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Adrik wrote: The tau have to have bases. They have to store ammunition, they have to have a place to treat their wounded, they have to have places to fix damage vehicles, places for their soldiers to eat and sleep, and places to refuel.
You're right, they do. Those bases are starships in orbit and/or bases on an entirely different continent, thousands of miles from any fighting. In fact, given Tau strategic mobility, those bases might be just as easy to pack up and move by Manta/Orca as the rest of the Tau army.
An army that doesn't have a FOB, doesn't have a main base, doesn't have supply depots, doesn't have hospitals, and doesn't have a line of battle isn't an army.
Why do you insist on applying real-world strategic rules to an army that does not care about real-world limits on mobility? In the real world we have FOBs, supply depots, etc, because we don't have the equivalent of the Manta. The Tau don't have the same need for fixed bases and lines because a supply base thousands of miles from the fighting is only slightly less convenient than one right next door.
They beat the Avenging Sons because they realized that super numbers and constant pressure was needed.
Slight nitpick: they beat the Avenging Sons because they won the battle before a single shot was fired. The target of the attack was already elsewhere, and the best-case outcome for the marines was being able to escape without taking too many losses.
I own a Forge World Warlord Titan. The Warlord Titan has a rule called World Burner which allows it to attack and destroy terrain which includes Battlefield debris.
No it doesn't. It lets you place the template over terrain (for example, to kill an invisible unit hiding in the terrain), it doesn't give you any rules to destroy terrain that you can't already destroy with normal weapons. Not that this matters, since game mechanics are not fluff.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/11/27 05:49:31
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
Ok, regarding Tau tactics.
First off, there is quite a number of historical examples where retreating was or came to be an integral part of victory. Napoleon's 1812 Russian campaign and Rommel's march to Egypt are 2 such examples.
Second, even if those tactics do not work at bigger then squad levels, where in the campaign we see anything at more then squad levels of action? To be more precise, those tactics are described as used against small Marine contingents that were roaming without immediate support (although there were instances where air power was called in).
Another thing, concerning suspension of disbelief: taking "extensively augmented humans can only feel cold detached curiosity" or anything like this as an axiom is illogical opinion. Sufficiently advanced machine can experience any emotion needed, and probably a hundred more unaccessible to puny fleshy brain. Same goes to an augmented brain.
Also, for any body who own Mont'ka, do you mind spoiling it and telling me who wins? I've pre ordered the book but I can't handle the anticipation! Thanks in advance.
123ply: Dataslate- 4/4/3/3/1/3/1/8/6+
Autopistol, Steel Extendo, Puma Hoodie
USRs: "Preferred Enemy: Xenos"
"Hatred: Xenos"
"Racist and Proud of it" - Gains fleshbane, rending, rage, counter-attack, and X2 strength and toughness when locked in combat with units not in the "Imperium of Man" faction.
Yea, I could, though my German's rusty these days. Which heirloom? Or do you mean all of it? The part in bold font roughly translates to this:
Every one of the following described items is both a valuable relic from the history of Cadia as well as an artifact of the war, that for several years was awarded to those who were worthy enough to carry them into battle. None of the following items can appear more than once in an army.
I can translate the rest tomorrow, it's fun but off-topic
Celeritas ............... 10 points
Spoiler:
Celeritas was a gift from the Chapter Master Admeus of the Ultramarines to Castellan Grift, after the 57th Cadian supported the Ultramarines during the Siege of Ygdraverre. The perfectly balanced chainsword was made by Talassarian craftsmen and is among the best weapons of its kind in the whole Imperium. Cadian officers have already struck down Chaos Space Marines and Exarchs with this wondrous chainsword in hand, without even getting a scratch.
Deadly Riposite: When a model is fighting in a challenge and is carrying Celeritas, it has an armour save of 4+. For every successful save the model rolls in a challenge, it can immediately carry out an attack with Celeritas that automatically hits and has the special rule armour piercing. The attacks are carried out even if the model is killed through unsuccessful saving rolls.
The Iron Left ........ 25 Points
Spoiler:
This bionic limb was originally an artificial arm made for the heroic Cadian lieutenant and renowned fistfigher Grigor "Bomber" Hass. Part of this unique device is also an energy (power) sword with a nerve interface, that can be directly connected with the fist. Through its hydraulics, the limb possesses enormous power, and so every thrust of the sword and every brutal left hook is strong enough, to split even a heavily armoured Space Marine in two halves.
Reach: -
S: 2+
DS: 3
Type: Melee
The Standard of the Fallen 113th .................. 30 points
Spoiler:
During the terrible time of the 12th Black Crusade, the 113th Cadian Infantry regiment stood by the defence of the Forgeworld Gamanede against an overwhelming foe. Despite the curse that supposedly weighed on the regiment, it fought bravely and with honour. It held out twelve days against a flood of traitors and only fell on the thirteenth. The regimental standard was retrieved and has since been a proud symbol of Cadian invincibility even in the face of overwhelming odds.
A veteran of your army that can carry a regimental standard can carry the standard of the Fallen 113th instead. This standard has the same rules as a regimental standard. At the beginning of your movement phase, you are allowed to declare that your carrier plants the standard and thinks of fighting to the last. The carrier's unit is not allowed to move, run, or attack for the rest of the game, but the unit and all allied Cadian units within 18 inches become fearless.
Kabe's Herald .............. 20 Points
Spoiler:
Knight Commander Kabe's sharp command tone resounded with absolute authority out of the Vox casters of his tank crew and ensured time and time again, that they triumphed over their enemy. The Knight Commander eventually lost his life when a renegade Warhound Titan stomped on his Leman Russ. His upgraded high-performance Vox caster however, was recovered from the rubble. In battle, one can still hear the voice of the old Knight Commander amid the Vox static. It sends orders, that support his still living descendants, and contributes to the tanks of Cadia achieving victory once more.
A tank commander of your army can be equipped with Kabe's Herald. When a model equipped with Kabe's Herald, uses its special rule Tank Commands, you are allowed to freely select further Leman Russ squadrons within 12 inches. The chosen squadrons are also affected by the Tank Command, as if they were part of the unit of the Tank Commander. If the Tank Commander issues the order "Gunners, Fire on Sight!," every other squadron that is also affected gets for the duration of the phase, the special rule Split fire.
Volkov's Walking Stick ........ 10 points
Spoiler:
Despite the shock field generators in its head, the greatest value of the walking stick lies therein, that it strengthens the morale of the troops. Every Cadian knows the story of Castellan Volkov, who during the evacuation of Dortengrav stood alone before the monstrous Ork-Warboss Wirb'lkaua ("Spine Chewer" ) - with nothing but a walking stick. Volkov took the classic combat stance and fought a few long and desperate minutes against the giant Greenskin, while the last refugees were hastedly brought to safety. Although the death of Castellan through the hand of his raging foe was unavoidable, his heroic act became of a legend of Cadia. Every officer who is deemed worthy enough to carry the walking stick, can be assured of the respect and obedience of all near him.
