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Everybody complains is not an excuse really, one must evaluate which complains are valid and which are not.

No, you won't.

I want all those lame stretch goals for myself.

Get your own Robocop.

I too thought we'd be seeing all kinds of cool crap in the stretches.

Bundle those VIPs with the office workers. Get some new baddies.

Include the damn solo boards as a stretch instead of an add on.

Cardboard doors I still think were a bit of a fumble.

Have they said whether or not the MYTH stretch goals will include the metal coin thingamumbobs from the MYTH kickstarter?

Not sure,... Might have to wait for the MYTH expansion KS for that,.... The message board exploded mostly about card sleeves for the completionists.

The MegaCon guys said it was unlikely unless they had many many more total backers to make the small print run feasible.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
Everybody complains is not an excuse really, one must evaluate which complains are valid and which are not.

It's all just opinion,.... One person might totally agree with you,.... The next might think you're nuts.

Doors SG was Meh,.... I think the problem with the add on's is that they are too early,........

Let's say that by the time it's all said and done, that you got 6 mission packs for free,... And had two that were available as add ons????

That feels a whole lot different,.... It would give a lot of free stuff,.... But still get the completionists with the add ons.

(I have no info that the split will be this way,... But they have indicated that future stretches will also give free mission packs as well,... So we will have to see)

With MYTH the bulk of the Add ons came in the last two weeks,... And that feels a lot different than having them up on day one.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Wow... tell us how you really feel Salacious. :-p

Incidentally the "Stupid Dog" is a running joke dating back to Myth, and is a nice nod to their community and long term fans. Harmless and well meaning.

Oh, sorry if it came off as harsh. Honestly. I understand completely about the dog. But for someone on the outside of their "nod", it seems poorly executed and doesn't engage me. I also get the Myth figures. Make money where you can.

But they've exhausted that pool. Now they have to reach beyong that pool. I want the game for the cool figures. But it's not at a point where I "have to have it." And I'm not hearing enough good things to want the TT rules either.

Robocop is a great step, but with all the dismal SGs after it, from an outside perspective, it's not making my money want to migrate to their wallets. I still have 16 level 1 secfor tokens in the two base boxes. Give me some miniatures. If they supposedly threw loads of miniatures at Myth, they should take notice that the "loads" of miniatures would probably work here too.

I think we can definitely expect more OPFOR figures. I finally watched the intro video on the main page and I noticed that there seems to be artwork for what looks like a level 4 Security trooper. I imagine then that they've got more guys planned than just the basic security dudes.

I think a lot of us would be happy with a big pile of secforces. I would.

That's part of me reasoning behind not splitting with Barzam- I don't feel like I've got enough figures in the box!

they confirmed that SecFor4 minis are in upcoming goals,.... their ads are still not up,..... at this point the MYTH and MERCS faithfuls are in,..... they need to drive traffic to the site.

They did this really well with MYTH,... and like that campaign, they have planned tie ins with Adepticon and PaxEast, ans I'm sure some other link ups with sites and youtubers,....

but right now,..it is getting stagnant,...It's hardly budged since the little jump after the Robocop goal add.........I would have thought that it would have gotten to that goal by now.


They need those ads working.

And just like in Grand Theft Auto, you get your threat level too high... bad things start to happen.

They did say there'll be those "boss monster" types that can show up if you're up to no good for too long, past just the regular level 4 stuff.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
I can live with the dog, who is really irrelevant, could be at least posed more reasonable/ had better equipment setup, we all have our pet vanities, they want their dog immortalized as a miniature (twice) so be it.

I feel they have exhausted their hardcore supporters. 896 Agent level and 560 OPFOR, along with 183 hardcore but Myth only pledgers.

The fact new people joining in show a steady decline and the flexible streachgoal show it has failed to reach the critical point of a good offer, to attract new people in.

Honestly, I'm not super excited with the deal as it is, and I'm one of the "on the fence guys" rather than a hardcore pledger, but I am in right now. I've got $120 and will let it ride until the end, when I either pull my pledge or add on the expansions and extras. The thing is, I'm really not one of those people who micromanages my pledge on a daily basis, adding $10 here and there for the add-ons. I don't have the time or inclination for that kind of bs, so it's really up to how it ends up on the last day(s). I'm sure there are others like me that liked the Myth deal who are in now on a more speculative than hardcore basis...

yamato wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
Everybody complains is not an excuse really, one must evaluate which complains are valid and which are not.

It's all just opinion,.... One person might totally agree with you,.... The next might think you're nuts.

