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So I play a Hybrid and sometimes Mech list. My buddy plays Tyranids with a HEAVY Reserves strategy. He Deepstrikes Doom, a squad of Zoanthropes, and Warriors. All of these in Spores then outflanks with Tervigon and Genestealers.

I've been decimated if not completely wiped out by third turn every game we've played.

I've tried counter deepstriking, Casteling up, speading out and everything in between. I've run Hammerheads and Broadsides. Some games just Railheads, some games just Broadsides, and some games i mix it up.

I've tried Crisis suits with TL Plas, Plas & Fusion blasters w/Targeting Arrays. I've built anti mob squads for the 3 Squads of Gaunts he takes and to handle the ones spawned from the ever present Tervigon. (Flamers & Frag Projectors)

So basicly I'm begging for help. I've tried everything and I would hate to just say "I'm not playing you anymore..." because I really enjoy warhammer but Doom single handedly kicks my ass every single game.
( the game where I castled he wiped out 1/3 of a 1500pts force in 1 game turn.) I'm just sick of losing every game to a 90pt throw away model.

Help?

Have you tried putting everything in reserve when going second?

If the doom drops onto an empty board on turn 2, then he's not going to hurt anything. Then your units that come in on the bottom of turn 2 can get the first shot on him (or just roll onto the board outside his range) and negate the threat.

No sir... and until I just checked the rule book I was unaware I had that option. I'll give it a try.

Any other ideas out there?

I have an idea. Allow all your troops to be eaten and then barfed into a digestion pool. Then you wont have to worry about fighting against Tyranids, because now, you are one!
I don't know If I should say anything since I am a Tyranid player too. But in the spirit of fair game, and I love it when food puts up a good fight, I will give a little advice.
Doom of Malan'Tai can not affect embarked units. So if you wait for it to land, then run your transports away from it far enough to where it can not chase after you, you can then disembark with some long ranged units and blast away.
The down side with that though, now all your troops are in a transport when the Zoanthropes deep-strike in.
If you want to be sneaky, don't tell him what troops are in what transport. Maybe even have an empty one or two as decoys. It may seem like I'm a jerk with poor sportsmanship, but if it was a for real battle, you wouldn't tell your enemy anything at all. I already convinced my friends (aka my enemies) to try the don't ask don't tell style of game play I just mentioned and they liked it. It adds more strategy to the game that way. If they, or I, don't ask about a particular unit then it is our bad when we get slaughtered by it because we did not do proper recon. This is true for any war zone, real life or not.

Unfortunately in lieu of an official FAQ by GW we tend to use the rulings available.

Yakface (you may know of him) has been credited in the Official GW FAQs and he also from my understanding has a hand in the INAT. So we figure till GW comes out with something we'll use the AdeptiCon INAT FAQ.

http://www.adepticon.org/wpfiles/inat/INATFAQv3.3.pdf

In that it says Doom can use his soul leech against models in transports... hence my chagrin.

Firewarriors w/Shas'ui = Ld 8.

Avg. number rolled on 3d6 = 11

so 3 wounds to pretty much anything in my army on his turn and then 3 more on mine for free.

You don't have the possibility to shoot it with a few S8 or higher weapons in the turn it podded in? One failed invulnerable save and it's dead.

Keep Everything in Reserves. Try keeping small firewarrior squads in Devilfishes. Broadsides with Adv. Stab walk onto the field and open fire on something big. Some Fusion armed Chrisis Suits or possibly some Piranhas with fusion blasters to take out the doom. Focus on objectives and mobility, and stay away from his scary cc units.

Get some kroot. Bubble wrap your castle with a conga line of kroot to stop the pod. You will lose the kroot, but then you can ID doom with a railgun or fusion blaster.

Don't even rely on ID. Small-arms fire is the way to go, strip him down of wounds by forcing lots of 3+ saves. Burst cannons come to mind....

tetrisphreak wrote:Don't even rely on ID. Small-arms fire is the way to go, strip him down of wounds by forcing lots of 3+ saves. Burst cannons come to mind....

I'm guessing you have no clue how the doom of malan'tai works. For every wound of damage it causes, it gains a wound. As long as there are 2! squads within range of its soul-suck, it should have 10 wounds by the time your shooting phase rolls around. BS 3 Str 5 weapons have a 1/9 chance of damaging the Doom, which requires 90 shots to actually kill it on average. A BS 3 Str 8 Weapon will on average have a 5/36 chance of instakilling the doom. That's a little more than 7 shots required to reliably kill it, less at BS 4. Still pretty bad, but the thing is, if the doom of Malan'tai survives with even 1 wound, it will quite probably be back at 6-7 wounds at the end of turn, and might also have charged a squad to keep it safe from shooting.

Against regular zoanthropes small arms fire works. Agaisnt the doom you need to ID it. I take 2 squads of helios suits to take care of MCs or Terminators. They tend to do a number on the doom since they can jump in range then jump out of range and never be within that 6" range of wound sucking. Spreading out is the best option and give him a juicy target. Kroot work just fine for this. They ahve low leadership but you can take them in huge squads. It will be questionable if they have to take a morale test or not from having taken 25% wounds. They're leadership sucks but even if you take 8 wounds on a full squad - you'll be just taking a leadership test.