Only the Company Commander. When a model with Volkov's Walking Stick issues an order to a unit within 6 inches, the morale test only fails when a double six is rolled.
Range: -
S: carrier
DS: 4
Type: Melee, Shocking
Wrath of Cadia ............... 5 points
Spoiler:
Although this noteworthy firearm resembles an excellently worked/crafted Laspistol, it actually contains arcane technological secrets, through which its beam more closely resembles a miniature lance. During its time the weapon could strike down truly monstrous foes, including a mighty Biotitan of the Tyranids.
Penetrating:
A weapon with this special rule always wounds with 4+. When rolling armour saves against a weapon with this special rule, every roll that is 3 or less misrolls automatically, even when the armour save of the target is 3+ or better.
Okay, I've fully translated the whole thing now. Enjoy!
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2015/11/28 04:58:48
And the Angels of Darkness descended on pinions of fire and light... the great and terrible dark angels.
He was not the golden lord. The Emperor will carry us to the stars, but never beyond them. My dreams will be lies, if a golden lord does not rise.
I look to the stars now, with the old scrolls burning runes across my memory. And I see my own hands as I write these words. Erebus and Kor Phaeron speak the truth.
Yea, I could, though my German's rusty these days. Which heirloom? Or do you mean all of it? The part in bold font roughly translates to this:
Every one of the following described items is both a valuable relic from the history of Cadia as well as an artifact of the war, that for several years was awarded to those who were worthy to carry it into battle. None of the following items can appear more than once in an army.
Yes please! If you don't mind. Or if anything, I'm most interested in the war gear which have stats to them. There's seems to be a Las pistol on there worth 5 points with a new usr it seems. If you can, translate as much as you can, but you don't have to, I'm mostly interested in the war gear items. Specifically the Las pistol. Thanks!!!
123ply: Dataslate- 4/4/3/3/1/3/1/8/6+
Autopistol, Steel Extendo, Puma Hoodie
USRs: "Preferred Enemy: Xenos"
"Hatred: Xenos"
"Racist and Proud of it" - Gains fleshbane, rending, rage, counter-attack, and X2 strength and toughness when locked in combat with units not in the "Imperium of Man" faction.
123ply wrote: Yes please! If you don't mind. Or if anything, I'm most interested in the war gear which have stats to them. There's seems to be a Las pistol on there worth 5 points with a new usr it seems. If you can, translate as much as you can, but you don't have to, I'm mostly interested in the war gear items. Specifically the Las pistol. Thanks!!!
Okay, you got it
I've updated my last post with the Laspistol. I'll add the rest when I can so check back later. Keep in mind this is mostly a literal translation with some changes in sentence structure (otherwise it won't make sense in English).
And the Angels of Darkness descended on pinions of fire and light... the great and terrible dark angels.
He was not the golden lord. The Emperor will carry us to the stars, but never beyond them. My dreams will be lies, if a golden lord does not rise.
I look to the stars now, with the old scrolls burning runes across my memory. And I see my own hands as I write these words. Erebus and Kor Phaeron speak the truth.
I have read some...apparent leaks concerning Mont'ka. I am unwilling to commit to any as super-solid but...I need to vent over one of them so I'll put it under a spoiler with a proviso that I am not confident these leaks are 100%.
Spoiler:
It seems Aun'va does die. It appears Farsight saves Shadowsun from a Vindicare. There is some really weird thing at the end where the Imperium uses a Warp-Interdiction Missile on the Tau. Shadowsun apparently blows off Ko'sarro's leg but he survives. Then...although no doubt to most others a tiny thing, something I must just vent about; only one member of the Eight dies and it is Torchstar. Killed by Shrike. Now I don't mind Shrike getting a kill, even one of the Eight, but...but why the only other female of importance in the entire Tau Empire? Shrike could have killed Bravestorm or Oblotai or O'vesa. The number of females in the fluff who are actually competent fighters just continually shrinks with moves like these. Ugh. It's just a personal disappointment to me. The Tau and Dark Eldar were some of the only factions to in recent fluff have their female combatants be written about and actually documented. I would have enjoyed seeing more of that. The Tau have a ton of males already, the entire Eight all being male barring Torchstar I always felt was a little unnecessary since its been made clear Tau females are common in the higher ranks with both Shadowsun, her sisters, Farsight's original commander and such, whereas Torchstar was an up and coming new female with an incredibly your spoor in the fluff. I really wish that it didn't feel like female characters are getting culled from he fighting. Makes me concerned about Shadowsun, Jain Zar, Celestine and Lelith as the only badass females left. Anyway as I said none of this is for certain. I hope the thing about Torchstar is incorrect.
Survivor19 wrote:Ok, regarding Tau tactics.
First off, there is quite a number of historical examples where retreating was or came to be an integral part of victory. Napoleon's 1812 Russian campaign and Rommel's march to Egypt are 2 such examples.
Second, even if those tactics do not work at bigger then squad levels, where in the campaign we see anything at more then squad levels of action? To be more precise, those tactics are described as used against small Marine contingents that were roaming without immediate support (although there were instances where air power was called in).
Another thing, concerning suspension of disbelief: taking "extensively augmented humans can only feel cold detached curiosity" or anything like this as an axiom is illogical opinion. Sufficiently advanced machine can experience any emotion needed, and probably a hundred more unaccessible to puny fleshy brain. Same goes to an augmented brain.
The issue isn't that machines can't feel emotions, it's that the book directly stated that the Archmagos's neural pathways had been modified to the point that he can no longer feel love, his brain has had so many neural implants that he literally doesn't have the chemicals that cause fear, and a host of other neural changes to the point where he has had most of his emotions basically just... removed. Then he turns around and still feels emotions that he has literally laughed at other Tech-Priests for feeling, even after he has had his brain surgically altered to the point that this is impossible.
To quote a fictional character... "Let's make this fun!"
Tactical_Spam wrote: There was a story in the SM omnibus where a single kroot killed 2-3 marines then ate their gene seed and became a Kroot-startes.
Anemone wrote: I have read some...apparent leaks concerning Mont'ka. I am unwilling to commit to any as super-solid but...I need to vent over one of them so I'll put it under a spoiler with a proviso that I am not confident these leaks are 100%.
