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L: Beastlord - Heavy Armour, Stonecrusher Mace, Ramhorn Helm, Gnarled Hide, Shield = 249 (General)
H: Wargor – Battle Standard Bearer, Pelt of the Shadowgave, Shield, Great Weapon = 161
H: Bray Shaman - Level 2, AHW, Stone of Spite, Dispel Scroll = 162

C: 23 Gors - Shields, Full Command = 209 (6X4) (Bray Shaman)
C: 24 Gors – Shields, Musician, Standard = 207 (6X4)
C: 24 Gors – Shields, Musician, Standard = 207 (6X4)
C: 12 Gors - Additional Hand Weapon, Musician = 101 (6x2) *Ambushing*
C: 12 Gors - Additional Hand Weapon, Musician = 101 (6x2) *Ambushing*
C: 10 Ungor Raiders - Musician = 63 (5x2)
C: 10 Ungor Raiders - Musician = 63 (5x2)
C: 10 Ungor Raiders - Musician = 63 (5x2) *Might Ambush*

S: 22 Bestigors – Full Command, Warbanner = 319 (Beastlord & BSB) (6x4)
S: 5 Harpies - Scouts = 70

R: Jabberslythe = 275

2250 Points

With Supportive Attacks, I've gone with Shields for my big blocks of Gors, as generally, they're going to do better save wise, I think that a 6++ save is better than 6 more attacks.

I've gone for bigger blocks than usual because of 2 ranks fighting, and for a bit more protection from shooting (I mean honestly, I am dreading the moment when my ambushes don't work out, and I'm missing a whole Gor block a turn from cannons and bolt throwers. I'm not so worried about ST's because of s3(9) and having a 6++ against that.

I dropped the Cygor, because really, I think that having a fourth of your army in two monsters with no armor is just dumb, and IMO, the cygor isn't as effective in 8th.

I don't have any chariots, but that's just because of lack of models, and lack of extra cash, and generally, I like the big blocks.

I'm got a LOT of shooting protection, from the Ambushers, to the 20 Ungor Raiders screening all my blocks for hard cover to all of them (-2 to BS, and that's -3 against the bestigor's), to the harpies, to the jabberslythe.

Magic Protection is dependent on the dice roll, but I think I'll be alright most of the time.

I don't know what Lore I'll take yet, I'll have to review them more.

The general strategy is to march up, Unbows leading the way, pumping arrows, as in 8th, they can march AND shoot. My Ambushing (Un)Gors will harry the enemy, as well as my Jabberslythe and harpies.

Appreciate any critique.

I love how gor-heavy this list is! Talk about going over to "all blocks". It is throwing your eggs all in one basket, but although beasts might not have improved as much as other armies, it seems like a sound strategy. I personally would keep the Cygor- did you see how nasty some of those big spells were, and relatively easy to cast? I'm not sure what I would drop, though- perhaps just add him for your 2500 point list.

I also think 2250 might become a less common point value to play, with no real reason to- before, it gave you breathing room to add in a lord after passing 2000 points, but since you can take lords at any time now, 2000 / 2500 point game levels make more sense to me. We'll see if common sense (imho, of course) catches on with tournies and the like, though!

Heh, well, if the actual point value goes up to 2500, I'd drop 25 points worth of gak (probably 2 ungor raiders from the non-ambushing units, and one from the ambushing one) and then add a Cygor.

Though, I would like to reacquaint you with the Cygor's rule that actually affects wizards.

If a Cygor is within 24" of wizards, they have to take a leadership test, if they fail, any failed casts count as a miscast.

So, really, most wizards have relatively good LD (7 or above) and THEN they have to actually fail to cast one of those really easy to cast spells

So, its 275 points for a stonethrower that barely even bothers wizards.

That's just in my opinion, but I think 225 would have been a better point value for it.

Yeah, I really like the big blocks as well, and IMO, I hope it goes up to 2500 as the norm, that would be awesome to see more big blocks of the field, lines of crossbows and handguns, bristling with cannons.

The Beastmen, will still remain a very low "average" on the rankings of the armies, however.

On the subject of Beastmen though- at least that whole question of "Why the hell do forest dwellers have only a single unit capable of moving through forests?" is answered. I agree with you on the Cygor. I love the idea, but practically speaking, it probably won't come into play much.

