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Given this preview stage will follow that of BB, are we likely to see the actual release before Christmas this year? (If anyone can recall rough timeframes)

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
This is pretty exciting, as I've got Escher and Spyrers ready to play.

I wonder what the rules will be like.


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 Yodhrin wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Look, I get that scale creep is a thing. But it doesn't have to be a thing, and it's a little infuriating that GW keep doing it. It might allow for prettier models... but the end result is pretty models that don't fit in with existing collections, and that's just frustrating.

But this isn't scale creep, is the point. They established a new scale,

people hoping they're in the same scale as the 17 year old metals?

Establishing "a new scale" is the very definition of "scale creep".

Given how stupid it is that ordinary humans have gotten HUGE in the move to plastic, and how it devalues plastic SMs and Orcs and Nids and everything else, going back 20 years for the size of a regular human recruit is the best idea. I've said as much before, and I'll say it again. Plus, the plastic Catachans and Cadians look stupid.

No it isn't. Scale creep is the scale consistently getting bigger (creeping up gradually), which is bad because then everything is out of scale with everything else.

What they seem to have done is stuck to "normal" size humans and "bigger" humans and hopefully it continues like that so all modern releases are consistent with each other.

Let's be honest. The creep is good because the older scale plus heroic sculpts lead to abominations like plastic catachans. Improving that is 100% a good thing, since they look like utter trash. I'd rather have high quality, beautiful models than ones that fit in with 20 year old sculpts.

The Genestealer Cultists kit for example is beautiful. It has so many parts and designs people are using to kitbash all the time. It's also a taller, more human-like shape than the obese weirdos that even the Scions kit has, or the 4-foot tall chunkers of old Space Marines.

I for one, welcome these wonderful necromunda minis.

Come to think of it, I do hope that this edition of the game will also include Plague Zombies, as I've got a load of Poxwalkers now and they've always been something of an Underhive staple.

Sypers and Arbites ( Enforcers) ... Shut up and take my money GW

Vorian wrote:

No it isn't. Scale creep is the scale consistently getting bigger (creeping up gradually), which is bad because then everything is out of scale with everything else.

The miniatures moved to a larger scale without any specific rebranding as a larger scale. You can argue the semantics of just what that should be called in a different thread.

 insaniak wrote:

Vorian wrote:

No it isn't. Scale creep is the scale consistently getting bigger (creeping up gradually), which is bad because then everything is out of scale with everything else.

The miniatures moved to a larger scale without any specific rebranding as a larger scale. You can argue the semantics of just what that should be called in a different thread.

Edit: Never mind. I don't want to be negative or argue with anyone.

 jake wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

Vorian wrote:

No it isn't. Scale creep is the scale consistently getting bigger (creeping up gradually), which is bad because then everything is out of scale with everything else.

The miniatures moved to a larger scale without any specific rebranding as a larger scale. You can argue the semantics of just what that should be called in a different thread.

Or you can just stop complaining about it in this one? Sorry, that sounds hostile. What I mean is that telling someone to take their argument to a different thread when you're the other half of the argument doesn't seem right.

Indeed, it's perfectly on topic. Its not an accurate way of describing it to talk about scale creep - you've already seen people think they are out of scale with Chaos cultists in this thread which they don't appear to be.

By my comparison, the eyes of the old metal Escher firing her lasgun are at the same height as the breasts of the new one with autogun. However, even if they were the same height, I wouldn't be mixing the two ranges anyway. They don't look like they're part of the same faction. I'm looking forward to coming up with a new colour scheme, something different to how I painted the old ones.

Well I am very excited to see this and am curious to see what they do with Orlocks, Delaque and Scavvies

Vorian wrote:


Indeed, it's perfectly on topic. Its not an accurate way of describing it to talk about scale creep - you've already seen people think they are out of scale with Chaos cultists in this thread which they don't appear to be.

To be clear: discussing the fact that the models are different to the previous range is on topic. Arguing over precisely what term to use to describe that is not.


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 Shuma-Gorath wrote:
Well I am very excited to see this and am curious to see what they do with Orlocks, Delaque and Scavvies

Going by the models shown so far, I wouldn't expect them to be substantially different to the originals, just bigger and modernised a bit.

I have to admit to a certain curiosity as to what updated Spyrers will look like, as well.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
By my comparison, the eyes of the old metal Escher firing her lasgun are at the same height as the breasts of the new one with autogun. However, even if they were the same height, I wouldn't be mixing the two ranges anyway. They don't look like they're part of the same faction. I'm looking forward to coming up with a new colour scheme, something different to how I painted the old ones.