Spoiler:
It seems Aun'va does die. It appears Farsight saves Shadowsun from a Vindicare. There is some really weird thing at the end where the Imperium uses a Warp-Interdiction Missile on the Tau. Shadowsun apparently blows off Ko'sarro's leg but he survives. Then...although no doubt to most others a tiny thing, something I must just vent about; only one member of the Eight dies and it is Torchstar. Killed by Shrike. Now I don't mind Shrike getting a kill, even one of the Eight, but...but why the only other female of importance in the entire Tau Empire? Shrike could have killed Bravestorm or Oblotai or O'vesa. The number of females in the fluff who are actually competent fighters just continually shrinks with moves like these. Ugh. It's just a personal disappointment to me. The Tau and Dark Eldar were some of the only factions to in recent fluff have their female combatants be written about and actually documented. I would have enjoyed seeing more of that. The Tau have a ton of males already, the entire Eight all being male barring Torchstar I always felt was a little unnecessary since its been made clear Tau females are common in the higher ranks with both Shadowsun, her sisters, Farsight's original commander and such, whereas Torchstar was an up and coming new female with an incredibly your spoor in the fluff. I really wish that it didn't feel like female characters are getting culled from he fighting. Makes me concerned about Shadowsun, Jain Zar, Celestine and Lelith as the only badass females left. Anyway as I said none of this is for certain. I hope the thing about Torchstar is incorrect.
I kinda want to make a new Warzone Damocles: Discussion thread. in the OP do a summary of the basics.
I really hope going forward the new Lore and units for the TAU extend to there allies, Kroot/vespid getting suits there own specialized suits, and the other races in the TAU. To show that the TAU aren't just strong through there innovation, but through the diversity of their alliances.
Anemone wrote: I have read some...apparent leaks concerning Mont'ka. I am unwilling to commit to any as super-solid but...I need to vent over one of them so I'll put it under a spoiler with a proviso that I am not confident these leaks are 100%.
Spoiler:
It seems Aun'va does die. It appears Farsight saves Shadowsun from a Vindicare. There is some really weird thing at the end where the Imperium uses a Warp-Interdiction Missile on the Tau. Shadowsun apparently blows off Ko'sarro's leg but he survives. Then...although no doubt to most others a tiny thing, something I must just vent about; only one member of the Eight dies and it is Torchstar. Killed by Shrike. Now I don't mind Shrike getting a kill, even one of the Eight, but...but why the only other female of importance in the entire Tau Empire? Shrike could have killed Bravestorm or Oblotai or O'vesa. The number of females in the fluff who are actually competent fighters just continually shrinks with moves like these. Ugh. It's just a personal disappointment to me. The Tau and Dark Eldar were some of the only factions to in recent fluff have their female combatants be written about and actually documented. I would have enjoyed seeing more of that. The Tau have a ton of males already, the entire Eight all being male barring Torchstar I always felt was a little unnecessary since its been made clear Tau females are common in the higher ranks with both Shadowsun, her sisters, Farsight's original commander and such, whereas Torchstar was an up and coming new female with an incredibly your spoor in the fluff. I really wish that it didn't feel like female characters are getting culled from he fighting. Makes me concerned about Shadowsun, Jain Zar, Celestine and Lelith as the only badass females left. Anyway as I said none of this is for certain. I hope the thing about Torchstar is incorrect.
I kinda want to make a new Warzone Damocles: Discussion thread. in the OP do a summary of the basics.
I really hope going forward the new Lore and units for the TAU extend to there allies, Kroot/vespid getting suits there own specialized suits, and the other races in the TAU. To show that the TAU aren't just strong through there innovation, but through the diversity of their alliances.
It would be awesome if the Tau got models for more of their allies. Make them into a very diverse force, with Nicassar fullfilling the role of Psykers (as they do in the Fluff), while the Galg, Demiurg, and the rest play their own roles. It would definitely make the Tau a more interesting army.
To quote a fictional character... "Let's make this fun!"
Tactical_Spam wrote: There was a story in the SM omnibus where a single kroot killed 2-3 marines then ate their gene seed and became a Kroot-startes.
Anemone wrote:
I have read some...apparent leaks concerning Mont'ka. I am unwilling to commit to any as super-solid but...I need to vent over one of them so I'll put it under a spoiler with a proviso that I am not confident these leaks are 100%.
Spoiler:
Anyway just thought I'd put that down here
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/27 20:20:39
Of course that's the one who dies. Character death only has meaning if the dead character is either loved or "vulnerable"... and none of the Eight are that well detailed.
"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad.
Yea, I could, though my German's rusty these days. Which heirloom? Or do you mean all of it? The part in bold font roughly translates to this:
Every one of the following described items is both a valuable relic from the history of Cadia as well as an artifact of the war, that for several years was awarded to those who were worthy to carry it into battle. None of the following items can appear more than once in an army.
Celeritas:
Spoiler:
Celeritas was a gift from the Chapter Master Admeus of the Ultramarines to Castellan Grift, after the 57. Cadia supported the Ultramarines during the Siege of Ygdraverre. The perfectly balanced chainsword was made by talassarian craftsmen and is among the best weapons of its kind in the whole Imperium. Cadian officers have already struck down Chaos Space Marines and Exarchs with this wondrous chainsword in hand, without even getting a scratch.
(entsetzt means horrified, didn't make sense in that context so I changed it to "supported." Could be came to the aid of, no idea)
I can translate the rest tomorrow, it's fun but off-topic
Wrath of Cadia:
Spoiler:
Although this noteworthy firearm resembles an excellently worked/crafted Laspistol, it actually contains arcane technological secrets, through which its beam more closely resembles a miniature lance. During its time the weapon could strike down truly monstrous foes, including a mighty Biotitan of the Tyranids.
A weapon with this special rule always wounds with 4+. When rolling armour saves against a weapon with this special rule, every roll that is 3 or less misrolls automatically, even when the armour save of the target is 3+ or better.
Wow, that's awesome.. I'll probably be switching my CCC'S plasma pistol to the Wrath of Cadia. Thanks alot for that translation!
Also, are there any relics that are basically buffed up power maul? My Warlord uses one and it'd be nice to get one that has some extra benefits. But once again, thank you TONS for your translations so far!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/27 21:49:04
123ply: Dataslate- 4/4/3/3/1/3/1/8/6+
Autopistol, Steel Extendo, Puma Hoodie
USRs: "Preferred Enemy: Xenos"
"Hatred: Xenos"
"Racist and Proud of it" - Gains fleshbane, rending, rage, counter-attack, and X2 strength and toughness when locked in combat with units not in the "Imperium of Man" faction.
I agree that more representation of the Tau's allies would be wonderful. Its been a pity to me that they've been virtually forgotten by the mechanics of the game and the Nicassar, Demiurg and Tarellians I think would make fantastic. I remember once thinking that a fluff story about a young Tarellian within a Tau world would be nice, being an expat myself, for telling a story of how Tau world can have numerous different species with their unique cultures and values existing on a world. It'd be something that talks to my own life experience with misunderstandings being rife, particularly in the beginning, and often no one meaning any offence but offence emerging anyway because of a difference in priorities or values. I'd find that interesting.