It is true, but, if I complain that a doughnut has no corners and it is difficult for me to choose were to start biting it, people can freely ignore me, if I complain that an extra doughnut costs more than a box of five, I may have a serious point.

yamato wrote:
Doors SG was Meh,.... I think the problem with the add on's is that they are too early,........

Let's say that by the time it's all said and done, that you got 6 mission packs for free,... And had two that were available as add ons????

That feels a whole lot different,.... It would give a lot of free stuff,.... But still get the completionists with the add ons.

(I have no info that the split will be this way,... But they have indicated that future stretches will also give free mission packs as well,... So we will have to see)

With MYTH the bulk of the Add ons came in the last two weeks,... And that feels a lot different than having them up on day one.

Doors Streachgoal was not only meh, it wasted the opportunity to make them plastic and upgrade the product value.

I get what you say about the add ons and expansion packs, the timing may have been unfortunate, or they might even thought they will get away with charging them all the way with the initial rush (I am not entirely sure the 400k free expansion pack was 100% intended or a reaction), I do not know, the fact is they failed to make the basic pledge and the advanced pledge a good or irresistible offer with the initial push and the numbers show it, I am amazed that with a fine streachgoal like CPP 1 the movement has been minimal for half a day, I will not proclaim doom, that would be silly, but the stagnation is evident and its up to them to make the ball go again and they really must consider it, the 400k streachgoal is interesting, BUT, its still 112k away, they must do something to attract new blood and this can only happen by making the basic pledge attractive enough.

Azazelx wrote:

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
I can live with the dog, who is really irrelevant, could be at least posed more reasonable/ had better equipment setup, we all have our pet vanities, they want their dog immortalized as a miniature (twice) so be it.

I feel they have exhausted their hardcore supporters. 896 Agent level and 560 OPFOR, along with 183 hardcore but Myth only pledgers.

The fact new people joining in show a steady decline and the flexible streachgoal show it has failed to reach the critical point of a good offer, to attract new people in.

Honestly, I'm not super excited with the deal as it is, and I'm one of the "on the fence guys" rather than a hardcore pledger, but I am in right now. I've got $120 and will let it ride until the end, when I either pull my pledge or add on the expansions and extras. The thing is, I'm really not one of those people who micromanages my pledge on a daily basis, adding $10 here and there for the add-ons. I don't have the time or inclination for that kind of bs, so it's really up to how it ends up on the last day(s). I'm sure there are others like me that liked the Myth deal who are in now on a more speculative than hardcore basis...

I will have to agree, the basic pledge needs more to be attractive, my other concern is that if the case will be the same with what is reported with Myth, the basic boardgame once released will look eh, I seriously hope they will pass the kickstarter funds to upgrade the basic product.

I just hope my myth BG reaches me soon....oh wait, I'm an international backer -_-

Don't worry we are quite a few, I do wonder what percentage we are of the total backers.

At least we get two waves at once, its something.

That of course being the other aspect that adds a slight amount to the "pull my pledge" potential. At least down to $1 and a potential pledge manage later down the line. When are we supposed to get our stuff again? June, wasn't it? Or July?

PsychoticStorm, I feel like your railing against the add-on prices continues to ignore the point that those boxes are worth more than the sum of their parts in a straight comparison to the base-game boxes, because they come with enough of a whole faction of the table-top game to play that.

I'm not saying you're wrong to want some better stretch-goals, etc... but for some context, I just spent $50 to get a USCR starter shipped from an online (thus discounted) retailer. The box has six models, six cards, and some dice. :-p

For $25 you're getting board-game components, two extra minis for the board game, and that same value of table-top viable minis.

That is probably something they've taken into account. Each sold $25 add-on, is a $50+ sale they can never get from someone who goes on to then play the table-top game.

 Azazelx wrote:
That of course being the other aspect that adds a slight amount to the "pull my pledge" potential. At least down to $1 and a potential pledge manage later down the line. When are we supposed to get our stuff again? June, wasn't it? Or July?

For MERCS: RECON?

January 2015.

But, you know...

Just a note about the pledge manager stuff:

they have said that one of the biggest headaches in the entire campaign of MYTH was running the PM. They have said already that they are going to outsource it for Recon (but no deal done yet). That said; I would not count on the ability to add additional funds after the KS close or upgrade pledges, etc.

They could end up going with a simple one that just lets you chose items for your initial overfunding through KS, but may not let you add anything else.

We may not know that until closer to the end.

 yamato wrote:
Just a note about the pledge manager stuff:

they have said that one of the biggest headaches in the entire campaign of MYTH was running the PM. They have said already that they are going to outsource it for Recon (but no deal done yet). That said; I would not count on the ability to add additional funds after the KS close or upgrade pledges, etc.

