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2014/02/07 21:31:55
Subject: Warlord Games: Gates of Antares New Release
Kilkrazy - I get what you're saying. I think we've maybe crossed wires a little. I bought the model, so technically I've bought 100% of GoA models.
Not having a base wouldn't stop me buying a fig I really liked. However, the devil is in the detail, and I think a new company, trying to make an impact and start building support like DSC are, should really be at least matching what competitors are doing, if not exceeding them. What I'm getting at is I'm wary of investing in a system where the manufacturer is giving you the very bare minimum, for what is effectively a boutique manufacturers pricing.
Pacific - they are pretty sweet looking models. I'm planning an Albion themed army for WHFB at some point, so I'll be sure to check them out. I vaguely remember looking at celts and Gauls from the hail cesar line already.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/07 21:38:48
Kilkrazy wrote: Aren't the Cadians and Catachans over 10 years old?
Tau Fire Warriors too, which are another lacklustre set of infantry models.
Woot. Tau Fire Warriors are brilliant-looking (if horrible to assemble) models. I never cared much for Crisis Suits, etc.. ., but those little guys have me coming back to the Tau for years.
Pacific wrote: Should have clarified that in terms of rank and file/standard units. Not character pieces, some of the new plastic GW ones are excellent.
But for your standard units the Hail Caesar Legionnaires are brilliant, really nicely detailed. Found some pics, this is the kind of standard you can get with a kit that costs about 60p a miniature, the Imperial Roman era and Celt miniatures are great also.
Spoiler:
And the Bolt Action stuff I have seen is really nice as well, the US and Brit plastic sets are much better than the GW Cadians and Catachans I think. Much cheaper as well, and you get a lot more random little bits on the sprues.
The casting on those looks pretty good. The sculpting is stuck in the 80s and 90s though. As are the Boromites, and to a slightly lesser degree the Algoryn, from Antares.
The industry needs to move on from that particular sticking point, among others. The more progressive companies these days are moving towards more realistic proportions, better details, etc. Hansa is a great example of the direction that they should take with Antares, in my opinion. Other than the stupid integrated base. That dinosaur needs to die too...
Personally, unless the figures all move towards the style of Hansa and away from the Boromites and Algoryn, the line is a no-go for me.
~Eric
2014/02/08 08:26:38
Subject: Warlord Games: Gates of Antares New Release
There is a lot of personal aesthetics involved in one's appreciation of a casting.
If you are used to Historicals, they have always been relatively realistic in proportions, and the GW are the standout weirdo proportions.
GW models have roughly the limb thickness, torso, head, hand and foot size of 1/35th scale infantry, with the height and leg length of the 1/56 scale they are supposed to be. A lot of us have got used to that and feel that realistic models are too thin.
The Romans are a bit towards the squat end of the spectrum, but I think they would be perfectly acceptable as long as you don't mix them with models from a different manufacturer.
The industry needs to move on from that particular sticking point, among others. The more progressive companies these days are moving towards more realistic proportions, better details, etc. Hansa is a great example of the direction that they should take with Antares, in my opinion. Other than the stupid integrated base. That dinosaur needs to die too...
~Eric
I don't tend to think of one being better than the other, but rather a different approach to the same thing.
There's a big argument to be made for when you are viewing big blocks of infantry from 3ft away, and how that appears to you when you are playing the game. I think having the 'heroic' proportions works well for that. The Warlord miniatures aren't too OTT I don't think, but I agree that it's very much a personal thing.
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Infinity miniatures and that style of designing miniatures (where you accidentally chop off hands thinking they are flash! ), but you don't see much in historical ranges that have that level of detail and with such delicate sculpting. And, certainly not where you can buy an entire army's worth of plastic for less than £100.
2014/02/08 11:11:58
Subject: Warlord Games: Gates of Antares New Release
To make a broad judgement, Historical players mainly play mass battle games involving hundreds of figures per side, mounted on multiple figure bases and organised into large blocks of troops.
Skirmish gaming is taken much more as a "beer and pretzels" pastime.
Just having looked at the warlord games website... This is sort of what I'm talking about.
Squat (good word), jowelly... Urgh.
Fortunately, they do also sell some of the Perry Miniatures (yup, THOSE Perry's) range, which look more... proper to me.
So, to pull it back on topic, slightly... If the Gates of Antares models end up looking like the Judge Dredd ones. - Which the Boromites do, although the Algoryn seem to be stepping away from that a bit, to be fairer to them.
Just... Eww.