But yeah more units for them would be fun. Considering Kroot can build Warspheres I think it'd also only be fair for the Kroot to actually get some vehicle equivalents and heavier weapons to use.
@Furyou: That's also part of my problem.
Spoiler:
She's clearly chosen to die, she jumps in to save Farsight's life, because her death is the most 'tragic' or somehow more 'sad' than just a male member of the Eight dying. But I don't want GW to lapse into that kind of thinking because that kind of thinking is exactly what in many narratives sees the female characters eventually get side lined and excluded from fights. Its not meant, necessarily sometimes it could be, as an overtly negative action, often its done with good intentions, but the result is to reduce female combatants to an ever shrinking pool who eventually perform the role of nothing more than emotional support for their male counterpart. The Tau are a good example of this now; with both Shadowsun's Sisters and Torchstar dead the only major female left is Shadowsun. Unfortunately in Mont'ka she has just been reduced to 'Farsight's' second-in-command. But it is just a personal disappointment of mine. I do understand your point though.
EDIT: So this I'm confident is certain;
Spoiler:
-Farsight does not rejoin the Empire. He showed up to help Shadowsun save the day and then he departs with the implication that he and Shadowsun are now on better terms. The narrative ends with Farsight joining his Enclaves in battle against Hive Fleet Leviathen.
-Ko'sarro suffers no harm. He's pissed off but when Jubal Khan, his Chapter Master, orders him to come back to fight Huron he agrees.
-I can find no evidence of Shrike killing anyone or of any of the Eight dying so thank goodness, to me, that Torchstar is still around.
-For some reason the Adeptus Mechanicus are obsessed with the Stormsurge suits.
-The Obsidian Knight is literally invincible. As in, seriously, it destroys forces of Tau which are wrecking entire Imperial Armies but can't match the Obsidian Knight.
-Story is mostly just one Imperial Guard Commander, from Cadia, against Farsight and Shadowsun. No one else does much.
-Tau use forcefields which shield their planetary emplacements from Orbital Bombardment, forcing ground assaults, because said Planetary Installations pose a big threat to the Imperial Fleet.
-The Tau armada spends the entire book gathering itself, its spread thin, with the implication that when it is fully united again the Expeditionary Fleet can drive off the Imperial Attack Fleet.
-Culexus does kill Aun'va. Aun'va remains Aun'va to the end despite my optimism and does pretty much nothing in the story other than die anti-climatically.
-Darkstrider does kill the Vindicare who killed his Pathfinder Team.
-Longstrike survives, I'm unsure if Pask does because I could find no explicit mention of his death or survival.
-Aun'va's death is simply covered up by the High Command. Shadowsun and all the top Brass know but the Ethereal Council just uses a hologram of him to pretend he's alive for now.
-The Imperial Force fails in its mission. Task Force Retribution is disbanded and the implication is that the Warzone is over since we're told most of the military assets being used are being redistributed to more important Warzones; Chogoris, Hive Fleet Leviathen, Cadian Gate, Armageddon and such. At least half the Imperial Guard die because they are abandoned on Mu'gulath Bay and so when the Imperials bombard it again, killing everything not under a Tau Shield, they die.
-Before they leave though the Adeptus Mechanicus use a missile to ignite the Gas Clouds of the Damocles Gulf making travel much more difficult for the Tau. They can send communications freely but now they need to use new Shields to allow their Ships to move through the Gulf. Said Shields exist but in limited numbers right now.
No mention of Warp/Webway travel at all. Just that the Tau need to shield their ships moving through the Gulf now.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/28 03:34:30
123ply wrote: Wow, that's awesome.. I'll probably be switching my CCC'S plasma pistol to the Wrath of Cadia. Thanks alot for that translation!
Also, are there any relics that are basically buffed up power maul? My Warlord uses one and it'd be nice to get one that has some extra benefits. But once again, thank you TONS for your translations so far!
Hey, I've translated the rest of the page. Sorry, no power maul but there's a bionic arm as well as a walking stick that commands the respect of everyone around you (!).
And my pleasure, any excuse to put my rusty German to use is good.
Anemone wrote: Makes me concerned about Shadowsun, Jain Zar, Celestine and Lelith as the only badass females left. Anyway as I said none of this is for certain. I hope the thing about Torchstar is incorrect.
Hey, don't forget about Lady Malys! She's the most badass female around! She even cut out her own heart and can match Vect for wits. I really hope they make a model of her (but hopefully not a dreadful looking like a WFB Lahmian vampire with her 'steel fan' added... ugh).
And it's awesome that Aun'va dies. Finally, some big changes coming in the Tau Empire. I like to see things shaken up. And Farsight is awesome so its good he's playing a prominent role.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/28 05:05:46
And the Angels of Darkness descended on pinions of fire and light... the great and terrible dark angels.
He was not the golden lord. The Emperor will carry us to the stars, but never beyond them. My dreams will be lies, if a golden lord does not rise.
I look to the stars now, with the old scrolls burning runes across my memory. And I see my own hands as I write these words. Erebus and Kor Phaeron speak the truth.
True but Lady Malys was already downgraded from having Rules to only having a name. That means, in Fluff, you can count that they're prime candidates to die to make people with Rules look good. Case in point Chapter Master Corvin Severax.
Spoiler:
Farsight is, I should warn, not playing a prominent role. After the Imperial Forces retreat and launch their vengeance missiles, Farsight and Shadowsun have a chat in which Shadowsun says she believes that his coming to aide them was a noble thing to do and, thus, in return she will not attempt to capture him now but instead will repay his help by giving him a chance to leave. The two part, now on somewhat good terms, and he goes into battle against some part of Hive Fleet Leviathen threatening his Enclaves. He's unlikely to be involved in the Empire. The biggest change really was the idea that passing through the Damocles Gulf is now harder for the Tau. I'm actually not sure what GW's intention with it is. The end of the Book makes clear that its not a huge impediment to the Tau and that they aren't that worried so I'm not sure exactly what the impact in the Fluff will be. If there is any. As for Aun'va's death; Shadowsun and the other leaders of the Castes respond to it petty calmly, they use holograms of him to maintain the illusion that he is still alive until a time they feel will be better to break it to the population at large and then select an official successor. So the Empire's biggest change really is that it seems the war in the Damocles region has died down with them holding the worlds they captured, the Imperium withdrawing the bulk of its forces, but at the same time the difficulty of crossing the Damocles Gulf now making the Tau choose to slow down their expansion and consolidate their recently gained holdings in the Dovar System. Although I'll admit that seeing things shaken up I, also, must admit that anything involving the Tau doesn't really 'shake up' the narrative since they've got the smallest impact on the narrative at current. I'd prefer to see things amongst the big players; Imperium, Chaos, Necron and Orks shaken up more than the Tau.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/11/28 05:43:36
Anemone wrote: True but Lady Malys was already downgraded from having Rules to only having a name. That means, in Fluff, you can count that they're prime candidates to die to make people with Rules look good. Case in point Chapter Master Corvin Severax.