RZ

Hmm, yes, I sold my beastmen army book after deciding not to start them. Somehow the Cygor rule seemed... better . Still an awesome unit for coolness factor, though! And now you don't have to guess range...? I know, I'm reaching here

The thing is RiTides, with the Beastmen book, taking so many things with the coolness factor when they're already a average-to-low power army, is dangerous.

With things like the Daemons book and Dark Elves book, they can go with an all-fluffy list and still stay competitive, not the same with Beastmen.

I bet I want to take the Cygor more than you, but the new rules just did not like the idea of the Cygor. Yes, he's a better stonethrower now, but 275 for a stonethrower isn't acceptable.

His aura is gakky, even more so in this edition, he can't combat regular units if his life depended on it with WS2.

Honestly, if the new norm is 2550, or 2500, I'd rather take a Ghorgon, they got such huge boosts in 8th.

I'm guessing I'll have to change this again when the FAQ's and Erratas come out.

L: Beastlord - Heavy Armour, Stonecrusher Mace, Ramhorn Helm, Gnarled Hide, Shield, Potion of Foolhardiness = 254 (General)
H: Wargor – Battle Standard Bearer, Heavy Armour, Charmed Shield, Berserker Sword, Ruby Ring of Ruin = 164
H: Bray Shaman (Lore of the Beasts) - Level 2, AHW, Stone of Spite, Dispel Scroll = 162

C: 23 Gors - Shields, Full Command = 209 (6X4) (Bray Shaman)
C: 24 Gors – Shields, Musician, Standard = 207 (6X4)
C: 24 Gors – Shields, Musician, Standard = 207 (6X4)
C: 12 Gors - Additional Hand Weapon, Musician = 101 (6x2) *Ambushing*
C: 12 Gors - Additional Hand Weapon, Musician = 101 (6x2) *Ambushing*
C: 10 Ungor Raiders - Musician = 63 (5x2)
C: 9 Ungor Raiders - Musician = 57 (5x2)
C: 9 Ungor Raiders - Musician = 57 (5x2) *Might Ambush*

S: 22 Bestigors – Full Command, Warbanner = 319 (Beastlord & BSB) (6x4)
S: 5 Harpies - Scouts = 70

R: Jabberslythe = 275

2246 Points

Modified for 8th, mostly characters, took out ungor raiders for points.

On the Beastlord, I'd replace the potion of foolhardiness with Ironcurse Icon. +6 might not look like much, but it's only 5 points and it'll probably save you a few Bestigors when people start trying to drop stonethrowers on the unit.

I thought about the same thing, and might sneakily change it depending on my opponent.

I just wanted to comment on what a great job GW did on all the magic items in the book. My favorite has to be the Ruby Ring of Ruin, since once my Shaman turns into a Black Hydra, I'd like to have a little bit of ranged punch.

L: Beastlord - Heavy Armour, Stonecrusher Mace, Ramhorn Helm, Gnarled Hide, Shield, Potion of Foolhardiness = 254 (General)
H: Wargor – Battle Standard Bearer, Heavy Armour, Shield, Berserker Sword, Ruby Ring of Ruin = 161
H: Bray Shaman (Lore of the Beasts) - Level 2, AHW, Dispel Scroll = 137
H: Bray Shaman (Lore of the Beasts) - Level 2, AHW, Stone of Spite = 137

C: 23 Gors - Shields, Full Command = 209 (6X4) (Bray Shaman)
C: 23 Gors – Shields, Full Command = 209 (6X4) (Bray Shaman
C: 24 Gors – Shields, Musician, Standard = 207 (6X4)
C: 12 Gors - Additional Hand Weapon, Musician = 101 (6x2) *Ambushing*
C: 9 Ungor Raiders - Musician = 57 (5x2)
C: 9 Ungor Raiders - Musician = 57 (5x2)
C: 9 Ungor Raiders - Musician = 57 (5x2) *Ambushing*

S: 22 Bestigors – Full Command, Warbanner = 319 (Beastlord & BSB) (6x4)
S: 5 Harpies - Scouts = 70

R: Ghorgon = 275

2250 Points

What do y'all think of this list? I was reading over magic and was really liking the magic in Lore of the Beasts, possibly making two of my gor blocks S4, T5, which is a bit ridiculous. I'm slightly leaning towards this list, though I did drop a unit of ambushing gors, unfortunately, charmed shield, and an ungor.

