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Posted By Clayman on 07/09/2006 6:17 AM

and can i say 'Someone set up us the bomb'?

 

 Good one.. haven't seen that one in a while

Please don't go cold on this one Jamsessionein!!! Lots of motivation comming your way from me! It is so good, you can't stop now...

I'll bet the platform for the Grot-bomb / Earthshaker on the back will take up ample space to fill your gap. Why not start on the platform and machinery for that?

Orkified shoulder-guardsare also a good idea. Protect the moving parts from incoming fire.

Also don't get too crazy comparing your scale to the art you've based it on. What will be important in the end will be how awesome and orky it looks (so far, so good!), not how close to a single concept art sketch it becomes.

I'd try pulling the magnets off that connect the head to the body and just mocking it up moving the head back a bit. To me the head does not look too big, just too far forward.

I would like to also send my motivational psalms.  If you have to take a break to regain your inspiration, then so be it.  You have done a great job and it has been great to see all the creativeness that you have applied here.  Thank you for doing such a great job!!!! 

Well, here's what's going on.

I tried out making a shoulderpad sort of setup for it where both arm joints are a bit more protected, but the problem I'm encountering is that the arms are in completely opposing positions - meaning that the shoulder guards end up turned to match the arms (for example, so that the 'klaw' arm can point backwards for the running pose, the shoulder guard has to be angled way forward) , and look completely off because they are in opposing positions. Instead of bulking it up (which it would do nicely if the arms hung at the sides in a neutral position) it ends up making the entire thing look lopsided.

I've considered a sort of gunner's platform across the back of the gargant's shoulders as well, but there are issues with that, too - namely, the angle I would set it at. It could be parallel to the top of the head, but it'd end up leaning forward pretty hard and would look a bit silly.. or it could be parallel to the ground, which wouldn't make sense as when the gargant isn't leaning so far forward the platform'd be tipped back.

Everyone seems to have their own ideas for 'fixing' the head - I've had suggestions to move it up, down, backwards, forwards...

I've not mentioned this in any sort of previous post here because I thought it'd be a nice surprise, but the content manager from White Dwarf and I have had a few interactions over the past few weeks wherein I was working to arrange getting the model into the publication for the Orktober issue. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like I'd be able to make that deadline - next Monday I'd have to go down to Baltimore with a completed, painted model and diorama base. It just doesn't look like it's going to happen as I'm both burned out and stuck on the upper half of this project. I'm thinking I'm going to set this aside on a shelf for a while until I feel the desire to come back to it and try again, when I will most likely remake the head to some degree and work on the back and engine. As it stands, even if I just stuck random stuff on the back (which would look like garbage) I'd only have 5 days to paint both the model and the base, and I don't see anything good coming of that. The past few days have been me attempting a rush job, and I think it's starting to show. I'm at the junction now where I'd rather have a proper model, painted over however many days it requires, with proper modelling to finish it off, as opposed to.. well, what I have now.

The nice thing is that taking a break'll give me time to order a forgeworld grot bomb and save myself the headache, too.

In any event, there you have it. This doesn't mean I'm done - it just means I'm taking a step back and redoing some things that have been bothering me about it without the time constraints I've been trying to work with for the past week or so.

jamsessionein, thanks for reminding us why we love orks.

To bad about the WD thing. Meh. Oh well. Mabey another day.

Take your break and when you get the urge to pick it back up, let us know. ;~)

For your shoulder and neck issue- how about a couple of scratch-built glyph plates with appropriate orky stuff on them. Position them such that they act as armor from the back/side of the head and block-up some of the empty space.

Also do you have any ideas for the grot who will ride your bomb (if you even have one)? Would be funny if you had him swinging a cowboy hat in the air like Slim Pickins in Dr Strangelove. It might not be so Orky but would be hella funny for those who got it...

Sounds like a good plan, you did a lot of work in a short time, I always find it best to take a break if I'm working on something that hard, I'd imagine when you're fresh you'll figure it out in no time.

I've worked out a bitz trade for a grot bomb at the moment, which should help a great deal - I'll probably modify it with a saddle and chain reins so that a grot can go Dr. Strangelove style on the top. I like the idea of that a lot, as it'll look like the grot's actually riding the gargant when the bomb is mounted on the top, which is just a fun thought. I think when it comes time to redo the head, I'm going to try and pin it down a bit more accurately on the concept sketch.

In the mean time, I've been bitz ordering stuff for my warboss on warbike, which should help a lot.. and I've had a really interesting idea for a Big Mek model that I think I want to give a try, but I'm going to work up some concept imagery before I commit to anything.

Don't worry, though. The gargant is definitely getting finished - I'm ordering some stuff for it as we speak, and when the grot bomb gets here I'll pick back up on this and finish it off with a new head and a reworked upper body.