Well, I hope not, as the DE could really use more female characters. Otherwise there's only Lelith, and Vect has undisputed control of the city, which is kinda boring. And I like that the two have a past and that she is being aided by some unknown entity (and has been spied on talking to herself with an alien voice ).
Farsight is, I should warn, not playing a prominent role. After the Imperial Forces retreat and launch their vengeance missiles, Farsight and Shadowsun have a chat in which Shadowsun says she believes that his coming to aide them was a noble thing to do and, thus, in return she will not attempt to capture him now but instead will repay his help by giving him a chance to leave. The two part, now on somewhat good terms, and he goes into battle against some part of Hive Fleet Leviathen threatening his Enclaves. He's unlikely to be involved in the Empire.
This is cool. The Farsight Enclaves should remain a distinct faction from the Tau Empire, and the two leaving on good terms is cool too. Makes Shadowsun more likable and less like an Ethereal puppet.
Although I'll admit that seeing things shaken up I, also, must admit that anything involving the Tau doesn't really 'shake up' the narrative since they've got the smallest impact on the narrative at current. I'd prefer to see things amongst the big players; Imperium, Chaos, Necron and Orks shaken up more than the Tau.
Fair enough, but the Tau really need to lose their naivety if they want to have any hope of shaking up the big players. Which is why shaking their core beliefs in the invincibility of the Greater Good and manifest destiny is essential for them to mature as a faction (as in, they need to realize how many other factions have already dominated the galaxy at some point in their history and fallen despite that). They don't realize how insignificant they are, which means they'll only fail when they meet truly challenging odds if they don't realize what they're dealing with.
The biggest change really was the idea that passing through the Damocles Gulf is now harder for the Tau. I'm actually not sure what GW's intention with it is. The end of the Book makes clear that its not a huge impediment to the Tau and that they aren't that worried so I'm not sure exactly what the impact in the Fluff will be. If there is any. As for Aun'va's death; Shadowsun and the other leaders of the Castes respond to it petty calmly, they use holograms of him to maintain the illusion that he is still alive until a time they feel will be better to break it to the population at large and then select an official successor. So the Empire's biggest change really is that it seems the war in the Damocles region has died down with them holding the worlds they captured, the Imperium withdrawing the bulk of its forces, but at the same time the difficulty of crossing the Damocles Gulf now making the Tau choose to slow down their expansion and consolidate their recently gained holdings in the Dovar System.
Well, that kinda sucks that they're keeping it secret but that also means the truth can still come out eventually. The intention with the Gulf might be that the Tau need to step up their game to join the ranks of the big players. It's an escalation. I like it.
And the Angels of Darkness descended on pinions of fire and light... the great and terrible dark angels.
He was not the golden lord. The Emperor will carry us to the stars, but never beyond them. My dreams will be lies, if a golden lord does not rise.
I look to the stars now, with the old scrolls burning runes across my memory. And I see my own hands as I write these words. Erebus and Kor Phaeron speak the truth.
So the Imperium holds the gilded worlds, the task force fails, and the tau break fluff and don't gak themselves when the greatest of Ethereals die.
And, while retreating, the imperium flips the tau the bird and lights a nebula on fire.
Aight.
warboss wrote: Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
@EngulfedObject: We can agree to disagree about the Tau needing to lose their naivety. Personally commitment to an ideological cause, simply because it seems idealistic or leaning towards transcendental answers, doesn't need to be naïve, it can simply be a great onus they put on themselves to try to improve things without succumbing to cynicism on the scale of the other galactic hegemons. Even if doomed to failure it is laudable. And who knows, nothing but change is certain, maybe it works for them one day. That might just make all the sacrifice worth it. Maybe. Regardless its just a matter of opinion I've never seen that Tau as 'naïve' simply ignorant of many things. I see them simply as committing to a different ideological view of existence. Part of what I liked about the ending of the Fire Warrior Novel is Kais' loss of faith and his subsequent back-and-forth with Lusha eventually helping him to regain faith in it not as an absolute doctrine but instead as a regulatory ideal.
But as for the Aun'va thing, yeah, the implication is just that since the Damocles Gulf becoming a Firestorm already panicked many of the Tau the Empire chose to reveal the death of Aun'va at a latter date. Since Ethereal Supremes have died in the past there's nothing calamitous about the announcement of an Ethereal Supreme's death, but it could be calamitous to have it happen so soon after the disaster at Agrellan. But I doubt this plot thread will be picked up again until the next Tau Codex (which is probably some way off) and I'm genuinely curious if they'll create a new special character to replace Aun'va or simply an in-Fluff named Character.
As for the Gulf the problem is that...the only thing it seems to be escalating is that the Tau are now putting Shields on Ships to move through the corrosive gases. It doesn't seem like a particularly big escalation. But regardless the Tau did hold onto all the worlds they've claimed recently even in the face of overwhelming odds so that in of itself I suppose is impressive.
@Crazyterran: The Tau don't gak themselves because the majority don't know. Remember an Ethereal Supreme dying, though bad, doesn't mean the entire civilization collapses (Aun'wei and other Ethereal Supremes do after all die). The problem is that the Morale was simply already low and thus they wished to preserve some of it by projecting the image that Aun'va is still alive. The Book explains that Aun'va is seen by the Tau and the other aliens of the Empire has a symbol of their Unity and thus having him give a speech helps mitigate the wounds caused by the latest attacks. I will admit a pity we never got Shadowsun's personal take on Aun'va's death since prior Fluff, like last of Kiru's Line, had built up that Aun'va sought to cultivate a very personal relationship with Shadowsun, but I don't expect deep emotional introspection from a Warhammer 40k Narrative Supplement even if I would like it.
