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They are showing the Khador, Cygnar, Protectorate and Cryx battleboxes on the PP site now. (The Cryx box was shown recently this week on the News and Rumor's thread already).

Menoth
http://privateerpress.com/warmachine/gallery/the-protectorate-of-menoth/warcasters/the-protectorate-of-menoth-battlegroup

Khador
http://privateerpress.com/warmachine/gallery/khador/warcasters/khador-battlegroup

Cygnar
http://privateerpress.com/warmachine/gallery/cygnar/warcasters/cygnar-plastic-battlegroup

Cryx
http://privateerpress.com/warmachine/gallery/cryx/warcasters/cryx-battlegroup

what about Magnus & Gorten?

will they be getting new plastic kits as well?

So, the company that once loudly and lovingly decried plastic as unworthy is now even making warcasters in plastic? This makes me very happy. I may actually pick up Warmachine in a serious way now, especially if they start making troops box sets in plastic. (Not that it matters, I have a crapload of plastic soldiers who would make excellent proxies for Khador or Cygnar infantry with a little repainting.)

I keep hearing that standard plastic cement/glue doesn't 'melt' PP Plastics and that superglue is still needed.

Also, where's the Retribution plastic set?

Am I the only one who thinks $50 for a platic starter is way over priced? I thought the idea of plastic figures was to make them cheaper...?

Mick

Absolutionis wrote:I keep hearing that standard plastic cement/glue doesn't 'melt' PP Plastics and that superglue is still needed.

But the superglue makes an Incredibly strong bond with their plastic. At Least on par with GW's plastic and plastic glue.

Mick A wrote:Am I the only one who thinks $50 for a platic starter is way over priced? I thought the idea of plastic figures was to make them cheaper...?

Mick

Heh, how quaint.

You're a GW fan and you still think "plastic = cheaper"? lol

That's what ultimately gets me, people will happily pay $50 for five plastic models, or $45 for three plastic models from GW, but when PP sells a plastic starter box for their armies with a comparable number of models for a comparable price, they get called out for it? (Obviously I'm talking about the other thread about the Cryx box where the price got criticized, but still.)

It seems to me that the price is alright, in that it comes with cars with the units' info and the quickstart rules. If the thing about their sort of plastic being optimized for superglue, that's fantastic news. Since I have only one metal model in my Ork army, and it's held together with a crap-ton of superglue, I am very interested in this technology.

Sidstyler wrote:You're a GW fan and you still think "plastic = cheaper"? lol

That's what ultimately gets me, people will happily pay $50 for five plastic models, or $45 for three plastic models from GW, but when PP sells a plastic starter box for their armies with a comparable number of models for a comparable price, they get called out for it? (Obviously I'm talking about the other thread about the Cryx box where the price got criticized, but still.)

Actually I dont call myself a GW fan or buy their over priced plastics (I am currently working on an Empire army using Warlord plastic ECW figures, 90 infantry and 20 cavalry for £50).

I think the Warmachine plastic starters are overpriced as thats around what they charge for the metal starter sets (with cards and quick start rules...).

Mick

Mick A wrote:

Sidstyler wrote:You're a GW fan and you still think "plastic = cheaper"? lol

That's what ultimately gets me, people will happily pay $50 for five plastic models, or $45 for three plastic models from GW, but when PP sells a plastic starter box for their armies with a comparable number of models for a comparable price, they get called out for it? (Obviously I'm talking about the other thread about the Cryx box where the price got criticized, but still.)

Actually I dont call myself a GW fan or buy their over priced plastics (I am currently working on an Empire army using Warlord plastic ECW figures, 90 infantry and 20 cavalry for £50).

I think the Warmachine plastic starters are overpriced as thats around what they charge for the metal starter sets (with cards and quick start rules...).

Mick

Yes their starters are $50. They have been for over 5 years and haven't increased in price. I bought AoBR when it came out for $50. What's it cost now?

