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Hunterindarkness wrote:I am newish to 40k, so I have not been around a very long time, I do not have many ol years of lore to call upon. I have noticed there is a massive amount of Hate for this guy, could anyone explain why? I mean I know he changed some stuff, but 40k is all over the place and is in need of consolidation. So just what did he do?

Because he take good written fluff and twist it in such a way that it doesn't make sense. He is also No.1 reason why people dislike Ultramarines.

Winterkit wrote:

Being a newb is fair enough as far as excuses go, but if you actually do try searching the forum next time, you'll find a wealth of threads dealing with this very topic (and the topic of how it came about) in depth.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/jforum.page?module=search&action=search&forum=69&match_type=all&sort_by=time&search_keywords=why+hate+matt+ward

No man, I was not using the new as an excuse as why I did not search. I simply did not think about it. The new was simply why I asked. I'll be sure and check the search nexttime however, thanks

Henners91 wrote:

jgehunter wrote:

Zweischneid wrote:He writes brilliant, innovative and diverse army lists with 0 regard to external balance, revived/scrapped some of the dullest, most pretentious fluff in 40K and killed alot of holy neckbeard cows.

Fixe'd for you

Who cares? Get him to write all the new codices and they'll balance one another out 40k's just getting overhauled and we're in a bit of an iffy transition period at the moment.

The owner of the codeci(?) that will be released after 4+ years of uphill battle against top dogs?
Several long years of imbalance and after that possibility of equal strength =/= balance.
I think you may be joking but still. That logic shows itself way too often on Dakka.

bombboy1252 wrote:

ShatteredBlade wrote:Well, in all honesty the WHFB people do have a right to complain about him.

I never played WHFB, so I'm not going to talk about the daemon book, because i know nothing about it....

Playing against 7th edition Daemons in Fantasy is basically like playing the following 40k senario; you're playing as Daemons vs GK's who get to auto-cover the entire table with warp quake and then can re-roll results of 'misplaced' by simply juggling your units between quake bubbles untill they're auto-destroyed.

And that's on a good day vs 7th ed Daemons!

No reason. Deep striking landraiders are the most sensible invention I've yet seen when perusing the codeces. Every unit over 20 points should have at least 6 special rules, minimum, and Mat Ward achieves this spectacularly. Who needs a statline when you can just jab USRs into MEQs?

The reason I dislike his codex's isn't the rules, as I don't think any of the codex's are overpowered. I regularly play against both necrons and GK, and while occasionally a challenge they're not OP. While they aren't balanced against the older codexes (codeci? codex's?...whatever) they are fairly well balanced against the 5th ed ones.
But here's the reason for my burning hatred... I'm into 40k for the gameplay, yes. But mainly the fluff. I love the stories, the background, the universe. And his work looks like the crap you read on a Tween fan-fic site, and not even one of the good ones. He's got some very interesting concepts. I can see what he was trying to do with so much of it... but he just fails miserably in it's execution. Draigo vs. Morty should have been more than 4 lines of text. The whole 'Draigo's been cursed thing' should have been fleshed out further so it doesn't look like he's a mary sue. I honestly think that if he were to be given an intern from a creative writing course things would get better. He gives them the ideas, they flesh it out.
The fact of the matter is that with less than a minute of thinking everyone I've talked to has been able to flesh it out better and made it more interesting. Turning it up to 11 is cool. Turning it up to 11, but it's nothing but the sound of fapping... not so much.

I don't mind his xenos codex writing at all. Except the flavor gets a little shallow at times. And those poor tyranids always have such a hard time finding balance when you've got someone writing for them that can't stop thinking about his hard-on for marines.

He has a lot of cute ideas, but they tend to becoming overwhelming when they all present themselves. Also you can really see it, and I feel it viscerally, when some idea he's trying to implement clearly wasn't thought through too well and is obviously slowed. Sometimes it's because it is frustrating, sometimes it is because it creates obvious and fatal flaws in a list, sometimes it is because the thing is too easy to compare to something else that is just better or worse.