EDIT: Just some more nuggets for those who are interested;
Spoiler:
Pask does survive, both him and Longstrike do. Longstrike is also the Tau equivalent of a grieving widow. After the loss of his Bondmates on T'ros he has sworn to never perform the Bonding Ritual again. Sadly both the Cadian commanders who are in overall command are killed. The Lord Commander, as far as I can read, is slain by his superiors whilst the Field Commander, a pretty cool guy who fought really well and Farsight admired as a worthy nemesis, is purposefully left on the planet to die by his superiors for failing to kill the Tau. Shadowsun is saved from the Callidus Assassin because of a Pathfinder Shas'ui who gives his life for her. Sadly no mention of Sternshield or Swiftflame but, that's unsurprising, they're with the other half of the expeditionary force fighting in the Dovar System whereas in this only the half left behind on Mu'gulath Bay get involved.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/28 07:42:56
Anemone wrote: @EngulfedObject: We can agree to disagree about the Tau needing to lose their naivety. Personally commitment to an ideological cause, simply because it seems idealistic or leaning towards transcendental answers, doesn't need to be naïve, it can simply be a great onus they put on themselves to try to improve things without succumbing to cynicism on the scale of the other galactic hegemons. Even if doomed to failure it is laudable. And who knows, nothing but change is certain, maybe it works for them one day. That might just make all the sacrifice worth it. Maybe. Regardless its just a matter of opinion I've never seen that Tau as 'naïve' simply ignorant of many things. I see them simply as committing to a different ideological view of existence. Part of what I liked about the ending of the Fire Warrior Novel is Kais' loss of faith and his subsequent back-and-forth with Lusha eventually helping him to regain faith in it not as an absolute doctrine but instead as a regulatory ideal.
Well the Tau are shown to be pretty naive in their own codex when they ask the Eldar to join the Greater Good (under the leadership of the Ethereals no less) and the Eldar laugh in their faces. They're shown to be extremely naive when dealing with the Dark Eldar. And they're naive when they think they've killed the Space Marine "King."
078.902.M41
A day of celebration on Ka'mais. Necrons led by Anrakyr the Traveller land on the colony world to be greeted in great ceremony by the honoured Ethereal Aun'taniel. (Codex: Tyranids - 5th Edition, 21; Codex: Necrons - 5th Edition, 62)
079.902.M41 - The Harvest of Ka'mais
Aun'taniel is slain by Necron invaders. The Harvest of Ka'mais begins. (Codex: Tyranids - 5th Edition, 21)
And their ignorance is not laudable when they're not even aware of Chaos! This is just another disaster waiting to happen. So yea, I'm definitely agreeing to disagree with you on that.
Crazyterran wrote: So the Imperium holds the gilded worlds, the task force fails, and the tau break fluff and don't gak themselves when the greatest of Ethereals die.
And, while retreating, the imperium flips the tau the bird and lights a nebula on fire.
Aight.
And the Angels of Darkness descended on pinions of fire and light... the great and terrible dark angels.
He was not the golden lord. The Emperor will carry us to the stars, but never beyond them. My dreams will be lies, if a golden lord does not rise.
I look to the stars now, with the old scrolls burning runes across my memory. And I see my own hands as I write these words. Erebus and Kor Phaeron speak the truth.
Yes its true there approach to a new alien race isn't to exterminate it on principle. They don't open discovery of a new civilization and species by eradicating it but with negotiation. Has it cost them? Yes, like the examples you just listed. That's why I said;
That might just make all the sacrifice worth it. Maybe.
But the thing to remember is that, because they don't eradicate all alien life (or even dissenting life like the Farsight Enclaves) on principle for Heresy and such that each time they meet a race; Eldar, Dark Eldar and Necron, who take advantage of that to kill them they also meet a race who doesn't do so; Jia'trix, Kroot, Demiurg, Nicassar and such. Maybe this approach will bear fruit eventually, maybe it will doom them to extinction, but I respect that they make the effort not to slide down the cynical slope till they dismiss all other life as expedient to them.
There is far more, to me, Grimdarkness to be found in a civilization striving not to enact xenocide and enslavement on a universe where the primary hegemons seek to enact it upon them, than in simply emulating the ways of those who have come before. A human civilian conquered by the Tau knows that he'll be allowed to live, allowed to follow what religion he wants and even be afforded better amenities often. Certainly he will be repressed in some ways, no worse or better than he was in the Imperium, but it would be a lie to say he is perfectly free or unfettered. But a Tau civilian cannot be conquered by the Imperium because they will kill all of them. Every last child, man, woman, elderly and infirm will be killed. Yet despite the fact that when the Imperium conquers a world of the Tau Empire they wipe out all alien life on it down to the last innocent the Tau Empire still chooses to, when conquering a human world, not genocide its entire population. In real life conflict where one side commits atrocities breeds atrocities. After all if your people are made to suffer usually you wish to respond in kind by making the innocents of your foe suffer. Yet despite the fact that the Imperium wipes out every Tau or Alien member of the Tau Empire they find the Tau Empire still does not follow the same approach towards humans of the Imperium. That is Grimdark to me. That's a story I find compelling. Its the more difficult path, the more arduous route, but they choose to traverse it nonetheless. I find that actually very intriguing. Because one can very validly ask...should they? There are easier options which would no doubt spare the lives of more Tau and member races at the cost of innocent humans. Is there not perhaps a moral onus then to rather use the more brutal methods.
Its well demonstrated in the Short Story 'Hunters' where a Catachan resistance group on Cyntheria attempt to assassinate an Ethereal. When the approach the Tau Complex where the Ethereal will be the main character is confused as the Tau have built their compound next to the city in such a way that it does not destroy or inconvenience any of the existing homes or buildings. The Catachan doesn't get this since it leaves the Tau building strategically indefensible because it is surrounded by structures. He even wonders why the Tau would not simply bulldoze the city and its inhabitants in order to build a more defensible construction. He contemplates to himself that he'd heard Tau were smart so he can't understand why they haven't destroyed the entire city to make a more defendable fortress. Its actually a genuine moral quandary. Should the Tau not perhaps be more brutal? Why extend clemency and leniency to people who are unlikely to extend the same to you? Taros, for example, has the Tau choose not to kill captured officers and soldiers of the Imperial Guard, the Shas'o specifically chooses to spare an Imperial Commander, and it is thanks to this that the Ethereal later dies. I find that a fascinating moral quandary and interesting topic. Why do the Tau not choose to simply kill all aliens like their foes do?
Certainly you can call it naïve, and I won't object to it, but to me its more than simply a matter of being 'naïve'. It's a wilful decision, a choice to react to things in a certain way. That's what's compelling about it to me and why I don't just see it as pure naivety but instead has...compelling to read. But this is just me.
Additionally I did not say their ignorance was laudable, simply that they were ignorant. Learning about Chaos is, hopefully, something they will do. When they do hopefully Farsight from Fire and Ice is right and they can confront it by denying their selfish impulses and staring back unblinking. Maybe they cannot but reading the attempt to do so without emulating the xenocidal empires of ages past is genuinely compelling. To me in any case.
EDIT: But I'm getting way off track with my philosophical musing so I'll stop there. I don't want to derail this thread again so apologies for that.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/11/28 09:02:21
But the thing to remember is that, because they don't eradicate all alien life (or even dissenting life like the Farsight Enclaves) on principle for Heresy and such that each time they meet a race; Eldar, Dark Eldar and Necron, who take advantage of that to kill them they also meet a race who doesn't do so; Jia'trix, Kroot, Demiurg, Nicassar and such. Maybe this approach will bear fruit eventually, maybe it will doom them to extinction, but I respect that they make the effort not to slide down the cynical slope till they dismiss all other life as expedient to them.
