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 Daedalus81 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
I'd assume so, but then again one would think gw would manage to propperly type in and copy paste stuff correctly.

I mean...this is GW. Part of the fun is finding mistakes.

I feel like they have rules writers and then data entry clerks. We're all criticising the rules writes when it's probably the data entry people messing it up

 fraser1191 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
I'd assume so, but then again one would think gw would manage to propperly type in and copy paste stuff correctly.

I mean...this is GW. Part of the fun is finding mistakes.

I feel like they have rules writers and then data entry clerks. We're all criticising the rules writes when it's probably the data entry people messing it up

We all know its Jeff the intern who is supposed to be doing the proof reading.

Jeff sits there with his sandwich and looks at the pile of work... "I'm sure its all fine.. I don't actualy need to proof read it.. Those guys wouldint make mistakes..." carries son eating sandwich and playing clash of clans.

 Argive wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
I'd assume so, but then again one would think gw would manage to propperly type in and copy paste stuff correctly.

I mean...this is GW. Part of the fun is finding mistakes.

I feel like they have rules writers and then data entry clerks. We're all criticising the rules writes when it's probably the data entry people messing it up

We all know its Jeff the intern who is supposed to be doing the proof reading.

Jeff sits there with his sandwich and looks at the pile of work... "I'm sure its all fine.. I don't actualy need to proof read it.. Those guys wouldint make mistakes..." carries son eating sandwich and playing clash of clans.

You assume Jeff was competent enough so say that out loud. People could have heard him and told him to do his work.

You sure about that? When some of the codex are clear copy paste action, with no real thought put in to how the armies are suppose to work within edition core rule set and other armies rules?
We are talking here about people who thought that making a salamander army invunerable to shoting is a good idea.

 Ordana wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Ordana wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:
If BA become a boogieman it might not make any sense to nerf Intercessors, Flyers, Repulsor Executioner, Eliminators, TFC, Aggressors and Assault Centurions which I think are currently the strongest SM units, but probably a side-note in a BA army.

TFC is probably the most common unit, but only partially because of its pts, it'd probably still be taken if it was 20 more pts at least as once to use the Stratagems it has.

That's not how balancing works, If the current SM's lists are dumpstering everyone (and from the looks of it they mostly are) then they need to be brought back in line, regardless of whether or not BA uses different units to dominate aswell or even more (those units obv need to brought in line aswell).

If you just nerf what the #1 army brings without realising that the #2 army is also unhealthy for everything below it your not going to get a somewhat balanced field.

On the other hand, the #2 army might not be as oppressive once #1 is removed because other lists might be able to handle #2, but not #1.

That is not the case here. We know Marines are oppressive, to pretty much everyone.

No, my point was that there might be something that would make #2 not be an issue but which is currently being demolished by #1 and thus isn't seen at all because #1 is such a defining part of the metagame.

Karol wrote:

We are talking here about people who thought that making a salamander army invunerable to shoting is a good idea.

Well, see, they didn't think that. They came up with a rule that people interpreted differently and needed to be fixed to be clear to everyone.

TFC buff wasnt needed. They had their time 6th edition was it?

Anyone taking them now are using proxies, recasts, or third party conversions.

I was under the impression GW only wants to buff new units and new kits to discourage just that...

And yes, I say so only because I'm salty about selling off 3 of my own TFCs earlier in the year.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
TFC buff wasnt needed. They had their time 6th edition was it?

Anyone taking them now are using proxies, recasts, or third party conversions.

I was under the impression GW only wants to buff new units and new kits to discourage just that...

And yes, I say so only because I'm salty about selling off 3 of my own TFCs earlier in the year.

You sold your TFCs, because you believed GW only ever buffs new units?

Don't believe everything you read on the internet.

Not Online!!! wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Wait Ogryns were nerfed?

Yep,basic ones,not the bullgrins,basic ones

Yeah screw paying money for this product. Again. They really don't want my money for their rules it seems.