They could end up going with a simple one that just lets you chose items for your initial overfunding through KS, but may not let you add anything else.

We may not know that until closer to the end.

I would be honestly shocked if they did that. Not allowing people to add more funds seems like it simplifies things, until you get the emails about "oh, I miscalculated my pledge, I'm short $3" and so on. Besides that, people are now acclimated to the idea that a pledge manager allows new selections: defying expectations like that, especially on a campaign that has so many options, is (again) just changing around the nature of the headache, not eliminating it.

Besides, money gathered through a pledge manager avoids Amazon and KS fees (although, of course, is still subject to the fees for paypal).

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
PsychoticStorm, I feel like your railing against the add-on prices continues to ignore the point that those boxes are worth more than the sum of their parts in a straight comparison to the base-game boxes, because they come with enough of a whole faction of the table-top game to play that.

I'm not saying you're wrong to want some better stretch-goals, etc... but for some context, I just spent $50 to get a USCR starter shipped from an online (thus discounted) retailer. The box has six models, six cards, and some dice. :-p

For $25 you're getting board-game components, two extra minis for the board game, and that same value of table-top viable minis.

That is probably something they've taken into account. Each sold $25 add-on, is a $50+ sale they can never get from someone who goes on to then play the table-top game.

NewTruth,

I completely understand what you're saying. However, from someone who doesn't play the TT game, it doesn't present the same value. Compared -solely- to the $60 boxed game, the $25 add-on expansions don't appear to contain the same value. Now, if they hadn't tapped out their Mercs market already, I think people who want those figures in plastic are completely delighted, and rightfully so. But to everyone who isn't already invested in the TT game, it is a head scratcher. Especially at the choice of figures that they included in the base games and the expansion packs. Not having played the TT game, I don't know what each archtype does, but wonder why each team doesn't have the same ones. So, trying to road map everything, it is a bit of a head scratcher.

I'm waiting on them to pump up the SecFor, get some more "bosses" in there, before they can lure me in. I think the extra civilians in the expansions are great, and what makes them great. But we're talking 7 figures for $25 vs 20(+) figures for $60 from a non-TT perspective, so a bit of a headscratcher. And, from looking at everything so far, it does not appear that you get the one pager for solo play with either the expansion or in the one pagers add-on. So, a little better exposition on their part or clarity on the KS page would be most helpful.

 Salacious Greed wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
PsychoticStorm, I feel like your railing against the add-on prices continues to ignore the point that those boxes are worth more than the sum of their parts in a straight comparison to the base-game boxes, because they come with enough of a whole faction of the table-top game to play that.

I'm not saying you're wrong to want some better stretch-goals, etc... but for some context, I just spent $50 to get a USCR starter shipped from an online (thus discounted) retailer. The box has six models, six cards, and some dice. :-p

For $25 you're getting board-game components, two extra minis for the board game, and that same value of table-top viable minis.

That is probably something they've taken into account. Each sold $25 add-on, is a $50+ sale they can never get from someone who goes on to then play the table-top game.

NewTruth,

I completely understand what you're saying. However, from someone who doesn't play the TT game, it doesn't present the same value. Compared -solely- to the $60 boxed game, the $25 add-on expansions don't appear to contain the same value. Now, if they hadn't tapped out their Mercs market already, I think people who want those figures in plastic are completely delighted, and rightfully so. But to everyone who isn't already invested in the TT game, it is a head scratcher. Especially at the choice of figures that they included in the base games and the expansion packs. Not having played the TT game, I don't know what each archtype does, but wonder why each team doesn't have the same ones. So, trying to road map everything, it is a bit of a head scratcher.

I'm waiting on them to pump up the SecFor, get some more "bosses" in there, before they can lure me in. I think the extra civilians in the expansions are great, and what makes them great. But we're talking 7 figures for $25 vs 20(+) figures for $60 from a non-TT perspective, so a bit of a headscratcher. And, from looking at everything so far, it does not appear that you get the one pager for solo play with either the expansion or in the one pagers add-on. So, a little better exposition on their part or clarity on the KS page would be most helpful.

I'm not saying you're wrong, man... Just pointing out what I imagine their thought process was.

Listen to Paolo Parente trash his Dust critics, and he'll often cite the implicit value in models working in two game systems. He goes about it in a douchy way, but I do see the point.