PP seems to price for the long term. They do not "Adjust" prices every year like GW. So initially they seem high. As years go by, they are more reasonable.

skrulnik wrote:

Mick A wrote:

Sidstyler wrote:You're a GW fan and you still think "plastic = cheaper"? lol

That's what ultimately gets me, people will happily pay $50 for five plastic models, or $45 for three plastic models from GW, but when PP sells a plastic starter box for their armies with a comparable number of models for a comparable price, they get called out for it? (Obviously I'm talking about the other thread about the Cryx box where the price got criticized, but still.)

Actually I dont call myself a GW fan or buy their over priced plastics (I am currently working on an Empire army using Warlord plastic ECW figures, 90 infantry and 20 cavalry for £50).

I think the Warmachine plastic starters are overpriced as thats around what they charge for the metal starter sets (with cards and quick start rules...).

Mick

Yes their starters are $50. They have been for over 5 years and haven't increased in price. I bought AoBR when it came out for $50. What's it cost now?

PP seems to price for the long term. They do not "Adjust" prices every year like GW. So initially they seem high. As years go by, they are more reasonable.

The starters over here were originally £25 then went up to £30 but thats for metal figures. PP were a good alternative to GW price wise but now, in my opinion, they have just joined GW in the 'lets see what we can get away with' league. If others are happy with the prices thats fine but as someone who's played Warmachine since it was first released I feel let down by them...

Mick

Have we not talked about starter prices already?

The thing is, if this theme keeps surfacing up on the PP threads something tells me its not just me considering PP outpriced themselves.

Also think these starters do not offer anything that would spike my interest... Its more, look were plastic now so no more cool heavy metal jacks for you... and the price is the same (expensive)... no extra minis, no limited stuff, no geek goodies... nothing whatsoever to lure me to buy a new starter... Make a hobby deal starter with say some extreme miniatures at 30% off and my attention is on.

PP was never cheaper per model than GW, you just need less models for a proper game.

And most of the time, GW's plastics are cheaper then what the same thing cost in metal.

What are these going to cost in the UK? I've seen their plastic war jacks around and they're usually around £22, for something the size of a Killa Kan*, that to me certainly seems costly.

*Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I must say however that I love that bird in the red coat from the Khador set, really want that figure for my Long coats Necromunda gang now.

Never say never! Especially to a gamer as we will remember it and call you on it later. So plastics in full force now too, didn't they also say they would not redo the rule sets? We all know that you either progress or you die. So whipin your thang out and wavin it around is more likely to get it hacked off then empress people now adays. I like the attempt at honesty but try to keep to what you stand on high and shout.

To me PP press just never was what it claimed to be. I played when it first came out, bought a lot of Khador stuff for the dream of steam powered giant robot fights, where the game was supposed to be cheaper and you didn't need a ton of stuff to play well. So the first big events showed just how wrong I was. I don't think in the first few years I was one army that won an event that wasn't Infantry heavy, easily costing the same as a GW army as well as not a whole lot of Giant robot fights.

It just seemed to me to be street fighter with minis. If you could get your combo off first you could keep the guy pushed up against the screen and keep kickin him until you won. Pretty much the same way I saw the more competitive games of Warmachine work. I worked at a shop Near St. Louis where we had some guys who really had the game down, pretty sure a few of them have one the big events at Gencon and the PP sponsored ones as well. So I might have been seeing the Apex of the games execution but it just wasn't fun.

I am digressing so back to the true topic, the metals esp the Khador ones were cool but thick and if you had a gap or mold issue it was nuts. So the plastics might help that out for those still playing. I have seen a few of these in person and the look is off some how, like the character of metal is lost in the translation to plastic, if that makes any sense. As for the pricing, well the precedent has been set and its a business at the end of the day so there is no real shock there.

Looks interesting. My local store has a big PP display, and I'm always checkin it out, thinking maybe I'll get into it. I'm not a big fan of metal minis, so I've been hesitant. This may push me into it.

As to the price, $50 doesn't seem to bad to me. I mean, isn't it like getting 2-3 GW dreadnoughts plus a character fig in the same box? If GW were to do that, it would be like $100 or more (though the GW dreadnought has a lot more bits and options).