Buy sm, 3 models for 50+CHF.
What you don't think that is good value?

Too bad./J

Honestly i feel that that race to the bottom is becoming clear, margins on sm must be higher therefore force sales of sm and screw xenos or fw for that matter, also screw csm because how dare you demand an actual working baseline, play soup you pleb.......

Just stupid


Automatically Appended Next Post:

LoftyS wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Wait Ogryns were nerfed?

Makes sense, it's what Guard players have been taking lately to counter-charge the SM meta, we can't have armies having answers to marines now can we?


Edit:

Tau

Ghostkeel unchanged

And back on the shelf Tau go again. Wallet not complaining, still haven't bought a single one and so it will remain.

Tau are xenos, therefore inferior, therefore you must be bad.....
/J

But seriously,they couldn't even be bothered to fix the issues,just drop points on everything instead.

Heck my daemonengine list now just lost enough points for another 1.5 daemonengines......

Yeah don't even get me started on the unit style + kits of the Eliminators and Suppressors. We all know how I feel at this point.

 Vaktathi wrote:
I for one certainly cannot see what sort of criteria GW is making changes by.

Looking at the IG changes, they made russ tanks inexplicably cheaper, made Mortars expensive enough that they're never going to be seen again, decided the Wyvern of all things needed a nerf, made Astropaths cheaper again, and none of the units that really need help and never see the table got any help at all, while Tank Commanders remain criminally undercosted.

I think they're operating by Ouiji board. It's certainly not gameplay feedback.

Base Russ tanks are cheaper because they've have never seen use. Mortars are expensive because they were super prevalent but I think they over did it a little. Wyvern was an odd one but perhaps the new strats people were taking made them too good (but not really). Astropaths were already cheap at 26pts. They are almost auto include elite tax but then again guard powers are sub par. Will need to see what PA gives them. Tank commanders now make more sense given the drop of the base leman russ makes the gap to get BS3 and 1 order fairly reasonable.

The oddest thing with the IG changes was the army wide nerf to anti infantry weapons. Mortars/Wyvers/Punishers are all decent in competitive meta but BS4 was the biggest limiting factor. Now in a marina meta these weapons are far worse.

Guard matching up with Tau/CSM cultist hordes/Orcs all got worse with these changes.

If the Wyvern was priced in reference to mortars it seems natural that they'd hit it if they were going to hit mortars?

 AnomanderRake wrote:
If the Wyvern was priced in reference to mortars it seems natural that they'd hit it if they were going to hit mortars?

Yup most of the guard nerfs were optimal units from 6 months ago pre marines when the likes of Orks and GSC were more prevalent.

With marines, GSC disappeared altogether but the Ork hordes are still around and potentially cultists making a comeback. And Tau drone spam will be harder to deal with.

 Smirrors wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
If the Wyvern was priced in reference to mortars it seems natural that they'd hit it if they were going to hit mortars?

Yup most of the guard nerfs were optimal units from 6 months ago pre marines when the likes of Orks and GSC were more prevalent.

With marines, GSC disappeared altogether but the Ork hordes are still around and potentially cultists making a comeback. And Tau drone spam will be harder to deal with.

Ork Hordes are still around? Don't you mean Gretchin Spam with Big Gunz and SSAG's?

With PA3 you will see hormagaunt hordes making a comeback.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
TFC buff wasnt needed. They had their time 6th edition was it?

Anyone taking them now are using proxies, recasts, or third party conversions.

I was under the impression GW only wants to buff new units and new kits to discourage just that...

And yes, I say so only because I'm salty about selling off 3 of my own TFCs earlier in the year.

You sold your TFCs, because you believed GW only ever buffs new units?

Don't believe everything you read on the internet.

Yup. But more because it was a failcast resin kit.

Do Marines have any other failcast left other than Servitors and some characters?

