suddenly stopped being hated, the haters would either go back to c.s.goto or move onto someone else.

You can never make everyone happy.

Nom

I can already see he will never stop bing hated. As its a Meme and "trendy" to hate ward. Half the "reasons" I have seen in this thread more or less amount to "But It's Matt Ward! I have to hate him!" He is not great, yet really does not seem all that worse or worse at all then some of the others.

Hunterindarkness wrote:

nomsheep wrote:If someone else polished and balnced his rules and fluff, ward would be liked more. but if ward suddenly stopped being hated, the haters would either go back to c.s.goto or move onto someone else.

You can never make everyone happy.

Nom

I can already see he will never stop bing hated. As its a Meme and "trendy" to hate ward. Half the "reasons" I have seen in this thread more or less amount to "But It's Matt Ward! I have to hate him!" He is not great, yet really does not seem all that worse or worse at all then some of the others.

I still pray for Ward to write DA rules, at least they'd be unique to say the least.

Hunterindarkness wrote:

nomsheep wrote:If someone else polished and balnced his rules and fluff, ward would be liked more. but if ward suddenly stopped being hated, the haters would either go back to c.s.goto or move onto someone else.

You can never make everyone happy.

Nom

I can already see he will never stop bing hated. As its a Meme and "trendy" to hate ward. Half the "reasons" I have seen in this thread more or less amount to "But It's Matt Ward! I have to hate him!" He is not great, yet really does not seem all that worse or worse at all then some of the others.

He just had the misfortune to rewrite the poster boys of 40k.

Nom

There isn't a single argument in this thread that hasn't been done a thousand times over, so we're already up to our knees in glue. Besides, the question was why we hate Ward, and the SOB murder-thon is a valid reason

Stop for a moment, lets look at it from another angle...

Just because a thread has been a thousand times over doesn't mean everyone has seen it before, since there are so many hundreds of thousand of forum viewers.

The main question is, why are you in a thread that YOU have been in a thousand times over to tell people the thread has been done a thousand times over?

LunaHound wrote:

There isn't a single argument in this thread that hasn't been done a thousand times over, so we're already up to our knees in glue. Besides, the question was why we hate Ward, and the SOB murder-thon is a valid reason

Stop for a moment, lets look at it from another angle...

Just because a thread has been a thousand times over doesn't mean everyone has seen it before, since there are so many hundreds of thousand of forum viewers.

The main question is, why are you in a thread that YOU have been in a thousand times over to tell people the thread has been done a thousand times over?

Who exactly are you quoting there?