Kroot Leadership = 7
Average Roll = 11

Kroot squad min size = 10 = 3 Wounds for morale check
Kroot Max Size = 20 = 5 Wounds for morale check
Kroot Max Size with Hounds = 32 = 8 wounds for morale check.

Kepp you models towards the edge of the table and you have a chance the pod will scatter off the table and be destroyed. Or create a hole in the middle of a Kroot bubble so the pod fits but nothing else. The Doom cannot deploy and is destroyed.

note you should never take the 2nd blast of doom's love aura because you can move out of the way and be out of 6" during your shooting phase, there's no reason to still be within 6" when all your guns shoot 12 and are assault or rapid fire.

@Xenoscry-Try NinjaTau with everything else mechanized and make sure to bring an Ionhead or two for MC hunting and a railhead for the horde.

Deploy your vehicles so that the DoM cant get within 6" of your command squad. Aside from your HQ Everything else starting on table is vehicle except for DoW scenario. In DoW Bubble Wrap your commander with Kroot in a manner that wont alow the DoM within 6".

If you want to bring a hybrid army then join the commander to the Broadsides and bubble wrap as descibed above. Run one of each type Hammerhead.

Here are Four threads for you to peruse for ideas:

1)http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/237732.page

2)http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/291137.page

3)http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/299460.page

4)http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/290159.page


Hope these help. Any questions feel free to ask.

Later


Edited for added content

I've not lost yet with Tau vs nids, I usually try to drop Broadside fire into him asap. However last game he dropped doom completly on the otherside of the board, and we playing that new Forcefield Secenario. I dropped 5 markerlights on him and had 2 squads of FW and two warfish in range. but both units had other good targets SO I used a seeker missle which dropped him, wasted 4 ML, but if need be 24 FW at bs 5 would havew made him save 26 wounds on average.

Actually as a side note this game he put all the MC on the otherside of the table from the Broadsides, and left them with nothing but 80 gaunts and a Prime. I never fired their rail guns the entire game.

Redemption wrote:You don't have the possibility to shoot it with a few S8 or higher weapons in the turn it podded in? One failed invulnerable save and it's dead.

Ya, I've tried this and in some games I've killed him with fusion blasters and in other games with Seeker Missiles. But that doesn't stop him from wiping out a Pathfinder squad.



Oh, and thanks @ focusedfire for the links.

If I can pull a win out I'll let you guys know how I did it.

Thanks All

Grundz wrote:note you should never take the 2nd blast of doom's love aura because you can move out of the way and be out of 6" during your shooting phase, there's no reason to still be within 6" when all your guns shoot 12 and are assault or rapid fire.

Firewarriors move 6", as does the doom. The Pod rules mean he can plonk it down right next to your guys. Better hope your deployment has no holes large enough to fit a pod into . . .

While ninja tau is not really all that effective, I do think that a careful use of the Positional Relay and so care with inital set up can win the day.

To avoid having troops on the field when doom attacks, simply reserve them along with a single crisis team. On turn two, use the PosRel to bring in your crisis team. Then on turn 3 assuming Doom is down, the choose not to use the PosRel and have your troops roll on normally. If he isn't down just bring on one troop far away from him.

Also have you been taking cover saves against Doom for your guys in the transports. Because the INAT also says that units in transports get cover saves. Also if a unit is in area terrain they get cover saves. Kroot in a forest get 3+ cover saves 2+ if they go to ground and you only have to have half a unit in cover to get the cover bonus. Big kroot squads can stretch out pretty far.

Also, doom ignores armor saves, but not invul saves so crisis teams with shield drones or generators should be fine.

Lastly, if you really want to put this issue to bed use shadowsun. Her leadership bubble will prevent doom from getting any freebies.

I think that once you begin to use those rules that you (and your opponent) will come to realize that doom is a waste of an elite slot that the tyranids desperately need for anti tank.

Pro tip (use tanks)

Hit doom and his zoanthropes with a railgun! if you pass his invulner he's dead. worst thing is he freaking costs 90 points, its almost a waste of a railgun shot, BUT think of the tau you will save

@Razorlead-NinjaTau no longer only means holding every unit until the end of the game. The name has become more generic, often referencing an army build desisigned to exploit the use and non-use of a commander equipped with a Posi-relay.

In other words, NinjaTau is now often described as having a Posi relay commander and the ability to deploy in an unpredicable manner. The dogmatic holding everything in reserve is now rarely used and is to be considered for only a few certain situations that depend upon a build comparison.
These days the Ninja builds usually a good portion of the army in a manner similar to what you have just described.

i like the concept of the positional relay......i just wish theyd hurry and make a new codex for us....i hate 2 say it, but we need help....

Irdiumstern wrote:

Grundz wrote:note you should never take the 2nd blast of doom's love aura because you can move out of the way and be out of 6" during your shooting phase, there's no reason to still be within 6" when all your guns shoot 12 and are assault or rapid fire.

Firewarriors move 6", as does the doom. The Pod rules mean he can plonk it down right next to your guys. Better hope your deployment has no holes large enough to fit a pod into . . .

right next to your guys, you move 6" away, now you are out of the 6" aura during /your/ shooting phase, and you shoot it dead.