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
I'd assume so, but then again one would think gw would manage to propperly type in and copy paste stuff correctly.

I mean...this is GW. Part of the fun is finding mistakes.

I guess so, but we as a community got promised improvements at the start of 8th, the only improved thing we got are the prices, and that also only out of gw's perspective.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Karol wrote:

We are talking here about people who thought that making a salamander army invunerable to shoting is a good idea.

Well, see, they didn't think that. They came up with a rule that people interpreted differently and needed to be fixed to be clear to everyone.

You know, this is going to sound strange coming from me. But his is a kids type of excuse. I did something, but I thought it would be different. From what I know GW does not have a design team consisting of people my age or younger. They can't say, after 30 or 40 years working on it on a game system, that they thought that the rule would work different. GW doesn't know that their characters have the infantry trait and that they have put an untargeting rule in place for characters? Don't they read or know they own rules? In sports the complain that you thought the rules work different only works, if the judges are your buds or you have the best sponsors and are a local.

Plus they do nothing when people point out mistakes to them. People have been telling them that there is something wrong with how they wrote GK, for what 2+ as many years other editions were since last time GK were good? But then there is small stuff took, they clearly pointed the razorback with psycannon as if it had a heavy one, a year passed, and maybe they fixed it now, but maybe they didn't. They just don't seem to care to fix all the stuff they sold, they just fix stuff that they want to sell right now. But who knows, I haven't see the GK pages, maybe they are full of rule changes and other stuff.

I honestly don't think GW really cares about balance in any way and these points tweaks are more done to stir up hype and act like they care when some of the choices are so strange as to make no real sense and some units that have sucked for awhile still suck after the points drops or aren't touched at all.

I'd be surprised but I really think this is all a smoke and mirrors thing to appease the player base with claims of care and effort given.

AngryAngel80 wrote:
I honestly don't think GW really cares about balance in any way and these points tweaks are more done to stir up hype and act like they care when some of the choices are so strange as to make no real sense and some units that have sucked for awhile still suck after the points drops or aren't touched at all.

I'd be surprised but I really think this is all a smoke and mirrors thing to appease the player base with claims of care and effort given.

E.g., in view of GK, GW obviously tries to pacify the GK player base.
But GK is still not playable at the competitive level.
Squeezing in another unit or two at the 2000 pt level is not enough.
GK needs a total overhaul. However, GW is usually only rectifying at the surface.

 wuestenfux wrote:

AngryAngel80 wrote:
I honestly don't think GW really cares about balance in any way and these points tweaks are more done to stir up hype and act like they care when some of the choices are so strange as to make no real sense and some units that have sucked for awhile still suck after the points drops or aren't touched at all.

I'd be surprised but I really think this is all a smoke and mirrors thing to appease the player base with claims of care and effort given.

E.g., in view of GK, GW obviously tries to pacify the GK player base.
But GK is still not playable at the competitive level.
Squeezing in another unit or two at the 2000 pt level is not enough.
GK needs a total overhaul. However, GW is usually only rectifying at the surface.

Atleast GK got some point drops, that's more then FW index lists can say

Not Online!!! wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

AngryAngel80 wrote:
I honestly don't think GW really cares about balance in any way and these points tweaks are more done to stir up hype and act like they care when some of the choices are so strange as to make no real sense and some units that have sucked for awhile still suck after the points drops or aren't touched at all.

I'd be surprised but I really think this is all a smoke and mirrors thing to appease the player base with claims of care and effort given.

E.g., in view of GK, GW obviously tries to pacify the GK player base.
But GK is still not playable at the competitive level.
Squeezing in another unit or two at the 2000 pt level is not enough.
GK needs a total overhaul. However, GW is usually only rectifying at the surface.

Atleast GK got some point drops, that's more then FW index lists can say

Indeed, I was surprised to see the pt drops as they made already some adaptions recently.
Now its possible for a 2000 pt infantry GK army to field 200 pts more when compared with lists before the update.