I don't know why people are blaming Ward for Codex: Tyranids, because that was written by Robin Cruddace.

Brother Coa wrote:

Because he take good written fluff and twist it in such a way that it doesn't make sense. He is also No.1 reason why people dislike Ultramarines.

No some us are tired of seeing smurfs all over everything. Being a boy scout isn't too grimdark. Dark Angels, on the other hand...

This bit made me laugh in that 4chan write-up

While there is such a thing as a front-line general, the fact is that all of his heroes are like that, and ones that aren't seem both vague and unfocused. Furthermore, Matt does a lot of telling rather than showing. He tells us that Marneus Calgar is a patient tactical genius who considers the danger of an incoming projectile before taking cover. The image painted in the average person's mind in that case is one of Calgar analyzing a falling bomb until it strikes him in the head and explodes, at which point he decides, “Yes, that one was dangerous, I probably should have taken cover from that one".

Personally I thought Phil Kelly did a great job with the Dark Eldar - background, rules, everything. But, as has been said the Ward-written codex armies do seem to be very common, and if they are selling by the bucket load then most likely it means a lot more will be on the horizon. I'm not disappointed per se, but then I do have very low standards

Pacific wrote:
Personally I thought Phil Kelly did a great job with the Dark Eldar - background, rules, everything. But, as has been said the Ward-written codex armies do seem to be very common, and if they are selling by the bucket load then most likely it means a lot more will be on the horizon. I'm not disappointed per se, but then I do have very low standards

Ward codicies are popular because they're somewhat of an 'easy mode' to varrying degrees.
- Necrons are the 'newest & greatest thing' which opponents are still trying to figure out the best counters. But, 'crons have been handed a rather nasty av13 mech game, highly resiliant Troops in Immortals, (thus acting as a cop-out to avoid the squishier Warriors), decent combat units, and annoyingly OTT abilities with things like Cryptek spam (and the writhing worldscape shinanigans), or Scarab farming or Imhotek's goofiness, etc...

- GK's have an easy answer to pretty much anything. Better mech spam thanks to Fortitude, insanely cheap and ultra powerfull upgrades like psybolts on dreads and the rad/psycho grenades...
Not to mention, all three of their 'best' units can be easily taken as Troops through the use of special characters, with two of those units being horrifcally under-costed for what you get out of them!
Oh, and the book has multiple built-in "F -you Daemons!" buttons that are easy instant wins just to pick on those players for no real reason... (because getting army-wide prefered enemy & daemonbane rules wasn't nearly enough of an advantage!)

- BA's can quite litterally do anything vanilla marines can do, only 11 times better and/or more cost effectively. It's litterly the book of 'how many USRs can we jam into 1 army?!'

- Codex Marines I really like though and I'll give him props for a solid book. Sure there's a couple things that might be a bit OTT, (3++ storm shields being a bit too good imho), but overall it's hard to build as 'idiot-proof' a list as other books can.

In regards to the new Necron fluff I actually don't mind it. I think it personifies them and gives them a more three dimensional image. The idea that they were soulless and uncompromising was boring and is essentially what the nids are anyway.

I dislike Ward for his fluff. It is all flash and no substance. You just get told that someone is the best X ever, you don't actually see them demonstrating their abilities.

Reading this thread makes my brain hurt. It's like a black hole of stupid.

Pacific wrote:This bit made me laugh in that 4chan write-up

While there is such a thing as a front-line general, the fact is that all of his heroes are like that, and ones that aren't seem both vague and unfocused. Furthermore, Matt does a lot of telling rather than showing. He tells us that Marneus Calgar is a patient tactical genius who considers the danger of an incoming projectile before taking cover. The image painted in the average person's mind in that case is one of Calgar analyzing a falling bomb until it strikes him in the head and explodes, at which point he decides, “Yes, that one was dangerous, I probably should have taken cover from that one".