There is far more, to me, Grimdarkness to be found in a civilization striving not to enact xenocide and enslavement on a universe where the primary hegemons seek to enact it upon them, than in simply emulating the ways of those who have come before. A human civilian conquered by the Tau knows that he'll be allowed to live, allowed to follow what religion he wants and even be afforded better amenities often. Certainly he will be repressed in some ways, no worse or better than he was in the Imperium, but it would be a lie to say he is perfectly free or unfettered. But a Tau civilian cannot be conquered by the Imperium because they will kill all of them. Every last child, man, woman, elderly and infirm will be killed. Yet despite the fact that when the Imperium conquers a world of the Tau Empire they wipe out all alien life on it down to the last innocent the Tau Empire still chooses to, when conquering a human world, not genocide its entire population. In real life conflict where one side commits atrocities breeds atrocities. After all if your people are made to suffer usually you wish to respond in kind by making the innocents of your foe suffer. Yet despite the fact that the Imperium wipes out every Tau or Alien member of the Tau Empire they find the Tau Empire still does not follow the same approach towards humans of the Imperium. That is Grimdark to me. That's a story I find compelling. Its the more difficult path, the more arduous route, but they choose to traverse it nonetheless. I find that actually very intriguing. Because one can very validly ask...should they? There are easier options which would no doubt spare the lives of more Tau and member races at the cost of innocent humans. Is there not perhaps a moral onus then to rather use the more brutal methods.
From the realpolitik angle, such mercy has PR value. The main threat of the Tau to the Imperium is ideological, not military. The human worlds that first encountered and traded with the Tau in the very 1st Tau Codex are described as getting more efficient farming equipment. Imagine that for a moment. Technology not under the monopoly of the Adeptus Mechanicusm, that works without prayer and ritual, and which improves the quality of life for the human population. Humans joining the Tau may not be equals, but they certainly would seem to benefit from a vastly improved material standard of living. When the teeming throngs of the hive cities of the Imperium are living in the equivalent of a 19th century mill town, living a dreary hand to mouth existence, the carrot of a better way of life under the Tau may certainly be appealing. Although Imperial propaganda against consorting with aliens is widespread, we know that this does not stop people from doing so anyway as people are people, motivated by greed, curiosity, etc... Then if they get a taste of the good life, they may start thinking "Hey maybe these aliens aren't that bad after all." The yoke of Tau rule takes a different form than the Imperium, and in the end still appears a lighter one to bear. The threat of the Tau is showing that an alternative way of life is seemingly possible for humanity, without the superstition of the Adeptus Mechanicus, and without the enforced brutality of the Imperium. The Imperium justifies its policies as necessary for survival but the Tau threaten that by showing maybe they aren't.
I think the Tau will invent FTL drive by the time of the next codex.
A reckoning is coming Imperium. I thought with time that perhaps the Imperium kind would "get with the program". You know maybe realize that teamwork could work or even the value of a life. Instead you set fire to a nebula and essentially throw the sub sector away with that one move.
With that one move the Imperium has shown it has the power and stupidity to eradicate itself and all life. With that one act they are now more evil than the Dark Eldar. I'll offer peace any day of the week with a DE, I'll go to lunch with a Tyranid, and I'll even try teach an Ork Tau Poetry.
There is one thing I will never do however. I will suffer not an Imperial to live. For they are now the greatest threat to all life in the universe. I would rather the Tyranids eat everything than see the Imperium win. The Imperium would see life stripped form the galaxy before they lose, and if they were about to they would do their best to end the ability for life to live.
Even the Tyranids, Dark Eldar, Chaos, and Necrons need life. It's the most minimum thing they can all agree on and fight over who gets the best tasting piece. I've now seen the lengths they'll go to live one day.
If I was an Ethereal I would make an immediate motion to deem the Imperium beyond redemption and cut off all further attempts at diplomacy and integration.
@Gamgee: You see I'm the exact opposite. The fact that the Tau don't have a philosophy of 'suffer not the X to live' is interesting to me. I much prefer it to what you're suggesting.
Also I disagree about the Imperium being worse than Orks and Tyranid. Both of those are also threats of equal measure at least to all life in the Galaxy. There's no way to say the Imperium is worse than Orks or Tyranids. As for Dark Eldar, interestingly, in the Aun'Shi short story Aun'shi makes clear that he considers Dark Eldar to be the single worst life form, dubbing them anti-tau or Co'Tau because they are predicated on the fulfilment of their selfish whims whereas the Tau'va is predicated on rejection of selfishness at the individual level. So I don't think the Tau will be making any negotiations with the Dark Eldar anytime soon. Casting any one faction in a universally bad light doesn't help anyone.
Also the Tyranid will leave the galaxy more dead than any other victor. Imperials will leave humans alive, Chaos will leave enough life to feed itself, Necron are now willing to allow aliens to live as long as they become vassals, Tyranid are the only faction which will literally wipe out all biological life if they win. Only the Necron would be alright since, presumably, the Chaos Gods would die once their potential worshippers are dead.
@Iracundus: I understand what you say but, to me, the value definitely doesn't always seem worth it. That's why I find it compelling. It seems motivated by more than simply a calculation of rational benefit.
@EngulfedObject: But regardless I really didn't want to lead to this kind of conversation. Engulfed if you do wish to discuss this with me more lets rather do it by PM so that we can keep this thread on topic. My apologies for my role in the derailing.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/11/28 11:04:56
@EngulfedObject: But regardless I really didn't want to lead to this kind of conversation. Engulfed if you do wish to discuss this with me more lets rather do it by PM so that we can keep this thread on topic. My apologies for my role in the derailing.
Oh it's cool man, I wasn't trying to start an argument, just nitpicking about that naivety point. I actually like what you're saying, it's an interesting and different perspective from mine. Will have to think about what you've said
But I actually thought we were kinda on topic
Gamgee wrote: There is one thing I will never do however. I will suffer not an Imperial to live. For they are now the greatest threat to all life in the universe. I would rather the Tyranids eat everything than see the Imperium win. The Imperium would see life stripped form the galaxy before they lose, and if they were about to they would do their best to end the ability for life to live.
"An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded."
Ironically, you would make a great Imperial citizen if you just replaced "Imperial" with Xenos. You'll miss all the sights if you cruise through life with a narrow-minded view like that! And if the Imperium would like to see all life stripped from the galaxy before they lose, and you'd let the Tyrannids strip the galaxy of all life to stop the Imperium from winning, then what difference is there, really?