Honestly, the drops won't change a thing.
Most of the standard fodder of most armies, got cut in price, as do other models.
I honestly doubt that this would improve anything for GK players.

Infact it exemplifies the issues imo.
But he, i guess we are back at square one.

AngryAngel80 wrote:
I honestly don't think GW really cares about balance in any way and these points tweaks are more done to stir up hype and act like they care when some of the choices are so strange as to make no real sense and some units that have sucked for awhile still suck after the points drops or aren't touched at all.

I'd be surprised but I really think this is all a smoke and mirrors thing to appease the player base with claims of care and effort given.

There are still a few more PA books to come, and i think some point updates that now make very little will make sense once those books are released.

 p5freak wrote:

AngryAngel80 wrote:
I honestly don't think GW really cares about balance in any way and these points tweaks are more done to stir up hype and act like they care when some of the choices are so strange as to make no real sense and some units that have sucked for awhile still suck after the points drops or aren't touched at all.

I'd be surprised but I really think this is all a smoke and mirrors thing to appease the player base with claims of care and effort given.

There are still a few more PA books to come, and i think some point updates that now make very little will make sense once those books are released.

Will they?
I doubt that, there is no reason to expect DKoK getting something, as do Corsairs or R&H.
And you can only do so much with Stratagems, WL traits. As exemplified by PA2.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Honestly, the drops won't change a thing.
Most of the standard fodder of most armies, got cut in price, as do other models.
I honestly doubt that this would improve anything for GK players.

Infact it exemplifies the issues imo.
But he, i guess we are back at square one.

Necrons and orks mostly got drops on previously weak units at least so if GK's got cuts on their line models they are catching up those two at least.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

AngryAngel80 wrote:
I honestly don't think GW really cares about balance in any way and these points tweaks are more done to stir up hype and act like they care when some of the choices are so strange as to make no real sense and some units that have sucked for awhile still suck after the points drops or aren't touched at all.

I'd be surprised but I really think this is all a smoke and mirrors thing to appease the player base with claims of care and effort given.

There are still a few more PA books to come, and i think some point updates that now make very little will make sense once those books are released.

Will they?
I doubt that, there is no reason to expect DKoK getting something, as do Corsairs or R&H.
And you can only do so much with Stratagems, WL traits. As exemplified by PA2.

Those are FW, arent they ? They make their own rules, which have nothing to do with PA.

 p5freak wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

AngryAngel80 wrote:
I honestly don't think GW really cares about balance in any way and these points tweaks are more done to stir up hype and act like they care when some of the choices are so strange as to make no real sense and some units that have sucked for awhile still suck after the points drops or aren't touched at all.

I'd be surprised but I really think this is all a smoke and mirrors thing to appease the player base with claims of care and effort given.

There are still a few more PA books to come, and i think some point updates that now make very little will make sense once those books are released.

Will they?
I doubt that, there is no reason to expect DKoK getting something, as do Corsairs or R&H.
And you can only do so much with Stratagems, WL traits. As exemplified by PA2.

Those are FW, arent they ? They make their own rules, which have nothing to do with PA.

NOPE.
FW rules FOR 40K are since the start of 8th whole sale done by the GW rules team.....

Don't bother. Regardless of how many times that is repeated it won't be believed/remembered. Save your time.

Not Online!!! wrote:

NOPE.
FW rules FOR 40K are since the start of 8th whole sale done by the GW rules team.....

Irrelevant. FW armies have nothing to do with PA.

 p5freak wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

NOPE.
FW rules FOR 40K are since the start of 8th whole sale done by the GW rules team.....

Irrelevant. FW armies have nothing to do with PA.

Double irrelevant, because it's GW:
Also better FW index armies get something then more marines or snowflake marines. Except GK but that has understandable reasons.
Further in PA there were allready mentioned formations of R&H infact probably the main carrier of the IW meatgrinder, but he why expect some standards.