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Tzaangors aren't actually daemons. The only things in the Thousand Sons list heralds can buff are Exalted Sorcerers, Daemon Princes, and Magnus.

 gummyofallbears wrote:
Thoughts on the changeling in a mixed tzeentch and mortals army? -1 to hit is very powerful.

I think this idea is pretty awesome to be honest. I'm not sure how much it is being used but it seems like the way to go. Considering I play Dark Angels as my primary army and the Dark Shroud has become a staple of nearly every list, I cannot see how it wouldn't be good.

How well do 5x Rubric Marines and Inferno Bolters work?

Granted it would be Smite spam but still...

I'm tempted to grab another box of Rubric Marines and get my collection up to 8x Bolters, 8x Flamers, 2x Aspiring Sorcerers and 2x Soul Reapers (maybe try and convert a third Aspiring Sorcerer instead of second Soul Reaper).

15 points for a warpflamer seems very steep to me, especially on a 18 point platform. Have you had success with units full of them? I just can't imagine nearly doubling the cost of the unit being an effective allocation of points.

 heckler wrote:
15 points for a warpflamer seems very steep to me, especially on a 18 point platform. Have you had success with units full of them? I just can't imagine nearly doubling the cost of the unit being an effective allocation of points.

I'm tempted to run a unit of Bolters in the back (Soulreaper too, just because) and 2x5 Flamers in a Rhino.

I was going to run one flamer in each but then I think Space Marines would be doing that better. I like having squads kitted out with one thing only. Sure it may limit their role, but they excel at the role they were kitted out to do - and with everything hurting everything now, it's not as big a deal).

I shall have to get a game in with them once I've built them up and painted them. I am having just a little bit too much time taken away from me via my Orks.

When the Codex is released, maybe they'll get a decrease in points. I guess when the Chaos Codex is released we can look to that as guidance.

Warpflamers are expensive but they do the Lords work.

Units will NOT charge you, if they are in range. However, you will attract lots of attention. Put them in a Rhino or near your main lines so they can move to be wherever you need them to be.

IMHO, Rhino is best, they are protected from stray fire and in one turn they can be in some units face and throwing out huge amounts of firepower.

but with 3" disembark with 5" move and 8" range you are looking at 16" threat on that turn. well, I guess you could advance for another d6" of movement.

as far as the charging thing goes, I've noticed people go 8.5" away from flamer units and hope to roll an 8 to charge in.

 heckler wrote:
but with 3" disembark with 5" move and 8" range you are looking at 16" threat on that turn. well, I guess you could advance for another d6" of movement.

as far as the charging thing goes, I've noticed people go 8.5" away from flamer units and hope to roll an 8 to charge in.

Hmm...we've always played it as Flamers getting overwatch regardless of distance. People have justified it in my meta as running to opposition, rather than teleporting in.

Maybe we've played it wrong.

So with the soul reaper down to 15 is it worth it on SoT?

 Frozocrone wrote:

 heckler wrote:
but with 3" disembark with 5" move and 8" range you are looking at 16" threat on that turn. well, I guess you could advance for another d6" of movement.

as far as the charging thing goes, I've noticed people go 8.5" away from flamer units and hope to roll an 8 to charge in.

Hmm...we've always played it as Flamers getting overwatch regardless of distance. People have justified it in my meta as running to opposition, rather than teleporting in.

Maybe we've played it wrong.

Logically, you are right.

Rulewise, you are wrong.


And you don't need to be 8.5 from the unit, just from the dude with the flamer, so charging from another angle makes it easy to get closer and charge without fear of the warpflame.

I decided that my old TS army is the first to get an upgrade for 8th.
New Codex should come soon but I don't expect any changes regarding models/equipment.