That isn't the case though when you account for the massive platform shoes. Looks to me like the biggest difference is the legs which are 1-2 mm longer.

Warhams-77 wrote:
Brother Aiwass on B&C correcting the height of boots difference to better compare the actual scale of the bodies



They arent much different

1. This news has been out for less than 2 days, and I still feel late to the party.

2 . This is awesome news! Necromunda was my second table-top wargame, and the first I bought the intro box for. I still have all my old books (the source book fell apart, so I have it carefully stored in a binder now). As well as the scenery, the base miniature and my Spyer gang. Hell, years after I stopped playing Necormunda, I realised that all the terrain I was making for 40K was basically just Necromunda terrain.

3. Those minis look fantastic! Busier than (most of) the original ones, and they are reflective of general GW scale creep, but still, amazing sculpts & I look forward to getting my hands on them.

4. The rules sound interesting. I had expected that Shadow War was basically a prototype/test run for Necromunda rules (given how similar they were to the old rules), but to hear they are going with something much different. That's interesting, and I look forward to seeing what they come up with.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I'm hoping that barring Goliath and Escher, we get mixed gender Gangs,

5. That would be totally awesome, but If they don't there is always third party for female ganger miniatures.

Just saying.

The picture they posted appears to be a female Ratskin, so here's hoping ...

Also, it's probably worth bringing that up on the Warhammer Community site, in case it' can influence the designers.

I still own my old redeptionist gang, and TBH I'm 100% ok with the models being made in scale to modren plastic human sculpts like the Skitarii, GSC, ect over the old metal range. Necromunda has always been a game with a huge focus of converstions. Haveing the models in plastic and being compatible in scale with modern plastic ranges is much better.

I also can see these models finding their way into Imperial Gaurd, Inquisition, GSC, and Chaos armies. So having them scaled to make any conversions with said ranges easier is only good for hobbyists.

I get that for classic collectors have concerns about mixing the new and the old stuff. But think having the new stuff inline with the current scale is better for the game in the long term.

Now I was in the "No need we have YakTribe" camp, but 8th-based rules could be very interesting... I wonder how they'll manage events that were based off the Initiative stat before? Or whether they'll add I back in?


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 AndrewGPaul wrote:
The picture they posted appears to be a female Ratskin, so here's hoping ...

Also, it's probably worth bringing that up on the Warhammer Community site, in case it' can influence the designers.

If it is they've found a nifty way of de-American Indian-ing the Ratskins. Not a faux-pas they could make with a new release in this day and age... similarly the Redemption. I loved them, but you can't release Klan-lookalike toys today (well maybe Trump's America would lap them up but that's not a good thing).

I wonder if it ain't just a fancy Escher though.

Has the Black Goliath guy got a ball gag!?

The idea of "new style" Arbitres makes me all warm and fuzzy inside. I'll throw money so fast at my FLGS for a pre-order, it's not even funny.

Very happy to see this game coming back, fond memories of the original. New plastics look cool and if they provide rules for Genestealer Cults at some point too that would be awesome.

Steve

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Now I was in the "No need we have YakTribe" camp, but 8th-based rules could be very interesting... I wonder how they'll manage events that were based off the Initiative stat before? Or whether they'll add I back in?


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 AndrewGPaul wrote:
The picture they posted appears to be a female Ratskin, so here's hoping ...

Also, it's probably worth bringing that up on the Warhammer Community site, in case it' can influence the designers.

If it is they've found a nifty way of de-American Indian-ing the Ratskins. Not a faux-pas they could make with a new release in this day and age... similarly the Redemption. I loved them, but you can't release Klan-lookalike toys today (well maybe Trump's America would lap them up but that's not a good thing).

I wonder if it ain't just a fancy Escher though.

I love my Redemptionists, but me takeing them to a gaming store once caused a Gentlemen profess his support of the Klan to me. Needless to say I was very crossed with him, and he was black sheep'ed from the community soon after. That was like 8 years ago....

In today's day and age, they need to ditch the cone hoods. Witch at that point, makes me wounder if they will just roll them into Cawdor (the other hooded faction)

Except the cone hoods are based off of the capirote, which considering who the redemption are makes a lot of sense.



Just because people are ignorant of its original source of inspiration, doesn't mean a design element should be done away with.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Except the cone hoods are based off of the capirote, which considering who the redemption are makes a lot of sense.