2014/02/08 15:33:15
Subject: Re:Warlord Games: Gates of Antares New Release
Compel pretty well illustrated the point that I am trying to make, I think.
I don't necessarily think Infinity-like proportion should be used, just to be clear. Just more realistic than what they currently do.
I'll use this example a lot, but Kev White's miniatures are (in my opinion) the perfect balance between realism and exaggeration. He intentionally exaggerates some features a little bit (head, hands) but the rest of the mini is kept to pretty realistic proportions. And (also in my opinion) every other sculptor in the business could learn a great deal from him with regard to posing, and conveying weight and movement. There are tons of great sculptors out there that produce awesome miniatures that end up in WTF poses... Just a personal pet peeve of mine.
Part of my disappointment, and perhaps that of others, is that they started with a mini that ticks all the right boxes (Hansa) and then completely shifted gears with the Boromites and the rebel-type guy (can't remember the name) that they had made (by the Boromite sculptor, IIRC). If they had started with, and kept on with the style used on the Boromites, I don't think I would have batted an eye. I probably wouldn't have bought in much, if at all, but I wouldn't be here questioning it either.
The mortar looks straight outta TNG-era Star Trek, so I'm cool with that.
"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke
2014/02/13 02:14:05
Subject: Warlord Games: Gates of Antares New Release
Interesting, but still not sold, personally. The poses are definitely wooden. Is there a timeframe on the Algoryn yet? Going to have to see some photos of actual painted figures to make any sort of judgement. Wyrd is putting out some of the best plastic kits that I've ever seen, and their renders almost killed the line for me.
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." -Napoleon
Malifaux: Lady Justice
Infinity: &
2014/02/13 05:02:56
Subject: Warlord Games: Gates of Antares New Release
Guildsman wrote: Interesting, but still not sold, personally. The poses are definitely wooden. Is there a timeframe on the Algoryn yet? Going to have to see some photos of actual painted figures to make any sort of judgement. Wyrd is putting out some of the best plastic kits that I've ever seen, and their renders almost killed the line for me.
That'd be Wargames Factory that does Wyrd's stuff (along with Dreamforge and Kingdom Death), but Warlord Games has a different plastics company. Their plastic Bolt Action SD.Kfz 251/1 was a dream to assemble and I believe it was a 3D CAD model.
"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke
2014/02/13 05:19:37
Subject: Warlord Games: Gates of Antares New Release
Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better.
2014/02/13 15:41:39
Subject: Re:Warlord Games: Gates of Antares New Release
Well it took a month, but I guess it's progress. I think I'd rather have a model of the silicone creature from the original Star Trek series that bored through the caves than these.....teeth with legs.
LOL, Theo your mind is an amazing place, never change.-camkierhi 9/19/13
I cant believe theo is right.. damn. -comradepanda 9/26/13
None of the strange ideas we had about you involved your sexual orientation..........-Monkeytroll 12/10/13
I'd put you on ignore for that comment, if I could...Alpharius 2/11/14
2014/03/12 19:43:02
Subject: Warlord Games: Gates of Antares New Release
I'd have been less specific and gone with "why are they even wearing underwear?"
Ex-Mantic Rules Committees: Kings of War, Warpath
"The Emperor is obviously not a dictator, he's a couch." Starbuck: "Why can't we use the starboard launch bays?"
Engineer: "Because it's a gift shop!"
2014/03/12 19:59:18
Subject: Warlord Games: Gates of Antares New Release
Heres the spoilered rules info for those interested (its quiet a read)
Spoiler:
In this case our sample unit comprises five models: a Gang Leader and four Gangers. The leader carries a mag pistol and a hand held weapon for close up fighting – this can be either a tractor maul or lectro-lash. The gangers carry longer-ranged mag guns. Both have reflex armour. Reflex armour is a basic type of kinetic field defence common to many combatants in the Antarean universe. This consists of an energy field suspended from metalised hard points located on the wearer’s armour or clothing. In the case of Boromites, these hard points take the form of separate multifunctional nanite receptor nodes fastened directly into the tough, horny skin of the individual concerned. One of their other functions is to identify the Guild to which the Boromite gang belongs.
The stat line reads as follows Ag (Agility), Acc (Accuracy), Str (Strength) Res (Resist), Init (Initiative) and Co (Command). The value is a base test number for a D10, so you need to roll a D10 and score equal to or under the value shown to pass a test against that particular stat. In other words, to pass an Accuracy test our Boromite would need to roll a 5 or less, assuming no modifiers apply. Most folks will recognise this is a decimal system – a percentage expressed as a single multiple of ten – so a stat of 4 = a 40% chance of success, a stat of 9 = a 90% chance, and so on. I’ve done this deliberately to allow for super-detailing the game in the future by simply multiplying everything by ten and using a D100. That can wait for now though!
