More idiocy from protestors

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**Frazzled**

I don't, necessarily. The protestors certainly seem to think it's a black/non-black thing though, or at least the blackbrunchers do. Maybe ask them.

No thanks. As a policy I avoid conversations with racists.

**Grey Templar**

Its only disproportionate arresting and stopping if said people are not also disproportionately involved in crime.

African Americans are not disproportionately represented in the justice system, they're disproportionately more likely to be involved with crime.

Complaining about how they're disproportionately arrested and imprisoned is complaining about the symptom and not the cause. The Justice system is only reacting to the higher crime rate.

**Chongara**

whembly wrote:

The LEO must must be able to use discretion. Otherwise, nothing gets done and we'd effectively be living in a police state.

It's a balancing act... should, the office ticket you always for speeding/tail light outtage? Or, should they, at their discretion, be allowed to let you off with a warning?

I tend to agree police need at least some wiggle room in their work. The world is a more complex place than the law can effectively account for, rigid adherence to just the letter of the law would either bog down the system or leave people feeling like they're being treated unfairly.

Bias, racial or otherwise is unavoidable. That's just part of human nature. It's a problem we need to try and minimize, by tackling it both on a broader societal level and more robust practices to make sure that discretion is being used within good guidelines.

However an ability to look at a situation subjectively and see the nuances is also part of human nature. It's a strength and we should utilize it. I don't want to see a system that twists cops arms into trying to being as cold, removed and robotic about situations as possible.

**cincydooley**

Chongara wrote:
whembly wrote:

The LEO must must be able to use discretion. Otherwise, nothing gets done and we'd effectively be living in a police state.

It's a balancing act... should, the office ticket you always for speeding/tail light outtage? Or, should they, at their discretion, be allowed to let you off with a warning?

I tend to agree police need at least some wiggle room in their work. The world is a more complex place than the law can effectively account for, rigid adherence to just the letter of the law would either bog down the system or leave people feeling like they're being treated unfairly.

Bias, racial or otherwise is unavoidable. That's just part of human nature. It's a problem we need to try and minimize, by tackling it both on a broader societal level and more robust practices to make sure that discretion is being used within good guidelines.

However an ability to look at a situation subjectively and see the nuances is also part of human nature. It's a strength and we should utilize it. I don't want to see a system that twists cops arms into trying to being as cold, removed and robotic about situations as possible.

I do agree with both of you; the last thing I want is a police/nanny state. But with that in mind, there really needs to be some re-evaluation of things that are more commonly 'used with discretion.' Perhaps if it's one of these types of offense, that's how we start to pinpoint what we turn into ticketable violations and not as arrestable offenses. Like speeding. Like possession of marijuana. Like selling loosies.

**Frazzled**

You don't like the law, change the law. Thats how it should be and I am down with that.

**cincydooley**

Frazzled wrote:
You don't like the law, change the law. Thats how it should be and I am down with that.

Hey, put it on a ballot and I'll vote for it. I even gave $20 bucks to some hippie at Fountain Square who was collecting signatures for the Ohio Rights Group and their push to get it legalization of marijuana on the Ohio ballot.

**Jihadin**

New York going to be in a financial hurt locker in about six months from lack of fine funds. Even parking tickets/time expired tickets are like 90% plus down

**daedalus**

Jihadin wrote:
New York going to be in a financial hurt locker in about six months from lack of fine funds. Even parking tickets/time expired tickets are like 90% plus down

And yet NYC is not falling into chaos without the police doing their jobs.

**d-usa**

daedalus wrote:
Jihadin wrote:
New York going to be in a financial hurt locker in about six months from lack of fine funds. Even parking tickets/time expired tickets are like 90% plus down

And yet NYC is not falling into chaos without the police doing their jobs.

And if your budget depends on being breaking the law and policing for profit then maybe that's another problem altogether.

**CptJake**

d-usa wrote:
daedalus wrote:
Jihadin wrote:
New York going to be in a financial hurt locker in about six months from lack of fine funds. Even parking tickets/time expired tickets are like 90% plus down

And yet NYC is not falling into chaos without the police doing their jobs.

And if your budget depends on being breaking the law and policing for profit then maybe that's another problem altogether.

No different from any 'sin tax' really. States come to depend on them for revenue and when the taxes actually work to decrease consumption of the 'sin' and revenue drops, they either raise the tax or increase the span of the tax to make up for lost revenue from an item/activity they nominally wanted to decrease.

**Frazzled**

d-usa wrote:
daedalus wrote:
Jihadin wrote:
New York going to be in a financial hurt locker in about six months from lack of fine funds. Even parking tickets/time expired tickets are like 90% plus down

And yet NYC is not falling into chaos without the police doing their jobs.

And if your budget depends on being breaking the law and policing for profit then maybe that's another problem altogether.

Agreed but tell that to most police depertments and city/county governments. There's a reason speed trap towns still exist.