First question is, are Tzaangors and/or Magnus necessary for a tournament army?
Have no models for them and new Magnus is slightly to big for my liking to be carried around

model wise I have some Rhinos/Predators, 1 Dreadnought, 1 Forge/Maulerfiend, 2-3 Damon Princes, ~7 Sorcerer, 30 Rubics, 6 Termis

For a 2k army I thought about:
2x Damon Prince
3x5 Rubics with 1 Flamer
3 Rhinos
1 Hellbrute, Twin Laser and Fist
1 Forgefind (Hades)
1 Exalted Sorcerer on disc
2 Sorcerer on Disc

From what I understand, Magnus is pretty key; And not to just Thousand Sons. Alot of Demon armies are playing him as well with a bunch of demon princes etc. Smite spam sort of stuff. But one thing I have noticed is alot of people don't support him properly and they end up shipping him out into destruction territory fast. Most people have enough fire power and strength to take Magnus down in a turn if he's alone. Just remember that, and I would say it's better to not take Magnus then waste Magnus. In my opinion, if you are going to take Magnus you need to take things that will advance up with him or even faster than him. A helldrake seems particularly efficient. It can race up and with no help tie something potentially dangerous to Magnus up. A couple units of scarab termies could be super helpful, and a demon prince or two. That makes for a mightly flank attack turn one, and now you are possibly able to tie up multiple units while Magnus does his thing. Another key strategy people have been using for the slower lists taking Magnus is to include the Changeling, which is a good idea, to give a -1 to hit bubble around your army. This would go a decent ways to keeping him safe. But if you are going to fly him outside the bubble then it's effectively useless.

Arachnofiend wrote:
So it's confirmed that Thousand Sons is not listed in the CSM codex, which means that we are definitely getting our own codex. What do people want to see for TS-unique stuff? I'd love to see some of the other Tzaangor models imported over from AoS, and getting the Osiron Contemptor Dreadnought would be a dream.

Pull the AS from Rubric Marines and make them thier own support unit.

Psyker Drednaught

TS psykers pick a coven and get an additional spell based on that coven.

Gove some viable options to improve the inferno bolters shooting.

There is no entry for aspiring sorceror in the points so it may be we just pay for him as a tson like the marines pay for their sergeants. Or it could be a mistake

Heavy Rubric Squad of Soulreapers could be kinda fun

(Cheaper stuff too, even if by a point or two, it all adds up)

Somewhat OT folks - but if I wanted to start up a small (1k / 50pl) force, what would you guys buy?

 ncshooter426 wrote:
Somewhat OT folks - but if I wanted to start up a small (1k / 50pl) force, what would you guys buy?

MAGNUS!...

Okay not really.

I would start with Arhiman, demon prince, unit of rubric marines, couple units of zangors, maybe a unit of scarab occult termies.

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

Arachnofiend wrote:
So it's confirmed that Thousand Sons is not listed in the CSM codex, which means that we are definitely getting our own codex. What do people want to see for TS-unique stuff? I'd love to see some of the other Tzaangor models imported over from AoS, and getting the Osiron Contemptor Dreadnought would be a dream.

Pull the AS from Rubric Marines and make them thier own support unit.

Psyker Drednaught

TS psykers pick a coven and get an additional spell based on that coven.

Gove some viable options to improve the inferno bolters shooting.

Yeah, I see at least two options for expanding the Thousand Sons forces for their coming codex (and given the rumors about how many new units the Death Guard are going to get, I think the Sons need some more forces as well, particularly given how much the psychic phase has been dialed back in matched play).

First, port over some more Tzaangor options from Age of Sigmar. Tzaangor shamans on disks of Tzeentch, stuff like that.

Second, mine the Horus Heresy for stuff. As you pointed out, Osirion Dreadnoughts and the return of the Prosperine Cults would be aces. I'd also love to see stuff like (or inspired by) the Khenetai Occult Blade Cabals and the Ammatara Occult Intercession Cabals in 40K. Also, GW should amend Magnus' datasheet so that he can't Peril. He was immune to Peril last edition, and he's almost effectively immune to Peril in Horus Heresy (he can Peril, but it's pretty rare).

 Frozocrone wrote:
Heavy Rubric Squad of Soulreapers could be kinda fun

(Cheaper stuff too, even if by a point or two, it all adds up)

Heavy rubric squad?

Yea, GW does not love us nearly enough for that...

Now that I have had enough time to go through some of the new leaks there are some things I would like to point out about these new Legion Traits.

Im going to focus on 4 legions in perticular. Black Legion, Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion, and Word Bearers.

Black Legion: is extreamly good for Rubrics, the ability to have a mixed unit of WarpFlamers and Infererno bolters advance and still shoot everything is very good not to mention the increased movement. Plus thier artifact helps shore up our weakness with anti-vehicle options.

Iron Warriors: ignore cover forever. Extreamly good. Espically when the enemy is despertly trying to hide in cover because everything you shoot at them has -2 AP. The Relic is awesome since im not seeing a restriction on who you can put it on, so a DP with the exoskeleton will be a nightmare to deal with.