I have to say I do enjoy the list very much, Karon. I like the new magic, but I'm and old dog with no new tricks so I like the magic offered in the Armybook. Such a shame we can't use our magic move to charge headlong into combat. Nevertheless, I'm still happy to see the Stone of Spite making the cut. Let us know how it fares.

Remember that the cygor does get to reroll hits against magic users and magic banners.... always nice

Couple of things from my (limited) experience:

Is a Ghorgon too much like a minotaur for your anti-mino army? I have had the most luck with that for a rare choice over the others.

I agree. Jabber > Cygor. I took one and, with the new magic rules, failed casts are getting more rare.

For lore, I like shadow. Magic Missiles, flight spell, etc. On top of that, whenever a shadow spell is cast two char. may swap. Great for getting your caster away from harm and your BL into the thick. It's all personal preference, however.

For a gor heavy list, have you thought about running 10 wide gors? I do that, give them AHW, and all of a sudden I have 3 ranks at 2 A each. More when I put my doombull in there but that's beside the point. I run 10x5. Fairly cheap for the effectiveness and with lots of skirmishers shouldn't impede your movement too badly.

OVerall looks great though. Super fun looking list.

Thanks mates! Appreciate it very much.

Sorry I couldn't respond, I was suspended for a rude comment on my part.

I actually am using the Ghorgon, haha. My army isn't really anti-minotaur, I was just using the name as a play on words of the halloween song "monster mash" and the trend of all-minotaur lists.

The Ghorgon is the ultimate choice for our rares, no doubt. The cygor just can't compete when it has a equal point cost as the Ghorgon.

You know, I've been thinking of shadow for one of my shamans as well. I'm going to think about it some more, as well as look at death a little bit.

I believe your misreading the Horde rule. It says the third rank can also make supporting attacks, so only 1A for every rank besides the first one.

I have thought of it, and still am, but with Gors being overcosted and all, I think it would be a waste to a certain extent. I'll playtest it in the future and see how it goes.

Thank you!

L: Beastlord - Heavy Armour, Stonecrusher Mace, Ramhorn Helm, Gnarled Hide, Shield = 249 (General)
H: Wargor – Battle Standard Bearer, Heavy Armour, Dawnstone, Enchanted Shield, Dragonhelm, Great Weapon = 168
H: Bray Shaman (Lore of the Beasts) - Level 2, AHW, Dispel Scroll = 137
H: Bray Shaman (Lore of the Beasts) - Level 2, AHW, Stone of Spite = 137

C: 23 Gors - Shields, Full Command = 209 (6X4) (Bray Shaman)
C: 23 Gors – Shields, Full Command = 209 (6X4) (Bray Shaman
C: 24 Gors – Shields, Musician, Standard = 207 (6X4)
C: 12 Gors - Additional Hand Weapon, Musician = 101 (6x2) *Ambushing*
C: 9 Ungor Raiders - Musician = 57 (5x2)
C: 9 Ungor Raiders - Musician = 57 (5x2)
C: 8 Ungor Raiders - Musician = 51 (5x2) *Ambushing*

S: 22 Bestigors – Full Command, Warbanner = 319 (Beastlord & BSB) (6x4)
S: 5 Harpies - Scouts = 70

R: Ghorgon = 275

2246 Points

Edited it since I realized the Berserker Sword was useless. He's a lot more 'ard now.

REVISING ERROR WITH CHARACTERS

L: Beastlord - Heavy Armour, Stonecrusher Mace, Ramhorn Helm, Enchanted Shield, Ironcurse Icon = 251 (General)
H: Wargor – Battle Standard Bearer, Heavy Armour, Dawnstone, Dragonhelm, Gnarled Hide, Shield = 164
H: Bray Shaman (Lore of the Beasts) - Level 2, AHW, Dispel Scroll = 137
H: Bray Shaman (Lore of the Beasts) - Level 2, AHW, Stone of Spite = 137

C: 23 Gors - Shields, Full Command = 209 (6X4) (Bray Shaman)
C: 23 Gors – Shields, Full Command = 209 (6X4) (Bray Shaman
C: 24 Gors – Shields, Musician, Standard = 207 (6X4)
C: 12 Gors - Additional Hand Weapon, Musician = 101 (6x2) *Ambushing*
C: 9 Ungor Raiders - Musician = 57 (5x2)
C: 9 Ungor Raiders - Musician = 57 (5x2)
C: 9 Ungor Raiders = 54 (5x2) *Ambushing*

S: 22 Bestigors – Full Command, Warbanner = 319 (Beastlord & BSB) (6x4)
S: 5 Harpies - Scouts = 70

R: Ghorgon = 275

2249 Points

Fixed error with characters.