**daedalus**

d-usa wrote:
daedalus wrote:
Jihadin wrote:
New York going to be in a financial hurt locker in about six months from lack of fine funds. Even parking tickets/time expired tickets are like 90% plus down

And yet NYC is not falling into chaos without the police doing their jobs.

And if your budget depends on being breaking the law and policing for profit then maybe that's another problem altogether.

Well, I haven't seen much in the way of it wrt if violent crimes are being prosecuted one way or the other, so they might still be doing their jobs when not bringing in revenue, but overall when a group of people is not doing their jobs as measured, and you get by just fine without the group of people doing their jobs, then maybe the revenue to continue paying most of the people not doing their jobs disappearing isn't a bad thing.

In the corporate sector, identifying that no immediate change occurs from not having a group of people around anymore usually indicates a "business opportunity".

**whembly**

Well... that escalated a bit....
NYPD cops told no vacations until work slowdown ends

It’s a slowdown showdown.

At precincts across the city, top brass are cracking the whip on summons activity and even barring many cops from taking vacation and sick days, The Post has learned.

Throughout the city, precincts are being ordered to hand up to borough commanders “activity sheets” indicating the number of arrests and summonses per shift, sources told The Post.

“Police officers around the city are now threatened with transfers, no vacation time and sick time unless they write summonses,” one union source said.

“This is the same practice that caused officers to be labeled racist and abusers of power.”

In at least one precinct, the brass backlash — which comes in the wake of Police Commissioner Bill Bratton ordering cops back on the job after The Post reported a 90 percent drop in ticket writing — is downright draconian.

“Everyone here is under orders — no time off” during the summons catch-up blitz, said one cop at the 105th Precinct in Queens.

“And the majority of [new] summonses written aren’t protecting the public in any way.

“But now they’re realizing how much revenue the city is losing and they’re enforcing their will upon us,” he said.

Bratton’s back-to-work edict was still ringing in commanding officers’ ears when the crackdown hit cops on the Thursday/Friday overnight shift at the 105th bordering Nassau County, the officer said.

The lieutenant ordered sector cars from throughout the precinct to converge at Springfield Boulevard and Jamaica Avenue for a driver checkpoint, the officer said.

No one was to return to the precinct or even take a meal break until two summonses were logged, the officer said.

“To have all the manpower utilized for the sole purpose of writing summonses is a very dangerous way to utilize manpower,” he said. “This is not what we’re out here for.”

Back at the station house, memos (above) were posted alerting cops that no new days off would be approved beyond already approved vacation days. And there were to be no sick days without a doctor’s note.

**daedalus**

Wow. A childish response to childish actions.

**djones520**

What is a "summonses"?

**daedalus**

djones520 wrote:
What is a "summonses"?

I assume a citation or arrest requiring someone to attend court.

**whembly**

daedalus wrote:
djones520 wrote:
What is a "summonses"?

I assume a citation or arrest requiring someone to attend court.

So... at this point, isn't this the city’s basically admitting that the NYPD is primarily a tool for extracting money from the citizenry in "an arbitrary fashion" (ie, a quota system).

**djones520**

daedalus wrote:
djones520 wrote:
What is a "summonses"?

I assume a citation or arrest requiring someone to attend court.

"Arrest more people, or you can't take sick days."

Just sounds a little totalitarian... just a little.

**Ouze**

djones520 wrote:
What is a "summonses"?

A ticket. The ~~Department of Revenue Enforcement~~ NYPD hands them for stuff where an arrest is not warranted, like jaywalking or smoking in the subway, stuff like that. You can go to court to fight it, or just pay it, but you're pleading guilty of you pay it just like a traffic ticket, and some of them go up to misdemeanor level.

**whembly**

djones520 wrote:
daedalus wrote:
djones520 wrote:
What is a "summonses"?

I assume a citation or arrest requiring someone to attend court.

"Arrest more people, or you can't take sick days."

Just sounds a little totalitarian... just a little.

And... potentially... it opens the city up to lawsuits by the Unions. I'm sure there's a collective bargaining agreement to handle this kind of dispute.

If not, then... I'd be surprised.

**djones520**

Ouze wrote:
djones520 wrote:
What is a "summonses"?

A ticket. The ~~Department of Revenue Enforcement~~ NYPD hands them for stuff where an arrest is not warranted, like jaywalking or smoking in the subway, stuff like that.

Gotcha.

**Frazzled**

Oh wait, you mean there are a bunch of laws that are just revenue generators and cops spend a major portion of their time just collecting fees? Who knew...

**d-usa**

Frazzled wrote:
Oh wait, you mean there are a bunch of laws that are just revenue generators and cops spend a major portion of their time just collecting fees? Who knew...

Don't think of them as tickets and fines, think of them as retroactive permits and fees.

**easysauce**

whembly wrote:
daedalus wrote:
djones520 wrote:
What is a "summonses"?

I assume a citation or arrest requiring someone to attend court.

So... at this point, isn't this the city’s basically admitting that the NYPD is primarily a tool for extracting money from the citizenry in "an arbitrary fashion" (ie, a quota system).