In the mean time, I'll be making some orks for the base of this thing. Here's what I'm wondering: You guys may remember my normal orks (as I run a Kult of Speed, they're Trukk Boyz) - they wear goggles, streetsigns, tires, and chains as extra armor, typically carry shotguns, etc.. The orks that I decorate on the base as following the gargant up, I see going one of two ways. I can either armor the ork up to reflect that little ork in the gargant's concept drawing (With the beakie shoulder pads and a bit more of a 2nd-edition look to him) or I can go with my normal Ork boy design and make them a bit junkyard-esque - goggles, chains, the likes. The stormboy's a bit of an exception as I think he'd have the goggles and such anyway, though.

Right now I'm sort've leaning towards my junkyard orks just because I think they'd match the gargant's walking-scrapheap appearance better, but for the original art's sake I thought I'd consider the design there as well.

I gotta' say, I didn't wanna say so earlier, because I thought I'd be raining on everyone's parade, but I second your plan to re-do the head. I really like the project but I kinda' felt the head didn't quite live up to the rest of the body. I think it might be cool if when you redesign it, you would do the lower jaw kinda like two sheets of metal cut to make jaws with a space in the middle, kinda like their mandibles. It kinda' looks like it's that way in the picture, AND it makes sense as to let the flamer have more space to fire. Also, I think it'd look pretty cool if the teeth were actually like 3-D, like harvested teeth from a squiggoth or something. Big fan of the project, thanks!

and once you finish your Stompa Gargant, we insist you start on a MegaGargant

I think you're doing damn well so far.

I think the proportions seem fine according to the original concept sketch.

The head looks out of proportion whenever the gun arm is not in the pic. that really balances it out.

Here's something I mocked up to show one possible head position using the head you have already created. Sorry if I'm slightly off on scale here, these pics were the closest I found. I've shown the head back further into the body and a tiny bit lower. The jaw has been extended a long way out, similar to the original concept. I think one problem you might be having could be caused by the fact that there's an extra bit of armour on the concept between the shoulders and the head, which might be throwing the positioning off,  I've added that in. To me, the ears look good but they will have to lie fairly flush to the head rather than sticking out, to avoid the "jughead" look.

I can see that this might mean taking another look at your wiring as putting the head where I've shown it here might not allow room. One possibility for the electronics could be housing them under the grotbomb and just using a little jumper wire to connect them to the head?

ETA: obviously this is just a little 2D jiggery pokery and it is easier to muck about with it here than in real life. If you need a break, take it - the results may well please you more when you come back to it with a fresh head.

That little extra extension of the torso armor up to around the neck area was part of what I thought would help the body look a bit larger in proportion to the head, but I believe that you have the head set lower down than it is in person there. I don't really know if I can shift it down all that much more without impeding the grotpit area, but I will take a look at that. Also, that little shoulder armor extension was being problematic when I was trying to make it - in a 2d sketch it looks fine, but when you actually try adding an additional plate there the shoulder area where the chains are wrapped around and the magnets that the head uses to connect impede where the plate needs to go.

Also.. I'm not sure, but it does look like the head is a bit smaller in that image, if I'm not mistaken. Still, that is very useful, and before I remake the head I'll toy with modifying the current one into place (It'll end up being just a useless thing I have laying around if I rebuild the head anyway, so I may as well experiment with it). The majority of the wiring inside the head is out of the way, but I was a bit silly and stuck the switch in a stupid spot to work around - it interferes with any back-mounted weapon I want to put on there, and it prevents me from moving the head down as it's in the way.. but unfortunately, it's stuck in tight. Even if I remake the head just a touch smaller and with a relocated switch I think it'd work better.

Oh I don't know, you could use the head as a bit of terrain for the battle field, it would be quite cool I would think, you could go for a planet of the apes statue of liberty type effect.

Also I would go with your speedfreaks/junk yard orks on the base, I mean the gargant is part of your army, it only makes sense that it would be your army on the base.

If you end up making a new head, you could put the current head that you have on the end of a stick and use it as a WAAAGH! banner.  I think it would be cool to see a group of grots charging into battle with a giant Gargant head on a stick to rally da boyz.  What could get them more charged up than following a big Gargant head into battle!!!!  Of course, you'd have to make the banna wavas look like they're stuggling to keep the thing in the air.  I think it'd be awesome. 

I am very impressed with this and eagerly await the finished model. Some feedback for you.

1. I followed the link to the_waargh forum, there you were encouraged to replace the guard officers pointing hand with a laspistol. This would be a bad idea because:
a. A pointed hand nicely indicated the hopelessness of the guardsmen. Even the officer has let his fear overcome him. A laspistol is too defiant.
b. Dioramas incidate things that the rules might not. Your gargant is not vulnerable to small arms fire, but it looks open topped (frunted?), so a short ranged aimed shot may well kill the grot at the wheel and save the day. You want the attention on the gargant, not an imperial hero in the making.

2. You think the head is wrong. I agree, but its not the back thats the problem. The trouble is that the gargant has a high forehead, it looks too thinky. Give the gargant a more neanderthal slope at the front and it will look fine.