Some of those warcaster resculpts look amazing. Finally a non-sillly pStryker!

Captain Vyper wrote:Never say never! Especially to a gamer as we will remember it and call you on it later. So plastics in full force now too, didn't they also say they would not redo the rule sets? We all know that you either progress or you die. So whipin your thang out and wavin it around is more likely to get it hacked off then empress people now adays. I like the attempt at honesty but try to keep to what you stand on high and shout.

To me PP press just never was what it claimed to be. I played when it first came out, bought a lot of Khador stuff for the dream of steam powered giant robot fights, where the game was supposed to be cheaper and you didn't need a ton of stuff to play well. So the first big events showed just how wrong I was. I don't think in the first few years I was one army that won an event that wasn't Infantry heavy, easily costing the same as a GW army as well as not a whole lot of Giant robot fights.

It just seemed to me to be street fighter with minis. If you could get your combo off first you could keep the guy pushed up against the screen and keep kickin him until you won. Pretty much the same way I saw the more competitive games of Warmachine work. I worked at a shop Near St. Louis where we had some guys who really had the game down, pretty sure a few of them have one the big events at Gencon and the PP sponsored ones as well. So I might have been seeing the Apex of the games execution but it just wasn't fun.

I am digressing so back to the true topic, the metals esp the Khador ones were cool but thick and if you had a gap or mold issue it was nuts. So the plastics might help that out for those still playing. I have seen a few of these in person and the look is off some how, like the character of metal is lost in the translation to plastic, if that makes any sense. As for the pricing, well the precedent has been set and its a business at the end of the day so there is no real shock there.

This has never held true to me.

From the start, Prime had warcasters, warjacks, and units. The starter sets get you accustomed to the
game mechanics, but armies have always been a solid part of the game. The appeal was always that
one army had units that differed in personality and style even though they came with similar themes.

So Iron Fang Pikemen were different from ManoWars, etc.

I guess the pricepoint is to make the game remain at such a price instead of raising the price of
metal starters. It isn't simply a recasting of old stuff, but it's actual new plastic sculpts, which is nice.

hi

I hate to sound like a broken mp3 here, but does anyone know if Gorten & Magnus will be getting plastic battle boxes?

I don't really want to encourage the price debate going on, I've got my own thoughts, which mean nothing, but I'm still curious about the Merc factions - I mean, they're getting their own ''Forces'' book, but they're still treated like the dirty quasi-pederast uncle at Thanksgiving dinner who nobody wants to acknowledge in hopes they'll sulk back into the shadows?

hah - sorry for opining there a bit...my question remains...

Mick A wrote:Am I the only one who thinks $50 for a platic starter is way over priced? I thought the idea of plastic figures was to make them cheaper...?
Mick

We are entering times when people say: "How, you can afford an all plastic army? Poor me has to buy the old metal originals!"
Guess, I will keep my cheepo and better sculpted metal miniatures then

But seriously, most people went to Privateer to save money. This is not a wise move to raise the hurdle for beginners that high.
What's next? Make a big secret out of new releases?

Kroothawk wrote:
But seriously, most people went to Privateer to save money. This is not a wise move to raise the hurdle for beginners that high.

Well at least you cant say they fooled ya, if its ridiculous expensive from the begining theres no reason to be surprised in the end.

Next I see mass skirmish with lots of rank&file troops

NAVARRO wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:
But seriously, most people went to Privateer to save money. This is not a wise move to raise the hurdle for beginners that high.

Well at least you cant say they fooled ya, if its ridiculous expensive from the begining theres no reason to be surprised in the end.

I don't understand how the price is causing such a fuss when it is the same as it has been for some time. I'm not sure when the starter sets became $50 but this is not a change in price, so the value remains the same. I admit that some of the plastic sculpts don't have the right vibe for me and I would like it if the prices went down, but when has that ever happened in game companies?