Personally I thought Phil Kelly did a great job with the Dark Eldar - background, rules, everything. But, as has been said the Ward-written codex armies do seem to be very common, and if they are selling by the bucket load then most likely it means a lot more will be on the horizon. I'm not disappointed per se, but then I do have very low standards

He also made Space wolves.

Each of the current codex writers has written at least one "Failure"

Space wolves (Kelly), Imperial guard (Cruddance), Gray Knights (Ward)

Though cruddance is the true worst, having written Tyranids, and Sisters of battle. None of them are redeeming.

You missed a word in the topic name.
I think it should say "Ok I have to ask, Why the Matt Ward *threads* hate?"

We should play the same game that we do on /tg/, which is 'Spot Mat Ward's posts!'. It assumes that Mat Ward is actually one of the posters defending his stuff, and we call him out and tell him to go to bed. Haven't managed to catch him yet, he is a sneaky little git.

For my 2 cents. I am sure that Mr.Ward is a decent enough bloke IRL. Lets not confuse his profession with his personality. Fair is fair and everyone gets excited at what they love. So hate his contributions if you must, but lets not hate the man. Much like C.S. Goto seems like a decent sort (especially since he acknowledged he doesn't really know enough to write properly for 40K), I hate his writing but wouldn't mind sharing a drink with the guy.

As to my biggest issue with Ward is his abuse of the old established and loved fluff, and his inability to think his actions through when it comes to what he says. One can argue that fluff tastes are subjective and that is a fair call. I deplore the GK codex, but I know those who swear by it. And then there is the whole Spiritual Liege thing that was literally pissing in the eye of many many many many many many fans by stating Ultramarines > X Chapter. This is partially a sign of GW's lack of quality control for WD as well. Since anyone who even has the slightest understanding of human nature would instantly see the waves that would make.

I can't really argue rules since I don't play anymore. And my understanding is that despite some terrible wording he does have some fun ideas and is bringing back some fun things like Jokero, so I do appreciate that aspect of him. But he seems very fanboy-ish in his approach to his job. So really I think if he just had a minder then things would be ok.

But he needs to be banned from ever speaking in WD again. For his own sake.

Then again he could just be a master troll. But I just don't see it.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
No some us are tired of seeing smurfs all over everything. Being a boy scout isn't too grimdark. Dark Angels, on the other hand...

There wasn't many Ultramarine haters until Ward said his famous words: "They are the best Space Marines in the universe, all other Space Marines wants to be just like them and recognize Calgar as their spiritual league." Imagine how players who played with other Marines feel when their Marines lost all their originality because of that...

PSYCANNONS

H.B.M.C. wrote:I should saved the text of my reply in the last of these threads.


I don't care about Ward's rules, I only care about the fluff. Ward's fluff is overblown, written like bad fan-fiction from a breathless 6-year-old. He has no appreciation for subtlety, and cannot construct a narrative that makes any logical sense. His fluff is some of the worst out there and I cannot stand it.

bmoleski wrote:The English language doesn't have words to accurately express my disdain for Mat Wards fluff writing. The phrase "vomit inducing " comes to mind, but that only scratches the surface. However it's his actual codex writing that makes me cringe the most. Starting with BA.....they can do everything C:SM can do, and more, for fewer points. Plus they are obviously superior to the 4th Ed. codices, especially in the realm of point costs. Simple as that. There is no way stuff like that should've been published IMO. Grey Knights......every stinking unit in that book is broken. When fighting GK, you're fighting an uphill battle from the moment you lay the first piece of terrain...unless of course you too are playing GK. They are the least balanced codex he's written for 40k (I'm not even gonna touch that Daemons debacle in Fantasy). Necrons.......actually I don't have anything bad to say about Necrons. I think he did a good job there, both in fluff, and in rules. Good job Mat.....probably the only time I'll ever say that.

squidhills wrote:

Henners91 wrote:
But C:SM is a great example of letting you customise your army; the chapter tactics on the ICs, who can be renamed and proxied to suit your given army are a great idea. You can alter your playstyle based on the heroes you take.

