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If you really care about your list and don't want to waste money on units that won't perform to what you think they will perform to, would rather hear the truth as opposed to worthless water downed opinions that are written to make you feel good about yourself and don't mind possibly getting an earful in exchange for advice that is 20x better than the majority of information found here, Pause. Take a deep breath, and go here. http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com . I promise you won't regret it. No site is guaranteed to provide you with wins, but the conversations that go on at Yes the Truth Hurts are on a totally different level than the average conversation that goes on here, or at any blog for that matter. You don't have to trust everything Stelek says, you don't have to like the man, but if you listen to him your 40K intelligence will improve. Unless you are really stubborn of course.

Now most of you are probably wondering why I posted this under army lists. The main reason is because as I was scrolling through page after page of submitted lists, I realized that by reading these lists my 40k ability isn't going to improve at all, and that my random comments to improve lists are ultimately not going to be paid attention to, as people choose to hear what they want to hear. So I decided to post this to direct the majority of people who wish to see how to build a competitive list, to a site that regularly puts out competitive lists. Now I'm not asking you to all submit your lists to Stelek for his approval. That would probably result in everyones ego being torn apart as he tears apart your list in similar fashion. All I'm saying is go over and just read his blog, casually and observe the critiques he makes. I'm not going to attest to his status as a 40k god. By all means I don't even know if such a thing exists, but by reading his site (now religiously) my own 40k skills have vastly improved in regards to both play and list building.

So please enjoy, but most importantly hopefully learn and cross your fingers that this post doesn't get banned.

Note: By all means I'm not trying to bash this site. I enjoy reading Battle Reports ( especially yours Dash as they are filled with pretty pictures ), but I honestly feel that random critique of lists on a forum is not as effective as a blog.

moderator wrote:As a reminder, insulting past or present Dakka users is not allowed. Please remember this rule before posting.

I'm no expert, but that seemed like an AD to me, didn't we all sign up with the promise of no ADS? We all know other forums exist dude!

GO DAKKA!

I wanted to report obvious troll as obvious but wasn't sure...

Seemed a bit mean gunning for having 2/2 of his threads closed (please?<3)

We can report people? Awesome...what does Trolling mean though?

That little yellow triangle, push it, fill in the space the details and hit "GO", it's for rule breaking.

(It works too!)

Don't mean to feed the troll but to answer why people learn here is because its not one opinion. Yeah there are internet hard lists but I have never gone to a tournament and seen the exact same army, theres always a personalization to it. And even if theyre were 2 exactly the same lists they could be run in different ways. When you recieve the opinions of 500 people instead of 1 your mind floats around to millions of possiblities and can often combine ideas or tweak variations to suit your style.

yeah you can learn from that blog but you learn a helluva lot more here.

Well put fuegan, everytime I post one of my bad ideas up here I always get tonnes of constructive criticism. Also, sometimes its fun to just play the game for the fun of it, rather that crushing your opponents morale with a super competitive list.

Thank Chris, I looked over and noticed that little Triangle, once again, I ask an obvious question!

Doh!

On a related note, I always wondered how people did that boxed line thingy until now!

I really should have read those introductory messages more carefully! And by carefully I mean...at all!

Mmm yeas the blog from a person who never seems to actually play in a tournament...

What has stelek actually won in terms of tourneys or competitions?

I like his army lists, they used to make me ponder 'oh yeah, that's a good point'.

But his attitude on both this site and his own blog is talking with absolute authority, I'm keen to understand what his credentials are in that regard?

I'm no prude (you'll have to trust me on this one!), but the constant use of expletives as unnecessary 'sentence enhancers' is more than a little off putting.

I'm sure there's some good advice in there somewhere though...

@ Moderators

I did not mean to insult any Dakka members at all in this thread. I actually stated that I do enjoy reading posts of several members of this forum ( I only mentioned Dash). I only posted this to try to broaden the minds of readers. I don't know how this makes me a troll, if it does, then by all means I am one. My only purpose is to give people more resources. Some people don't like the blog I linked to, some people don't like this blog, but that doesn't mean that that either site does not present it's own tactical advice. I would rather a reader of this forum or that blog come here or go there and actually read something and give it a chance, then just file it away as rubbish. If my attempts to enhance the general quality of gaming as a whole label me as a troll, then so be it.

I find it very unlikely that you are a troll. People (seem to) have a very negative impression of Stelek around here. Mind you, many of the posts actually on topic so far only say they dislike the attitude he gives off,which I completely agree with.

On the other hand. If you have the time, and you can take rude language (we are on the internet after all) I would say, check it out. There are some interesting ideas there, but take it with a grain of salt. The lists good and while they are above average in competitiveness (or at least they appear to be) they are certainly not end all be all. Then again neither are the lists here, we usually just don't claim to be.

Mind you, the whole first paragraph of your post does seem to be rippng on Dakka and it's advice. While I can understand the principal of expanding your fellow gamers horizons. It comes across more like trying to convert people to Stelek's blog.

I appreciate it. I wasn't trying to offend anyone, I was just trying to basically do what you stated, expand the opinions of users here. I appreciate your support in my efforts

I'm sure youy're not trying to offend anyone. Personally, I enjoy some (not all) of Stelek's posts, but I think Dakka's better.

It's because (someone pointed this out before, just wanted to share my opinion) you get to hear from so many differnent people and so many views, not just one 'ol dude! If he suits your style that's fine, whatever floatsyour boat. You're bound to like some more than others- it just suits your playing style or ideals!