The only comparable popular game I can find for scale is Malifaux. That needs a $35 rulebook and $35 starter set to get playing with one faction. PP needs a $30 rulebook and $50 set to start playing (rulebook optional but very useful). 40k just isn't worth comparing with as the price of entry is much higher if you choose one of the 12 armies that do not feature in AOBR.

I didn't get into Privateer to save money, but I have found it cheaper to get playing. I have starter sets that will let me play right away and each time I add a model I can play with it easily, without needing large groups. Each starter set will let me get a good vibe for the faction with a $50 (retail) investment, whereas even after getting the rulebook for 40k, I need to invest a lot (Battleforce @ $90 plus other bits for those BFs not game/FOC legal) just to get going.


Of course, if you are comparing it to historicals or smaller games, then WM/H comes off almost as badly as GW does. I also play Nuclear Renaissance (www.ramshacklegames.co.uk) and that is a small-publisher game that kills major games on pricing. Wargames Factory also makes some lovely historical miniatures that I would love to get (48x roman Legionnaires for $29.95, yes please).

Kroothawk wrote:
But seriously, most people went to Privateer to save money.

That wasn't the experience around me when they came out. Most people I know went because it was a more solid ruleset than GW's and was an actual serious tournament scene.

Little Pete wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:
But seriously, most people went to Privateer to save money. This is not a wise move to raise the hurdle for beginners that high.

Well at least you cant say they fooled ya, if its ridiculous expensive from the begining theres no reason to be surprised in the end.

I don't understand how the price is causing such a fuss when it is the same as it has been for some time. I'm not sure when the starter sets became $50 but this is not a change in price, so the value remains the same. I admit that some of the plastic sculpts don't have the right vibe for me and I would like it if the prices went down, but when has that ever happened in game companies?

His "fuss" isn't over the price by itself. It's the fact that they replaced the metal Warjacks with the plastic kits--but only give you the parts to build that one specific Warjack. And it seems like the WM players are acting like it's the Second Coming.

You're getting the same thing as the last box. There's barely any difference. You still need to use the exact same glue(since Polystyrene Cement doesn't work on that hard plastic), still get the exact same parts, and even the same Warcaster. The biggest difference is "IT'S PLASTIC!1111!!!11!" and it's a new sculpt of the Warcaster.

The only comparable popular game I can find for scale is Malifaux. That needs a $35 rulebook and $35 starter set to get playing with one faction. PP needs a $30 rulebook and $50 set to start playing (rulebook optional but very useful). 40k just isn't worth comparing with as the price of entry is much higher if you choose one of the 12 armies that do not feature in AOBR.

That's ridiculous. Infinity's got its rules available for free online, and you can play right out of the starter box. Which is at most, $40.

Of course the "popular" bit may be an issue, but when you can get two starter sets and some other random bits and bobbles to fill out forces for the price of a rulebook and a starter set from PP...you can easily run demos to get people interested.

I didn't get into Privateer to save money, but I have found it cheaper to get playing. I have starter sets that will let me play right away and each time I add a model I can play with it easily, without needing large groups. Each starter set will let me get a good vibe for the faction with a $50 (retail) investment, whereas even after getting the rulebook for 40k, I need to invest a lot (Battleforce @ $90 plus other bits for those BFs not game/FOC legal) just to get going.

Gee, it's cheaper to play a small-scale skirmish styled game with a(relatively) low model count than a regimental/company level game? Say it ain't so!

Of course, if you are comparing it to historicals or smaller games, then WM/H comes off almost as badly as GW does. I also play Nuclear Renaissance (www.ramshacklegames.co.uk) and that is a small-publisher game that kills major games on pricing. Wargames Factory also makes some lovely historical miniatures that I would love to get (48x roman Legionnaires for $29.95, yes please).

Warmachine comes off as badly as GW does simply because it does require just as much investment to be able to field a more flexible force.

Kanluwen wrote:You're getting the same thing as the last box. There's barely any difference. You still need to use the exact same glue(since Polystyrene Cement doesn't work on that hard plastic), still get the exact same parts, and even the same Warcaster. The biggest difference is "IT'S PLASTIC!1111!!!11!" and it's a new sculpt of the Warcaster.