Furthermore, C:GK has a whole bunch of ways to play. Draigowing or Crowe and his Purifiers... plus a whole bunch of toys that can do the same job in different ways (Stormraven vs Land Raider).

You don't have those kinds of options in other codices... even more novel ones like Eldar.

I don't want to field a special character to be allowed to run my army the way I used to be able to. I want to be able to field my bloody army and kit out my HQ how I choose. I'm not happy with C:IG doing it, and I'm not happy with C:SM doing it. Your comment about Draigowing and Crowe illustrates my point. You don't build a GK army, you pick a special character. Ward didn't write the Eldar codex, so armies from it don't wind up getting named after their special character (as far as I know... I haven't heard anyone call their army "Eldrad-fest" or anything similar).

As for Ward himself, he ruined WHFB with Daemons (I've played against them, and if you look up "F**K YOU" in the dictionary, there's a Daemon list pictured next to it). He made GK so OP that they have become a byword for "Cheese" (Seriously, when people think the Space Wolves aren't as bad as you, you know you are the cheesiest cheese-factory in all Wisconsin). He wrote the most masturbatory fluff possible in C::[ULTRA]spacemarines. He used the word "uncorruptable" no less than fifty times in C:GK, without actually knowing what the word means (Bloodtide, anyone?). His codexes aren't ballanced agianst other codexes, even ones he wrote himself (seriously, he should at least be able to manage that... I can understand BA and GK overpowering Orks, Eldar, Tyranids, and Tau... but SM? Surely HE should know how his army is going to stack up against another army HE wrote). Oh, and much like a broken clock, he did the right thing with the Newcrons. That is the only good thing I will say about him: he made the Necrons into something that deserved an army list, as opposed to their being nothing more distinctive than any other mysterious race that feths with humanity.

Brother Coa wrote:

Hunterindarkness wrote:I am newish to 40k, so I have not been around a very long time, I do not have many ol years of lore to call upon. I have noticed there is a massive amount of Hate for this guy, could anyone explain why? I mean I know he changed some stuff, but 40k is all over the place and is in need of consolidation. So just what did he do?

Because he take good written fluff and twist it in such a way that it doesn't make sense. He is also No.1 reason why people dislike Ultramarines.

Durza wrote:I dislike Ward for his fluff. It is all flash and no substance. You just get told that someone is the best X ever, you don't actually see them demonstrating their abilities.

Brother Coa wrote:

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
No some us are tired of seeing smurfs all over everything. Being a boy scout isn't too grimdark. Dark Angels, on the other hand...

There wasn't many Ultramarine haters until Ward said his famous words: "They are the best Space Marines in the universe, all other Space Marines wants to be just like them and recognize Calgar as their spiritual league." Imagine how players who played with other Marines feel when their Marines lost all their originality because of that...

Smitty0305 wrote:PSYCANNONS

This.

Zweischneid wrote:... play with GW's plastic toy soldiers...

And there it is folks. The Dakka equivalent of Godwin's Law. Add this to the neckbeard comment from a page or two back and you can call this one cooked!

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Zweischneid wrote:... play with GW's plastic toy soldiers...

And there it is folks. The Dakka equivalent of Godwin's Law. Add this to the neckbeard comment from a page or two back and you can call this one cooked!

lolwut?

Atma01 wrote:We should play the same game that we do on /tg/, which is 'Spot Mat Ward's posts!'. It assumes that Mat Ward is actually one of the posters defending his stuff, and we call him out and tell him to go to bed. Haven't managed to catch him yet, he is a sneaky little git.

Zweischneid wrote:He writes brilliant, innovative and diverse army lists, revived/scrapped some of the dullest, most pretentious fluff in 40K and killed alot of holy neckbeard cows.

Found him.