I play Beasties too and I see alot of people going the Horde set up in 8th edition (especially with Ungor spears) but these set ups are soo flimsy with cheap weak troops. Sure ya get 40 odd attacks, but with S3 that does crap all. I would always go with the stubborn unit setup. 2-3 rounds of combat with 15 attacks is much more effective imho.

So with your Gors I would but 35 or so in a unit. 5 across 7 deep. With Beastlord ld and banner rerolls, they'll be sticking at that combat for a long time. 2 units of that with Minotaurs/chariots on each flank will be very effective.

anyway just mo

What? So change my entire list?

Appreciate your idea, however.

Definitely keep updating as your try your lists out, I'm following them intently. I just picked up a ton of Beastmen (well waiting for them to arrive) so I'm trying to take in a bunch of ideas.

I think Zarkin may have a point about running with 2x 35 Gor blocks. I think you'd save 15pts from the musician/standard so you can add a couple Gors to your ambush unit. They'll hold up pretty nicely and you can run them on the Bestigor's flanks, with the Ungors screening everyone. Between the ambushers and harpies you should be able to neutralize enemy shooting enough to get into hand to hand and win with numbers.

All theory of course, but seems relatively sound. I feel like Beasts should be pretty decent in this edition, and the models look great so I'm excited.

I love the models too ^.^

You think that two blocks of 36 would be better than 3 blocks of 24? I'm not sure on that.

Im sure. With no armor saves (unless you go shields) Gors (and pretty much everything else for BEastmen) are really squishy. If you lose 6 Gors in your 1st round of combat and some how, miraculously, win combat (pretty hard with S3), then your opponent is most likely gonna be stubborn (prolly with high ld and re-rolls) because most people are taking big blocks of spears in this new edition. In my opinion its more important to have a strong front line that is short compared to a long front line that will easily break.

As long as you protect your flanks with powerful units (6 Minos anyone?) and tie up gunlines with ambushers/harpies or screen with warhounds, then your Beastmen have a fighting chance.

If you do this consider putting your Lord and BSB into each of these units.

Keep in mind, gentlemen, he's got not one but two Bray Shamans to go either Lore of the Wild for pushing his units down the field, or Lore of Beasts. The signature spell is far too good to pass up as S4/T5 Gors suddenly got ALOT better. I know you can't always count on it being there on a unit you need it on, but, that's where strategy comes in. After all, if your opponent is sweating a +1/+1 then when those dispel dice go bye-bye and suddenly a Dragon or a Ghorgon/Jabberslythe suddenly shows up then they're gonna be wishing they hadn't. On either of the gors I do wish I could see the Steel Claws, but then again maybe you're on to something, Karon, with the mace. Something else maybe to consider depending on your meta is the Chalice. Not as good as the skaven stormbanner, but better than nothing. My testing gives two thumbs way way up. I'll be trying a list similar to yours, Karon, so I'll let you know how some of my games go.

Eh, I'm not that fond of the chalice, I think I have more than enough shooting protection (but I may be underestimating the dreaded Empire/Dwarf Gunline 'o Death)

I'm still wondering the 3 blocks of 24 opposed to 2 blocks of 36. My frontline would be 3 blocks, my bestigors, and then two side blocks of 36 Gors.

I'm slightly starting to lean into the two blocks of 36 (just because huge blocks are awesome.

Full support for the Gor-centricness of this list. I also like the use of bestigors as 20ish model blocks can be devastating. Though I might consider getting a pair of tuskgor chariots to give you more flexibility when funds allow it. Also have fun with the stone of spite. Its particularly fun when it causes high elf characters to blow up. Also I would personally give the gnarled hide to the standard bearer. But thats more of a personal taste thing.

Also 30+ blocks of gors with lore of beasts spells cast will make your enemy cry!