I can sympathize with your frustration, I just happen to be the niche that is just getting into Mercs table-top in a bigger way, and thus have this Kickstarter doubling as a "Hey, all those purchases you were gonna make for $200-300 just got its price slashed by more than half..." :-p

NewTruth,

Yes, I philosophically see what Paolo Parente is saying. But when both of those games are of your own making, it doesn't reach outside of your own playerbase. And also doesn't necessarily mean that your own player base even plays both games. So a self-inflated value doesn't equate to actual market value, no matter how much the makers wish it so.

I really want to grab this, make a go of it. But talking $250+ right now if I want the expansions and TT rules, that will be a hard sell, as it will be me and the kids playing it, not me and friends. So Mercs (the company) really need to up their game here and sell me on what a great value it is with content and incentives. Otherwise, it will be a pass on the KS and later on in the market. Though I really love the Russian suits.

So, I hope they take my plee, really start making the game irresistable, while also rewarding their faithful, which isn't an issue for me, but those items don't hold -any- value from my point of view. So it's a relative balancing act, trying to keep the faithful happy and spending, while making the game attractive to the rest of the miniature world that isn't invested in it yet. It's just not there. I'm not sure of the comparison, but I got a ton more from Shadows of Brimstone, which was doing the same thing with 2 core box games. I'm hoping the game gains some momentum and the content gets better by the end. We've got lots of time, just need Mercs to show some intent to rally this thing, not let it linger at this level til the end.

Salacious Greed,

Are you saying that you're an 'existing MERCS' player and the current $120 or $200 pledge doesn't offer you anything that you don't already have?

Because as a 'new to the scene MERCS' player, the $120 pledge looks decent to me already, only a few days in...

 Alpharius wrote:
Salacious Greed,

Are you saying that you're an 'existing MERCS' player and the current $120 or $200 pledge doesn't offer you anything that you don't already have?

Because as a 'new to the scene MERCS' player, the $120 pledge looks decent to me already, only a few days in...

I'm in this camp, too. What I'm really waiting to see is whether the $200 or $120 pledge is going to be the best for what I want.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
PsychoticStorm, I feel like your railing against the add-on prices continues to ignore the point that those boxes are worth more than the sum of their parts in a straight comparison to the base-game boxes, because they come with enough of a whole faction of the table-top game to play that.

I'm not saying you're wrong to want some better stretch-goals, etc... but for some context, I just spent $50 to get a USCR starter shipped from an online (thus discounted) retailer. The box has six models, six cards, and some dice. :-p

For $25 you're getting board-game components, two extra minis for the board game, and that same value of table-top viable minis.

That is probably something they've taken into account. Each sold $25 add-on, is a $50+ sale they can never get from someone who goes on to then play the table-top game.

Every $25 add-on sale they get here from someone who was never going to play the tabletop game is new money in their pocket. Let's also not forget that despite money for shipping, KS cut, etc, this is a direct sale to consumers for that $25. The $50 sale you're touting isn't $50 to them since it goes through distributors and retailers, so their wholesale amount is much, much lower - closer to that $25 in fact.

 Alpharius wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
That of course being the other aspect that adds a slight amount to the "pull my pledge" potential. At least down to $1 and a potential pledge manage later down the line. When are we supposed to get our stuff again? June, wasn't it? Or July?

For MERCS: RECON?
January 2015.
But, you know...

Yeah, I was thinking of the late-modified "Oh, you lot? you live overseas, so we'll ship it a few months later, k?" group of us.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 yamato wrote:
Just a note about the pledge manager stuff:
they have said that one of the biggest headaches in the entire campaign of MYTH was running the PM. They have said already that they are going to outsource it for Recon (but no deal done yet). That said; I would not count on the ability to add additional funds after the KS close or upgrade pledges, etc.
They could end up going with a simple one that just lets you chose items for your initial overfunding through KS, but may not let you add anything else.
We may not know that until closer to the end.

We know you're a big fan of them, and want the KS to do gangbusters numbers by encouraging more money now, but that's simply not going to happen. Pledge managers are pretty much there to make it easier for creators to get even more money and allow their customers to spend it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alpharius wrote:
Salacious Greed,
Are you saying that you're an 'existing MERCS' player and the current $120 or $200 pledge doesn't offer you anything that you don't already have?
Because as a 'new to the scene MERCS' player, the $120 pledge looks decent to me already, only a few days in...

I think he's looking at it as a "I don't actually play MERCS and am on the fence about becoming one via this Kickstarter. I probably wouldn't have ever started it through normal channels either. So your arbitrary dollar value savings mean little to me, and if it doesn't start looking better, I simply wont be a MERCS player" player.