Sure, your idea might be recieved well, but I've had several lists that have been picked apart! As to the quality of your answers- if they are factually wrong, most people will correct them.

On a final not- Alpharius, you're right! Looking at some posts makes my eyes burn! Ow! (This does not apply to all posts). This is coming from a guy who grew up with a family of sailors.

Stelek is still a good resource, and I'm sure he has sound advice, but Dakka is just more open!

Just my 2 cents.

Personally I find the layout of the other site to be awkward.

I dunno about all the Stelek hate... I've never really been involved in any of that.

I did like his article here on dakka abou CSMs though. Didn't agree with everything, but it was nice to read as a new player.

I liked his article in the May edition.

^^^

Meh....

The writer of the blog has some points, but the delivery system of those good points is lacking. Let me give an example...

though the Scout/Smoke Launcher crap is bulls*** that needs to be re-addressed by GW. I will gladly take my smoked vehicle up your tailpipe on turn 1 and fry you, then take my 4+ cover save from my pre-game scout move

This negative attitude towards a hobby is not really something I identify with for 2 important reasons.

1) I play a game to have fun. If I want to have a negative attitude about something, Ill go sit in traffic.
2) There is a built-in "cool" limit with 40k. Were playing with toy soldiers. People should not take themselves to seriously with this game.

labmouse42 wrote: People should not take themselves to seriously with this game.

Brother, no truer words have ever been spoken!

labmouse42 wrote:Meh....

The writer of the blog has some points, but the delivery system of those good points is lacking. Let me give an example...

though the Scout/Smoke Launcher crap is bulls*** that needs to be re-addressed by GW. I will gladly take my smoked vehicle up your tailpipe on turn 1 and fry you, then take my 4+ cover save from my pre-game scout move

This negative attitude towards a hobby is not really something I identify with for 2 important reasons.

1) I play a game to have fun. If I want to have a negative attitude about something, Ill go sit in traffic.
2) There is a built-in "cool" limit with 40k. Were playing with toy soldiers. People should not take themselves to seriously with this game.

Yeah. I'm not suggesting that you read the blog for everything. In fact if you really care about this stuff, try to avoid his opinion on the state of the game. Stelek has a mission he set in line and it's his. If you like it, that's cool and if not, that's cool also. I would just stick to his list building advice if you are first time reader though.

To be honest...many of his lists copy and paste mentalities are rather boring and unimaginative. It irks me to see that the only way to win in his book is to take something that works and copy it a half dozen times and sell it.

His 'Ard Boyz list challenge was some what interesting and I'd like to see if anyone really went through with the challenge.

40k isn't the type of game to get that level of scrutiny. People can't even agree on the rules enough to say that any list works 100%. Why not play an actual competitive game with solid rules if you want this level of detail?

The whole copy and paste mentality revolves around the concept of target priority. If everything is the same, or presents the same amount of threat to your army, which do you target? It's not that he see that as the only way to win. He just views it as one of the most strategic methods of list building. Sure you can build an army with no duplicates, but is it easier to see how it works and pick it apart? Yes. In a practical sense, if one unit is the best way to do something, why not duplicate it into effectiveness?

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:40k isn't the type of game to get that level of scrutiny. People can't even agree on the rules enough to say that any list works 100%. Why not play an actual competitive game with solid rules if you want this level of detail?

Chess or Pool are good examples.

Its been a good while since the bishop was nurfed.
Everyone knows that 9 ball has been OP since the last table was released

stelek makes interesting points, but i'm sick and tired of reading posts by people on his blog that email him hailing him as the savior of 40k, how they were garbage till they read his blog, and he made it better.

everyone needs to get over their "stelek is a god" complex and understand that while he makes good points (sometimes) he's not the damn end word on 40k competitive lists.

labmouse42 wrote:

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:40k isn't the type of game to get that level of scrutiny. People can't even agree on the rules enough to say that any list works 100%. Why not play an actual competitive game with solid rules if you want this level of detail?

Chess or Pool are good examples.

Its been a good while since the bishop was nurfed.
Everyone knows that 9 ball has been OP since the last table was released

Or Magic. Even Yu-Gi-Oh! has an extremely tight rules set, with rulings available on nearly any instance possible. Anima Tactics, Flames of War... there are other options than building and painting a whole army to have a "stupid" TO rule that your army doesn't work.

Honersstodnt wrote:stelek makes interesting points, but i'm sick and tired of reading posts by people on his blog that email him hailing him as the savior of 40k, how they were garbage till they read his blog, and he made it better.

everyone needs to get over their "stelek is a god" complex and understand that while he makes good points (sometimes) he's not the damn end word on 40k competitive lists.

I see a lot more "Stelek is the devil" complex than "Stelek is a god" complex in general. I would rather people just realize that it's the internet and it's no big deal to get your ego shattered, smothered, covered and torn to little bits over a toy soldier game. Then people would actually care to read what he has to say.

His analysis between Tau and SW alone makes me think he is a joke. http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/2010/06/rating-armies-in-40k-primer.html

Look at how he always thinks his opponents are always dumb. Missile Launchers having no range to his suits? Or deploy in the middle clamped together but eat his hammerblast blast? Cool have fun punching through the 3+ armour while the Missile Launcher punches through the 4+ cover save of the suits and instant killing them.

Seeing him communicate with Hulkmash suddenly made me realize how much smarter Hulkmash is.

His ideas sound brilliant to some simply because these people don't think hard enough to realize the flaws of his presentation.