Spoiler:

Just because people are ignorant of its original source of inspiration, doesn't mean a design element should be done away with.

Oh don't worry. I know that full well, and I think it's clever and fitting.

The problem is that it seems to the Laymen that is not what they see. Thus why I could see them makeing a point to move away from the cone hoods to the normal hoods and masks.

 Lockark wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Except the cone hoods are based off of the capirote, which considering who the redemption are makes a lot of sense.

Spoiler:

Just because people are ignorant of its original source of inspiration, doesn't mean a design element should be done away with.

Oh don't worry. I know that full well, and I think it's clever and fitting.

The problem is that it seems to the Laymen that is not what they see.

So? If the layman can't be bothered to do research, that's his problem.
By that logic, Black Templars should lose their logo, and Krieg and Steel Legion should be discontinued because a layman might confuse their logo and design elements with a certain 1930's authoritarian regime, even though the inspiration for said logo and designs are much older than that.

If the new Escher are much larger than the older ones my older ones will just be juves, problem for me SOLVED.

Speaking of Redemptionists...

 Pendix wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I'm hoping that barring Goliath and Escher, we get mixed gender Gangs,

5. That would be totally awesome, but If they don't there is always third party for female ganger miniatures.

Just saying.

Oh you with your shameless business plug

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Except the cone hoods are based off of the capirote, which considering who the redemption are makes a lot of sense.

Just because people are ignorant of its original source of inspiration, doesn't mean a design element should be done away with.

Actually, thats an excellent reason to do away with them. Almost anyone who looks at them will be reminded of the KKK, whether thats the intention or not. Thats unfortunate, but it can't be avoided. GW can choose to fight a losing battle trying to explain the origin of their design choice for a minor product while likely drawing a lot of criticism and negative publicity and possibly even unintentionally encouraging and emboldening more white supremacists within the hobby, or they can just change the design. You know, like they already did years ago with inquisitor's Redemptionist.

I love those old models, but its time for them to go I think.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Lockark wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Except the cone hoods are based off of the capirote, which considering who the redemption are makes a lot of sense.

Spoiler:

Just because people are ignorant of its original source of inspiration, doesn't mean a design element should be done away with.

Oh don't worry. I know that full well, and I think it's clever and fitting.

The problem is that it seems to the Laymen that is not what they see.

So? If the layman can't be bothered to do research, that's his problem.
By that logic, Black Templars should lose their logo, and Krieg and Steel Legion should be discontinued because a layman might confuse their logo and design elements with a certain 1930's authoritarian regime, even though the inspiration for said logo and designs are much older than that.

No offence, but your from France. Your country doesn't have a history of men in cone hoods hanging other men from trees as recently at the 50's and 60's.

In North America a man walking down the street wearing a Cone hood, is the same reaction as a man walking down the street waving a Swastika Flag. Cone Hoods are ingrained in our culture as a hate symbol and telling us that they are not is like a Asian telling a German or Jew that the swastika isn't a hate symbol.

None of the factions you mentioned are running around is swastikas on them, and if they did I'm sure they wouldn't fly in Europe. This is the same reason cone hoods don't work here in NA.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Except the cone hoods are based off of the capirote, which considering who the redemption are makes a lot of sense.

<snipped image>

Just because people are ignorant of its original source of inspiration, doesn't mean a design element should be done away with.

Which is lovely but NO, I'm afraid you're wrong. That post reminded me of people who try and defend the swastika as a pre-Nazi symbol and say it should be able to be used (I am NOT saying you do that to be clear, it's a parallel). Ah no, it's a symbol of hate and racism now in most places since, ooh, the late 1930s.

Same with pointy hoods and a fanatical religious order that wants to exterminate aliens. They just won't fly. The 90s satire is the 2010s too close to the knuckle. If GeeDubs honestly releases a pointy-hooded Redemption I'll be staggered. Maaaaany other fanatical/ecclesiastical garments they could use, other than what will appear to many as simply a racist's hood, albeit red.


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 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
Speaking of Redemptionists...

Now THAT mask and interpretation is much better. Mask and a brazier hat is just insane and silly and grimdark. And not a red KKK hood, crucially.

Looks cool to me, I'm quite interested in the Goliath gang as I have always preferred the big brutish characters to the small fast ones, but the Escher gals look OK as well. Good way to get some women models for people without eviscerating the established background as well!

Maybe my mind is going but didn't there used to be Skaven in Necromunda as well? Perhaps I just remember somebody's conversions!