 Alpharius wrote:
Salacious Greed,

Are you saying that you're an 'existing MERCS' player and the current $120 or $200 pledge doesn't offer you anything that you don't already have?

Because as a 'new to the scene MERCS' player, the $120 pledge looks decent to me already, only a few days in...

Alph,

No. I'm not into Mercs right now. I like some of the factions (not the EU though. The berets. I hate the beret in real life, and have a history with berets in the Army...) and think most of the models look great, but this isn't a "must own" yet for me, and progressing from the game to the TT probably won't happen. I'm in the Army, and never keep a gaming group for long, and while I've heard of Mercs before this, never once seen it on a TT. So, from a board game perspective, I really like the look of it, but it just feels like they pulled the level 1 SecFor pieces out to be SGs/add-ons, but just aren't packing them back in. And with level 4 SecFor in the rules, not seeing them again makes the game feel unfinished. I'm not saying this is the case, merely my personal feeling, and what is keeping me from taking the plunge.

I believe they are doing right by their own community, and have no issue with that. My response to the Myth crossovers and the Dog are merely my own feelings again. They don't add anything to the Recon experience for me. I'd be happy to pass those on to someone who'd enjoy having them should I back this, as they'll gather dust in the garage with all my 90s era GW figures and Sedition Wars. I'm hoping that this gets the loving that all the Myth backers keep saying is going to happen, but it looks like a longshot, though there is lots of time for retooling of the KS and SGs.

If I get the game, I have the "addictive" behavioral problem of wanting to get the TT rules, because of a need to own things like that, though it would probably be me and my 9 year old trying to blow up each other on the TT.

Please, anyone in this thread. I see the different values for backers, and am not trying to sway anyone away from this at all. I'm enjoying the different discussions and viewpoints in this thread. I really hope that they win me over. I'm just trying to balance "personal" value vs buyers remorse. Sedition Wars really beat me down when it was delivered. I bought 2 sets, one to gift to my brother, so that I'd have someone to play against at holidays and summer visits. I didn't even gift it, I felt so poorly about it. I was very happy with the sets of scenery I got from it though, and glad I got 2 sets of that. I'm actually quite interested in the scenery pieces for this game as well, and really wish we could see shots of those scenery pieces and the drones as well. They have some great models, but great models =\= great value.

Azazelx,

You summed it up far more efficiently than I did. Great insight.

 Azazelx wrote:


We know you're a big fan of them, and want the KS to do gangbusters numbers by encouraging more money now, but that's simply not going to happen. Pledge managers are pretty much there to make it easier for creators to get even more money and allow their customers to spend it.

not being a "pledge, pledge now" fan boy on this,.... just cautioning a thought of putting $1 in and then buying in after the close. I'm much more into MYTH than this,... but Alpharius asked me to start this thread and keep it up instead of everyone talking about it in the MYTH thread.

I hope that it is easy,... I haven't don many "big" KS pledges,..... I know that you can typically make some changes,... but MYTH enabled you the ability to up your pledge,.... get multilple copies of pledges with stretch goals,.. and allowed you to do several rounds of additions,...... I'm just not sure that this one will be as flexible. I thought it was important to share that they would be doing things differently with this,...... not trying to drive pledges with that.

I'm with Alpharius: I don't micro manage my pledge. I put in and then adjust it on the last day.

Yamato,

You've been doing a great job in keeping the thread up, kudos. Your point about the pledge manager is very valid, and should be noted.

You've also not been a rabid fanboy. You've had good insight and discussion. Keep it up!

 yamato wrote:

not being a "pledge, pledge now" fan boy on this,.... just cautioning a thought of putting $1 in and then buying in after the close. I'm much more into MYTH than this,... but Alpharius asked me to start this thread and keep it up instead of everyone talking about it in the MYTH thread.

I hope that it is easy,... I haven't don many "big" KS pledges,..... I know that you can typically make some changes,... but MYTH enabled you the ability to up your pledge,.... get multilple copies of pledges with stretch goals,.. and allowed you to do several rounds of additions,...... I'm just not sure that this one will be as flexible. I thought it was important to share that they would be doing things differently with this,...... not trying to drive pledges with that.

I'm with Alpharius: I don't micro manage my pledge. I put in and then adjust it on the last day.

That was me, not Alph.

But it's typical and completely normal for people to up their pledges and add more copies via PMs. These guys even allowed latecomers to come on board via their PM last time, so I'd expect similar, since the whole thing is a fundraising exercise.

He was actually right - I handle most Kickstarters that way too.

And I am glad that he...volunteered to manage this thread here too!

Yeah, but I was the one talking about it in this thread, and in pretty much the same words.