I know that. I would have liked it if the plastic models had come with all of the options but I wasn't expecting it. Otherwise we might have seen an AC, Tl autocannon, Missile Launcher and Lascannon coming with the BL dreadnought and the terminators coming with heavy weapon options. I consider the plastic versions about the same as the metal ones overall. I would find any 'second coming' attitudes to be very silly but then fanboys tend not to have the most obkective views.

Kanluwen wrote:That's ridiculous. Infinity's got its rules available for free online, and you can play right out of the starter box. Which is at most, $40.
Of course the "popular" bit may be an issue, but when you can get two starter sets and some other random bits and bobbles to fill out forces for the price of a rulebook and a starter set from PP...you can easily run demos to get people interested.

Fair point. I don't follow infinity and haven't played it so I was sticking to what I knew better. I've looked it up and that is a pretty nice game. I like the Haqqislam vibe in particular. At 32 euros for the set it does compare nicely to WM at 40 euros for a battlebox and 30 for the rulebook. Still there is something about big stompy robots that is very cool. If you want cheap, Nuclear Renaissance 2 from Ramshackle games gives you 4 vehicles and 3 gangs (14 figures) with the rules for 48 pounds.

Gee, it's cheaper to play a small-scale skirmish styled game with a(relatively) low model count than a regimental/company level game? Say it ain't so!

My point was that it is playable more quickly at a cheaper level. It can scale up very quickly both game and money wise but I think there is more range of playable points levels. Smaller 40k games are challenging sometimes and prone to being unbalanced without modifying the rules. Of course, I guess very large WM games might become more unbalanced and challenging with multiple warcasters and unit combinations.

Gee, it's far cheaper to buy models from companies who supply historical models in hard polystyrene plastic and still play at the same model count as GW? Say it ain't so.

Warmachine comes off as badly as GW does simply because it does require just as much investment to be able to field a more flexible force.

I agree that both of them come off very badly compared to other games. Sadly they have a real hold on their respective markets so that large competitors don't seem to be coming (perhaps Mantic in a few years) on strongly.

The point I was trying to make was that plastic figures are meant to be cheaper but PP seem t be following the GW route now.

How long will it be before more companies start thinking 'hey, the mugs pay it for PP and GW figures, lets do the same!'

Mick

Speaking of infinity the minatures alone are far superior than anything PP and GW puts out... not only that but they are very constant quality wise wich is a thing not common on both big boys. Yes Im a Infinity fan A more obscure skirmish game named Alkemy also has some of the coolest models around for interesting prices and the game seems like a great candidate to the dead Confrontation game.

All in all both PP and GW do push the prices up... and thats ok if you feel you get your money worth in funtime... things for me get more complex when I can only feed one expensive mistress.

When GW issues cheaper plastics for the price of metals, they at least don't use the same 8 year old moulds, they release new and better sculpts. I thought that Privateer wanted to be the somewhat different and fair company, now they try to rip off their customers even more than GW: Old sculpts, cheaper material, higher price. They don't have my sympathies.

Concerning Infinity. Nice miniatures, but for advanced modellers (often difficult to assemble). And you need lots of terrain for the game IIRC.

Kroothawk wrote:Concerning Infinity. Nice miniatures, but for advanced modellers (often difficult to assemble). And you need lots of terrain for the game IIRC.

They advise against open spaces greater than 10" across

Kroothawk wrote:When GW issues cheaper plastics for the price of metals, they at least don't use the same 8 year old moulds, they release new and better sculpts. I thought that Privateer wanted to be the somewhat different and fair company, now they try to rip off their customers even more than GW: Old sculpts, cheaper material, higher price. They don't have my sympathies.

Concerning Infinity. Nice miniatures, but for advanced modellers (often difficult to assemble). And you need lots of terrain for the game IIRC.

Um, the plastic boxed sets are all new sculpts.