3. Adding shoulder plates is a good idea, as they will better define the shape - but they dont need to be big.

4. I think your gargant will be better off more or less as it is, it has enough gunz and klose kombat weapons as it is. Save the grotbomb and looted earthshaker as optional add ons. Think about haveing a detachable shoulder/backplate with two hardpoints on it so you can have both the weapon options. Its also an excuse to add an extra structure point and orky field. This way your gargant can be cheap and nasty and part of an army list, or a (small) army of itself - which is what you orignally wanted, yes.

5. I like the grot controlled gargant idea, as this is a small gargant. But it only really works if the gargant is alone or has a bigga more killy gagrant nearby. If you use this in your games you will have a legal H.Q. and that will be a problem. I cannot see a warboss or nobz on foot playing hangers on to some uppity grots! So I suggest you make an ork kaptin figure for the grotpit. As you dont want him there most of the time - especially as a diorama - adds two pins to each foot and suitable holes to the grotpit for him to stand in or be removed as needed.
He need not be impressivly armed (he controls a gargant) just give him a kaptins hat, hip mounted slugga and a loudhaila. So long as he is suitably big as an ork he can claim to be da boss and your warboss on foot, in a battlewagon or whatever can more readily follow him. Otherwise it will just look wrong.

 i think the orcs would probably listen to the grots, since they are in a giant death machine...

or make this model the HQ of an all-grot army

Looking at the two next to one another in tabs helped me figure out some suggestions.

The sketch and your head are actually almost identical in proportion from the side. Therein lies the issue. You think it is too big because it is too wide from the front. The 2-D sketch can't really show you the depth you need to get the correct feel for a proportioned head. It hints at it a little, but you have to see it the way an artist does.

The bottom of the jaw starts further in than your jaw does. They both have about the same extension, but the sketch will be smaller than yours and more in proportion because it does not actually try to cover that spot in front that you have for the grots. My only suggestions are to either drop the crew (which I don't believe many people are in favor of) and make the lower jaw smaller or to give up on the crew being protected by the jaw. This can be so taken care of with Orky technology. Power fields protect crew all the time. Putting something like a plastic film to protect the crew might work... Not sure how to handle that.

To make it more in proportion you have to make the head about 1/2 to 1 inch narrower. This is not going to be easy. The The eyes are more narrow and that increases the menace of the sketch. The problem you will meet is making the battery stuff work with that.

I look at the belly of the stompa and see armor plates coming forward. Those actually push the lower frame of the model forward and give it more gravity and depth. Maybe adding stuff there would help.

The only other thing is that mounting for the grot bomb. If you attach it to the head (to the left and right of the toggle along the housing for the circuitry) and have a small platform rest ON the engine on the back so that it looks like part of it, you will get a much bigger looking back and it might just bring it right back to where it needs to be.


Some small suggestions from a person that believes you have made some art and I can understand losing the muse.

I joined this forum 'cos of this thread...my son (an Orky-type) has been going nuts reading this article...amazing work!

With regards to the head....I disagree...I think the voiceover from DoW says it all:  "We'll make it Orky!!!"

Head too big?  Naw....it's all good...it's s'posed to be big 'n intimdating. 

Holy christ that thing is rock the freak out AWESOME! Jaw droppingly so. Good god, I hope you're able to grind your way through your burn out and get back to it, that is quite the impressive scratch build. It's tough to not let construction frustrations get the best of you and I truly wish you the best of luck pushing through them. Fantastic work and thanks for sharing it with us! Love it!

THis is outright the most impressive thread I have ever seen!
That is all I can utter at this moment. Simply Perfect.

I hope you are a God at painting as well. If not you really should consider commissioning the painting. This artifact must not be tainted by even a single brush stroke that has not been carefully executed with the skill worthy of (for lack of a better superlative) your conversion skills.

You can trust he's good at painting, those orcs he painted were pretty super. Hopefully one day I too can be decent at painting

Oh yeah, he's good at painting his ork vehicles.

Check out his first modeling contribution (to my knowledge anyway) here on Dakka.


An Ork Battlewagon with lots of grots doing stuff. See a pattern?

Ein, I wanted to wait till the WD deadline was gone and past, because I didn't want you to have any more hair splitting on my acount, and I think is this is a great conversion project.

The only input I can give is based on that latest picture with the extra shoulder plate, etc. You have already probably considdered this, but I will toss it to you anyway. The gob in that picture is much bigger and it looks good! I don' know that you have to change the whole head... Maybe you just need a bigger gob.

Ok, that's my two cents.

Wow, this model just keeps getting better and better. Congrats on the amazing build, i hope to see it finished and painted, yuo are a very talented modeler, keep up the great work!

dude thats amazing!!!!

i bet it wasnt easy.

How is it coming these days? Any advancements?

Some. For the sake of my own sanity, I've decided I'm not really going to be putting the model online for the time being, as everyone just has differing opinions on the build of certain features and it ends up getting very.. conflicting. I'll put some shots up when the model's fully finished being painted, but until then, you'll all have to cope.