L: Beastlord - Heavy Armour, Stonecrusher Mace, Ramhorn Helm, Enchanted Shield, Ironcurse Icon = 251 (General)
H: Wargor – Battle Standard Bearer, Heavy Armour, Dawnstone, Dragonhelm, Gnarled Hide, Shield = 164
H: Bray Shaman (Lore of the Beasts) - Level 2, AHW, Dispel Scroll = 137
H: Bray Shaman (Lore of the Beasts) - Level 2, AHW, Stone of Spite = 137

C: 36 Gors - Shields, Full Command = 313 (6X6) (Bray Shaman)
C: 36 Gors – Shields, Full Command = 313 (6X6) (Bray Shaman
C: 12 Gors - Additional Hand Weapon, Musician = 101 (6x2) *Ambushing*
C: 9 Ungor Raiders - Musician = 57 (5x2)
C: 9 Ungor Raiders - Musician = 57 (5x2)
C: 9 Ungor Raiders = 54 (5x2) *Ambushing*

S: 22 Bestigors – Full Command, Warbanner = 319 (Beastlord & BSB) (6x4)
S: 5 Harpies - Scouts = 70

R: Ghorgon = 275

2248 Points

That looks like a really fun list! Like one gigantic sledgehammer hehe. Best of luck and if you feel like it update on how your battles turn out.

Yeah, now ya talkin! A nice balanced list with a strong front line and a few ambushers, thats a true Beastmen list...

If only it had Minotaurs..

Good job neway!

Just one thing Karon, you can't take the ramhorn helm and enchanted shield together.

L: Beastlord - Heavy Armour, Shield, Stonecrusher Axe, Ramhorn Helm, Gnarled Hide, Ironcurse Icon = 254 (General)
H: Wargor – Battle Standard Bearer, Heavy Armour, Enchanted Shield, Great Weapon, Dawnstone = 158
H: Bray Shaman (Lore of the Beasts) - Level 2, AHW, Dispel Scroll = 137
H: Bray Shaman (Lore of the Beasts) - Level 2, AHW, Stone of Spite = 137

C: 35 Gors - Shields, Full Command = 305 (6X6) (Bray Shaman)
C: 35 Gors – Shields, Full Command = 305 (6X6) (Bray Shaman
C: 10 Gors - Additional Hand Weapon, Musician = 85 (5x2) *Ambushing*
C: 10 Gors - Additional Hand Weapon, Musician = 85 (5x2) *Ambushing*
C: 10 Ungor Raiders - Musician = 63 (5x2) *Ambushing*
C: 9 Ungor Raiders - Musician = 57 (5x2) *Ambushing*

S: 22 Bestigors – Full Command, Warbanner = 319 (Beastlord & BSB) (6x4)
S: 5 Harpies - Scouts = 70

R: Ghorgon = 275
OR
R: Jabberslythe = 275

2250 Points

Alright, major changes are that I re-arranged the ungors and ambushing gors.

I felt that two units of 10 Gors would be better than one unit of 12, since I had the extra points, I threw that in there.

Instead of 3 units of 7-8, I went with 2 units of 10, for strictly screening purposes for that hard cover to my Gors. A little bit of missile fire before my battle line clashes into the opponent isn't bad either.

Characters got switched up, now I KNOW its legal. I went through the rulebook with the use of shields with things that require two hands like great weapons, and found my answer that they STILL DO provide that +1 to missile fire, so its all good.

My Beastlord is a little light on the protection side of things, but I think that he will be alright as long as he's going to be in the Bestigor unit for all, or the large majority of, the battle.

The BSB is damn 'ard, and the Dragonhelm is pretty nice for that +1 to AS, and the flaming protection for only 10 points.

I've decided that Lore of the Beasts will be simply impertative for those Gor blocks now. With only two units, I can just throw all my dice into two castings of Wyssans Wildform if I really need to. S4, T5 Gors is just stupid tough.

I wish I had the points available for duo Tuskgor Chariots for the flanks on my units, but I can't find a way to let them in besides maybe dropping some Ungors and a shaman, both the ambushing Gor units, the Ghorgon maybe, or dropping down both blocks of Gors to 30 strong each. They're going to have to wait for 2500 points.

Speaking of 2500 points, It's looking like that's what everyones going to be going to, so I'm guessing tournaments will follow. I'll probably write up a 2500 list (built off of this one) that could buff both units of ambushing Gors back up to 12, and two Tuskgor Chariots, along with maybe buffing the Bestigors up to 30 strong if possible.

Currently the next round of Indy GTs are 2400 points, at least the ones I'm playing in are. IMO it's a nice level, with a super easy 600 points as the 25% block. The internet on the other hand seems obsessed with 2500, go fig.

Nice final list K, the extra skirmishing gors are a good move.

- Salvage