I was under the impression they already had ticket quota systems, and that it was simply a "worst kept secret" of all police forces.

While I have seen "officials" deny such quotas, I have had individual LEO's admit they are there in run around forms (IE no bonus if not enough tickets per month)

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/05/02/marni-soupcoff-think-police-really-dont-have-ticket-quotas-check-out-these-leaks/

"A leaked memo recently sent by Sgt. Wanda DeCoste to officers in Toronto’s 31 Division reminds them that traffic enforcement officers are expected to write 25 tickets a day, and “accident car officers” are expected to write at least 10 tickets a day, provided they are not dealing with any collisions.

And yet, Toronto police still insist there are no quotas in place. Deputy Chief Peter Sloly offered this helpful distinction when talking with the Toronto Star: “No, there’s no quota. But there is an expectation.” (Clears it all up, doesn’t it?)È

**Jihadin**

Guess someone else also took notice of lack of funds in the future

**Matthew**

I'm just sitting here laughing.

**Supertony51**

Da Boss wrote:
Shame. The cops killing a disproportionate number of black citizens is also not helping things too much.

Well they also represent a disportionate amount of violent crime...so....kinda makes sense that they would have the most violent encounters with police.

**Peter Wiggin**

Frazzled wrote:
cincydooley wrote:
Did you miss this one:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/01/05/blackbrunchnyc-brings-police-brutality-protests-to-white-breakfast-spots/

I like this one, just in the look of annoyance on one rich guy's face in one pic.
Upscale in Oakland? Seriously? Whats upscale in Oakland-Taco Bell?

Tons of hip & trendy cafe's throughout downtown Oakland. Honestly though, protestors in the bay would be better served interrupting the bazillion dollar luncheon's over in San Fransisco if they really wanted to generate buzz.

Oh but wait, those places will throw them out and SFPD will arrest them. The "protest tradition" of Oakland allows for immeasurable privilege that folks don't even comprehend they are exerecising.

**SlaveToDorkness**

They definitely should check it...

**OgreChubbs**

cincydooley wrote:
Chongara wrote:
whembly wrote:

The LEO must must be able to use discretion. Otherwise, nothing gets done and we'd effectively be living in a police state.

It's a balancing act... should, the office ticket you always for speeding/tail light outtage? Or, should they, at their discretion, be allowed to let you off with a warning?

I tend to agree police need at least some wiggle room in their work. The world is a more complex place than the law can effectively account for, rigid adherence to just the letter of the law would either bog down the system or leave people feeling like they're being treated unfairly.

Bias, racial or otherwise is unavoidable. That's just part of human nature. It's a problem we need to try and minimize, by tackling it both on a broader societal level and more robust practices to make sure that discretion is being used within good guidelines.

However an ability to look at a situation subjectively and see the nuances is also part of human nature. It's a strength and we should utilize it. I don't want to see a system that twists cops arms into trying to being as cold, removed and robotic about situations as possible.

I do agree with both of you; the last thing I want is a police/nanny state. But with that in mind, there really needs to be some re-evaluation of things that are more commonly 'used with discretion.' Perhaps if it's one of these types of offense, that's how we start to pinpoint what we turn into ticketable violations and not as arrestable offenses. Like speeding. Like possession of marijuana. Like selling loosies.

I agree if i want to speed through a school zone with kids beside the road or have a pocket full of crack at a highschool, or break any other law i see as pointless they should give me a ticket and leave me alone. P.s. Why are protesters not arrested for holding someone against their will when the locked down the road and locked everyone in their cars. If i locked you in your car for hours the cops would arrest my ass

Automatically Appended Next Post:

easysauce wrote:
whembly wrote:
daedalus wrote:
djones520 wrote:
What is a "summonses"?

I assume a citation or arrest requiring someone to attend court.

So... at this point, isn't this the city’s basically admitting that the NYPD is primarily a tool for extracting money from the citizenry in "an arbitrary fashion" (ie, a quota system).

I was under the impression they already had ticket quota systems, and that it was simply a "worst kept secret" of all police forces.

While I have seen "officials" deny such quotas, I have had individual LEO's admit they are there in run around forms (IE no bonus if not enough tickets per month)

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/05/02/marni-soupcoff-think-police-really-dont-have-ticket-quotas-check-out-these-leaks/

"A leaked memo recently sent by Sgt. Wanda DeCoste to officers in Toronto’s 31 Division reminds them that traffic enforcement officers are expected to write 25 tickets a day, and “accident car officers” are expected to write at least 10 tickets a day, provided they are not dealing with any collisions.

And yet, Toronto police still insist there are no quotas in place. Deputy Chief Peter Sloly offered this helpful distinction when talking with the Toronto Star: “No, there’s no quota. But there is an expectation.” (Clears it all up, doesn’t it?)È

Thats called common sense if you went to a lawer you would expect him to show work for so many hours. Proof of doing the job is not a con guys...