Alpha Legion: -1 to hit outside 12" means our already durable units become even more durable. And the ability to get even 1 unit in what will basically be perfect position is nothing to scoff at. Espically if we have first turn. A single 5 man squad with Warp Flamers can chew up and spit out a very large chunck of an enemy army and be a bullet sponge for 1 turn allowing the rest of your army to get onto position.

Word Bearers: Using Rubrics with pink horrors as fodder. 2 very large squads of Rubrics and 5 or 6 units of pink horrors. The very high leadership of the units coupled with the reroll will ensure you will almost never lose Rubrics to morale. On top of that your ability to bring large squads means you save a few points. The pink horrors are the real terrifying thing here. Since you get models back when ever you roll a 1 on morale checks AND you can roll morale checks even if you have no chance of losing any models AND you can reroll that is you dont get a 1 the first time AND you dont need points to replace those models as far as I know. If you know of a way to get a -1 to leadership rolls you could very relibly (55% of the time) get models back.

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:


Word Bearers: Using Rubrics with pink horrors as fodder. 2 very large squads of Rubrics and 5 or 6 units of pink horrors. The very high leadership of the units coupled with the reroll will ensure you will almost never lose Rubrics to morale. On top of that your ability to bring large squads means you save a few points. The pink horrors are the real terrifying thing here. Since you get models back when ever you roll a 1 on morale checks AND you can roll morale checks even if you have no chance of losing any models AND you can reroll that is you dont get a 1 the first time AND you dont need points to replace those models as far as I know. If you know of a way to get a -1 to leadership rolls you could very relibly (55% of the time) get models back.

One thing worth noting is that in order to have legion traits, every model in the detachment must have the legion keyword. Should you want to run that many daemon units, you would either have to summon them since summoned daemons aren't part of the detachment which could be disasterous if they can focus your psychers quickly or you have to run a second detachment.

Should you go the summoning route I think anything more than three is pushing it. Also, running a second detachment with just daemons assuming you use csm codex means at lest one hq won't get legion benefits

Konor Mission 2 tomorrow. 35 PL.

Ahriman on foot
2x 5 man Rubric squad with Icon, 1 Warpflamer and Warpflame pistol
Hellbrute with Fist/Heavy Flamer and Scourge
Chaos Spawn

Comes to 34 PL. Goal is to Warptime the Helbrute into their expensive piece as fast as possible.

Other version is to reduce it back to 1 squad of rubrics, but up them to 10 men and add a soulreaper and another warpflamer, and have them ride in a rhino. Also up the chaos spawn to 2.

Arachnofiend wrote:
So it's confirmed that Thousand Sons is not listed in the CSM codex, which means that we are definitely getting our own codex. What do people want to see for TS-unique stuff? I'd love to see some of the other Tzaangor models imported over from AoS, and getting the Osiron Contemptor Dreadnought would be a dream.

I want to have more classic TS and less damonic support
So classic Chaos Dread or Contemptor instead a Helbrute, Chosen, Lesser Sorcerer or Aspirants instead of another Tzaangor unit etc

Well, got 3 games in last night for the Konor campaign. Man did I bring the wrong and right list at the same time. First the mission:

Attacker and Defender. If you have the Chaos keyword, you are automatically the defender.

Victory point based:
- 1 VP for killing a unit. A bonus VP if the unit killing the last model in that unit has an innate 2+ or 3+ save. (I read this whole thing wrong and thought it was only for the attacker)
- 1 VP for the defender for each unit that has at least one model left, in their original deployment zone
- Slay the warlord

Strategems:
- Attacker had two, one that gave them +1" to their charge and saves for a turn, cant' remember the second.
- Defender had one. 1 CP, use it when an enemy targets a unit during their shooting phase. That unit gets +1 save, does not stack with cover.