Durza wrote:

Atma01 wrote:We should play the same game that we do on /tg/, which is 'Spot Mat Ward's posts!'. It assumes that Mat Ward is actually one of the posters defending his stuff, and we call him out and tell him to go to bed. Haven't managed to catch him yet, he is a sneaky little git.

Zweischneid wrote:He writes brilliant, innovative and diverse army lists, revived/scrapped some of the dullest, most pretentious fluff in 40K and killed alot of holy neckbeard cows.

Found him.

So? I am both ten years old and making a solid salary writing GW products for a living. Life's good!

Zweischneid wrote:

Durza wrote:

Atma01 wrote:We should play the same game that we do on /tg/, which is 'Spot Mat Ward's posts!'. It assumes that Mat Ward is actually one of the posters defending his stuff, and we call him out and tell him to go to bed. Haven't managed to catch him yet, he is a sneaky little git.

Zweischneid wrote:He writes brilliant, innovative and diverse army lists, revived/scrapped some of the dullest, most pretentious fluff in 40K and killed alot of holy neckbeard cows.

Found him.

So? I am both ten years old and making a solid salary writing GW products for a living. Life's good!

Congratulations mate, you're doing better than I am.

Kaldor wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Zweischneid wrote:... play with GW's plastic toy soldiers...

And there it is folks. The Dakka equivalent of Godwin's Law. Add this to the neckbeard comment from a page or two back and you can call this one cooked!

lolwut?

I think what HBMC is getting at is that simlar to how godwins law predicts that with enough time every argument will eventually feature mention of the nazis, in wargaming discussion it can only go so long before the inevitable simplification of miniatures as 'toy soldiers' is made in an attempt to make them seem insignificant and therefore render the argument futile.

Matt Ward made it canon that the Blood Angels allied with the Necrons. I can't even find words to describe the level of stupid inherent in that.

Not only that, but all of Grey Knights. For that alone, he should be lynched - or at the very least, fired for cause and disgraced to the point of a permanent blacklisting from ANY sort of sci-fi or fantasy rule making. I think the Grey Knights could stand toe to toe with Movie Marines as the most ridiculously broken army, and my money would be on the GK in that matchup.

Which gives me an idea. I think I'm going to try just that - Movie Marines vs Grey Knights. I'll let you know who wins.

Chesh wrote:Matt Ward made it canon that the Blood Angels allied with the Necrons. I can't even find words to describe the level of stupid inherent in that.

Not only that, but all of Grey Knights. For that alone, he should be lynched - or at the very least, fired for cause and disgraced to the point of a permanent blacklisting from ANY sort of sci-fi or fantasy rule making. I think the Grey Knights could stand toe to toe with Movie Marines as the most ridiculously broken army, and my money would be on the GK in that matchup.

Which gives me an idea. I think I'm going to try just that - Movie Marines vs Grey Knights. I'll let you know who wins.

In what text do the BA ally with the Necrons? Is it in one of their codices? Or WD? I'd like to read it.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Zweischneid wrote:... play with GW's plastic toy soldiers...

And there it is folks. The Dakka equivalent of Godwin's Law. Add this to the neckbeard comment from a page or two back and you can call this one cooked!

Nope, Draigo's law is Dakka's equivalent of Godwin's Law.

It's in the Blood Angels codex.

p. 16 under "955.M41 The Gehenna Campaign"

Commander Dante and the 3rd Company battle against the Necron Legions of the Silent King amidst the dusty wastes of Gehenna. For three weeks, neither side can seize the upper hand, with Dante's tactical brilliance stretched to its limits in countering the time-space manipulations of the Silent King. The stalemate is broken only when a Tyranid splinter fleet enters orbit, forcing the two armies to break off hostilities and fight the common foe. The impromptu alliance proves to be the Tyranids' undoing. Following the final battle at Devil's Crag, Dante and the Silent King go their separate ways, both forces now too battleworn to guarantee victory over the other, and, at least for the Blood Angels, the idea of turning on those they had so recently fought alongside, a rather distasteful one.

(emphasis mine)