In the basic version of the Antares game, all infantry have a move rate of 5″ (M) and a run move rate 10″ (2M). This move rate isn’t included in the stat line. I might add it in later. For now at least, all infantry have the same move rate, so I’ve missed it out to keep the stat line as short as possible.
The Agility value (Ag) is not the move rate, but the stat we test against when moving through terrain that is hard going, when sprinting, and – in theory at least – in any situation that calls for physical agility and athleticism. So, let’s take the sprint move as an example. Any unit given a run order can either run (2M) or sprint (3M). A unit making a sprint moves three times its normal rate or 15″ over open ground, but once it has moved it must test its Agility. If this test is passed all is well. If the test is failed the unit becomes exhausted and suffers a pin marker. With a value of 4 our Boromites are slightly more cumbersome than the average human with a typical value of 5.
Accuracy and Strength are both used to strike at the enemy. Accuracy is the score required to hit when shooting with a ranged weapon, such as a mag gun. Strength is the score required to strike a blow in hand-to-hand fighting with a hand weapon, such as a tractor maul. We’ll also use the Strength stat for various other things, including simple feats of strength, but primarily it tells us how dangerous a fighter is in a scrap. As you can see our Boromites have stats of 5 and 6, 5 being about average for Anatarean combatants and 6 being better than average. Boromites are pretty good at fighting close up when they get the chance.
Resist is a measure of an individual’s likelihood of avoiding or surviving a hit upon his unit. ‘Hits’ from weapons are assumed to be shots that land within the bounds of a unit rather than actual hits upon individuals, although for gaming purposes we allocate hits to individual models. Depending upon his stamina, training, cover, and personal defences an individual has a chance to resist a hit and avoid damage. In the case of our Boromites this value is 6. This is better than the average human because Boromites are naturally tough, but the value is further boosted by +1 to 7 to take account of the reflex shields. If no further modifiers apply, this means our Boromite will survive a hit on a roll of 7 or under. Most weapons do have modifiers though – strike value modifiers – which vary from weapon to weapon and over different ranges in some cases.
Initiative and Command are the stats used to activate our units, and we have already discussed how this works in a previous update. Initiative and Command stats average around 8 in most cases, with a typical panhuman having a value of 7 and 8, or 8 and 7 respectively. These stats average at a higher value than others because they are affected directly by pins, with a –1 penalty per pin, so once a unit has 2 or 3 pins its chances of a successful test come in at around 50/50. Command is used to make actions – it is the equivalent of a Bolt Action Order – so a successful test allows the unit to perform a single action. Initiative is used to make a reaction to an enemy action, and the chance to do this is strictly limited depending upon circumstance. For example, if an enemy unit within 20″ shoots at your unit, your unit can attempt to shoot back by initiating a firefight. If successful, both units get to shoot at each other. Command tests and Initiative tests have penalties for failure. If you fail a Command test your unit fails to act as you wish and goesdown instead that turn – this is exactly the same as in Bolt Action. If you fail to make a reaction then your unit fails to react as you wish and takes a pin marker. As you can see, our Boromites are pretty good when it comes to Command with a value of 9. Conversely, Boromites are a bit sluggish when it comes to reacting with a stat of only 6. In summary, Boromites are gritty and determined when you give them orders, but ask them to think on their feet and things may not go quite so well for you.
and a bit of info on the lavamites
Our second unit of painted Boromites are the strange creatures native to the Borom asteroid belt known as Lavamites and sometimes as Rock Dogs. These creatures are used as working animals by the Boromites because, being organic after a fashion, they are invisible to nanite probes. Although nominally labour organisations, the Guilds include some of the most dangerous criminal elements in Antarean space, avoiding technology that would enable them to be traced or readily identified. Receptors hammered into the Lavamites’ scales enable Boromite handlers to control them, sending the creatures scurrying deep into fissures to sniff out valuable ores, or turning them into monstrous attack hounds. Not only do Lavamites have jaws that can (and do) crush rock, when threatened they can superheat their stomach contents and spit molten rock. As if this were not bad enough, the Lavamite is only the tiny juvenile stage of a species prevented from growing further by implanted receptor nodes. Only when new stock is needed do the Boromites allow their charges to mature into gigantic adults.
http://thelaughterofthedamned.blogspot.co.uk/
2014/03/12 20:19:05
Subject: Warlord Games: Gates of Antares New Release