Gamgee wrote: With that one move the Imperium has shown it has the power and stupidity to eradicate itself and all life. With that one act they are now more evil than the Dark Eldar. I'll offer peace any day of the week with a DE, I'll go to lunch with a Tyranid, and I'll even try teach an Ork Tau Poetry.
You do not try to teach an Ork poetry.
Oh and about the Dark Eldar...
"Do not offer them riches, they care not for your coin. Do not offer them surrender, they care not for victory. Offer them nothing, for they come only to murder."
And the Angels of Darkness descended on pinions of fire and light... the great and terrible dark angels.
He was not the golden lord. The Emperor will carry us to the stars, but never beyond them. My dreams will be lies, if a golden lord does not rise.
I look to the stars now, with the old scrolls burning runes across my memory. And I see my own hands as I write these words. Erebus and Kor Phaeron speak the truth.
She's clearly chosen to die, she jumps in to save Farsight's life, because her death is the most 'tragic' or somehow more 'sad' than just a male member of the Eight dying. But I don't want GW to lapse into that kind of thinking because that kind of thinking is exactly what in many narratives sees the female characters eventually get side lined and excluded from fights. Its not meant, necessarily sometimes it could be, as an overtly negative action, often its done with good intentions, but the result is to reduce female combatants to an ever shrinking pool who eventually perform the role of nothing more than emotional support for their male counterpart. The Tau are a good example of this now; with both Shadowsun's Sisters and Torchstar dead the only major female left is Shadowsun. Unfortunately in Mont'ka she has just been reduced to 'Farsight's' second-in-command. But it is just a personal disappointment of mine. I do understand your point though.
Oh, I wasn't defending it - I guess the sarcasm of my post didn't come through properly. ^^; Fortunately it seems to be a moot point!
-Farsight does not rejoin the Empire. He showed up to help Shadowsun save the day and then he departs with the implication that he and Shadowsun are now on better terms. The narrative ends with Farsight joining his Enclaves in battle against Hive Fleet Leviathen.
-Ko'sarro suffers no harm. He's pissed off but when Jubal Khan, his Chapter Master, orders him to come back to fight Huron he agrees.
-I can find no evidence of Shrike killing anyone or of any of the Eight dying so thank goodness, to me, that Torchstar is still around.
-For some reason the Adeptus Mechanicus are obsessed with the Stormsurge suits.
-The Obsidian Knight is literally invincible. As in, seriously, it destroys forces of Tau which are wrecking entire Imperial Armies but can't match the Obsidian Knight.
-Story is mostly just one Imperial Guard Commander, from Cadia, against Farsight and Shadowsun. No one else does much.
-Tau use forcefields which shield their planetary emplacements from Orbital Bombardment, forcing ground assaults, because said Planetary Installations pose a big threat to the Imperial Fleet.
-The Tau armada spends the entire book gathering itself, its spread thin, with the implication that when it is fully united again the Expeditionary Fleet can drive off the Imperial Attack Fleet.
-Culexus does kill Aun'va. Aun'va remains Aun'va to the end despite my optimism and does pretty much nothing in the story other than die anti-climatically.
-Darkstrider does kill the Vindicare who killed his Pathfinder Team.
-Longstrike survives, I'm unsure if Pask does because I could find no explicit mention of his death or survival.
-Aun'va's death is simply covered up by the High Command. Shadowsun and all the top Brass know but the Ethereal Council just uses a hologram of him to pretend he's alive for now.
-The Imperial Force fails in its mission. Task Force Retribution is disbanded and the implication is that the Warzone is over since we're told most of the military assets being used are being redistributed to more important Warzones; Chogoris, Hive Fleet Leviathen, Cadian Gate, Armageddon and such. At least half the Imperial Guard die because they are abandoned on Mu'gulath Bay and so when the Imperials bombard it again, killing everything not under a Tau Shield, they die.
-Before they leave though the Adeptus Mechanicus use a missile to ignite the Gas Clouds of the Damocles Gulf making travel much more difficult for the Tau. They can send communications freely but now they need to use new Shields to allow their Ships to move through the Gulf. Said Shields exist but in limited numbers right now.
No mention of Warp/Webway travel at all. Just that the Tau need to shield their ships moving through the Gulf now.
Yay, Darkstrider!
"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad.
I came to the conclusion the Tau are some sort of soft commentary on neocolonialism with a light communist slant. You know, economic slavery, political dependency, client states getting refrigerators and TVs in exchange for brains, etc.
At least the Imperium doesn't lie to you. They just kill you.
Gamgee wrote: I think the Tau will invent FTL drive by the time of the next codex.
A reckoning is coming Imperium. I thought with time that perhaps the Imperium kind would "get with the program". You know maybe realize that teamwork could work or even the value of a life. Instead you set fire to a nebula and essentially throw the sub sector away with that one move.
With that one move the Imperium has shown it has the power and stupidity to eradicate itself and all life. With that one act they are now more evil than the Dark Eldar. I'll offer peace any day of the week with a DE, I'll go to lunch with a Tyranid, and I'll even try teach an Ork Tau Poetry.
There is one thing I will never do however. I will suffer not an Imperial to live. For they are now the greatest threat to all life in the universe. I would rather the Tyranids eat everything than see the Imperium win. The Imperium would see life stripped form the galaxy before they lose, and if they were about to they would do their best to end the ability for life to live.
Even the Tyranids, Dark Eldar, Chaos, and Necrons need life. It's the most minimum thing they can all agree on and fight over who gets the best tasting piece. I've now seen the lengths they'll go to live one day.
If I was an Ethereal I would make an immediate motion to deem the Imperium beyond redemption and cut off all further attempts at diplomacy and integration.
Death to the Imperium.
The Tau are fighting the Imperium on the opposite side of the Galaxy From their real defences and fortifications. There's not much in the area that the Tau live in other than Macragge, Voltoris, and the introduced in Kauyon gilded worlds. All of which the Imperium still hold. In fact, the thought of the Tau dying horribly on Macragge's defences as hundreds of marine chapters teach the Tau their place amuses me.
If by 'Reckoning' you mean 'pecking at planets the Imperium have forgotten or are ambivalent about' than sure! Even Agrellan, the taus biggest victory over the Imperium, was an out of the way hive world, far away from any planet of note.
Edit: all they lit on fire was the nebula, that did not have any worlds mentioned in it. All they did was, essentially slow the Tau down for the Imperium to fortify and flip them the bird. Out of spite, of course, because screw the Xenos.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/28 13:20:43
warboss wrote: Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
AM/IG - 122nd Terrax Guard: 2094/3000pts
Skitarii/Cult Mech: 1380/2000pts
Khorne Daemonkin - Host of the Nervous Knife: 1701/2000pts
Orks - Rampage Axez: 1753/2000pts 
).