List:
Ahriman
Chaos Spawn
Helbrute w/ Fist + H Flamer and Scourge
2x Rubric squads with Warpflamer pistol, Warpflamer, and Icon


His Deployment



My Deployment and first turn move



I made the list before knowing the mission of course. And having thought that I had to keep my units in their deployment zone, really left me without any shooting in games 1 and 2. First opponent was playing an old school IG army with 4 squads each having a grenade launcher and missile launcher. A command squad. Chimera with scatter laser, heavy bolter (I think), and missile. A Punisher Leman Russ with Lascannon and Plasma Cannon sponsoons. I managed to steal the initiative, warp times the helbrute up to the building in the center to keep him out of sight of that Leman Russ. Ran the Chaos spawn to said building and left him there as a distraction. He proceeded to target the helbrute, which I used 1 of my 3 cp on the +1 armor save strategem. He goes through his entire army and gets nothing for it. The Russ wipes the spawn out.

We made contact!



This continues for 2 more turns with the brute taking every shot and still standing. He tried to move the chimera to shoot my units in the back building, but 5 smites later it was down to a single wound and saw the chimera retreating.

Game 2, or "When's dinner"

Guy brought an Astral Militarum elite army with two of their transports. I didnt stand a chance. He had 3 times the number of bodies, twice the number of vehicles, his guns all had -2 ap, his first vehicle had heavy 20 shots plus auto cannons plus storm bolters, his second had heavy 2 missiles, auto cannons, other things full of guys with melta guns, AND he had a squad deep striking. How this was 35 Power Level I have no clue. But his trucks are only 6 power level. Basically it was over round 1. Helbrute rolled double 1s for saves and lost 4 wounds immediately, Ahriman periled for 3 wounds, he just stayed out of reach and it would have continued for another 3 or 4 turns with me doing nothing but making armor saves. So I scooped at end of turn 2.

Game 3 saw me against Footdar. Blob of Guardians with weapons platform, huge squad of Howling Banshees, Reapers, Rangers, Warlock, and Jain Zar. He goes first, manages to kill a Rubric with the weapons platform. I move up, warp time a squad to get into a center building, and smite the living hell out of that guardian squad as it was closest. He loses about 3/4 of them. He moves up, doesn't have any real shots, moves the guardians back. I repeat my process, move the Helbrute, warp time it, assault the remaining guardians. Smite the Howling Banshees squad and kill half of them.

Helbrute finishes off the guardians, Howling Banshees charge in and do 7 wounds. Helbrute squishes Jain Zar in a turn. Banshees finish off the brute. Rest of the game is me smiting the Eldar back to the stone age.



Next game is in 2 weeks and 10 more power level. Trying to figure out what to change in the list and what to add. Deep Striking Occult Termies? Zaangors? Heldrake?

Not sure if you guys noticed but the new chaos codex lets 5 man rubric squads take the soulreaper cannon.

Errata for Daemons and 1k Sons. Daemons points changes. 1k Sons get to use the new Dark Hereticus discipline


https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/13/daemons-and-thousand-sons-in-codex-chaos-space-marines-aug-13gw-homepage-post-2/

 nintura wrote:
Errata for Daemons and 1k Sons. Daemons points changes. 1k Sons get to use the new Dark Hereticus discipline


https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/13/daemons-and-thousand-sons-in-codex-chaos-space-marines-aug-13gw-homepage-post-2/

Especially wonderful given the universally-available Chaos Familiar stratagem. For 1CP, an Aspiring Sorcerer can actually cast a useful power instead of a weakened Smite! This should dramatically increase the tactical possibilities for a Battle-forged Thousand Sons army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Widied wrote:
Another key strategy people have been using for the slower lists taking Magnus is to include the Changeling, which is a good idea, to give a -1 to hit bubble around your army. This would go a decent ways to keeping him safe. But if you are going to fly him outside the bubble then it's effectively useless.

Magnus with Weaver of Fates and the Changeling's bubble will be awfully, awfully annoying to deal with for any army that can't vomit out tons of Mortal Wounds at range (I say "at range" because if you let him get in close it's your ass).

I'm pretty sure we can't use the stratagems in the CSM book? It's just the Hereticus discipline we have access to.

Arachnofiend wrote:
I'm pretty sure we can't use the stratagems in the CSM book? It's just the Hereticus discipline we have access to.

This may take an FAQ from GW, but I'll be shocked if we can't. I don't have the book in front of me; does it specifically prohibit Thousand Sons and Death Guard from using the universal stratagems?

I've put in the question to the 40K Facebook page. Let's see what happens.

You have to have a chaos space marine detachment (not an auxiliary support detachment) to unlock the stratagems.

Each stratagem is called a chaos space marine stratagem.. I guess it doesn't apply to Tsons, tho it's very vague.