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Im not very good at stats but I think if your running 15 lootas (the whole Ld buisness asside) it would be better to put them into 3 x 5 man units because you would stastically get more shots out of them overall.


Basically would rolling 3d3 vs rolling 1d3 net you more shots overall?

Yes, but then you would fill up your entire elites slot with a small group of only 15 lootas. Most people like to run two squads or lootas, or take nobz.

It would not net you more shots overall, but would put you closer to an "average" amount of shooting for 15 total lootas.

You're running out of elite slots then...

Burnas...

Nobz...

Though, OTOH, you're being hurt if you roll mediocrely, as opposed to if you would be lucky enough to roll a 3 most of the game.

3d3 x 5

1d3 x 15

To be fair, unless you really want burnas or Kommandos, this setup doesn't hurt you too much. Nobs can always be taken as troops with a warboss, and if 15 lootas is all you want/need, you don't suffer much.

Burnas are nasty...

Anyone love this new orkmoticon?

Yeah, I love my burnas, the 3 mekboys give them some scariness too with usually at least 1 S8 shot getting out.

And face palm will always be a great emoticon. Now where is that double face palm?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yeah, I've been putting them in a battle wagon recently with a big mek, lots of nasty when the flame template is in range and you can multiply the hits by 12! I got 48 hits on gaunts the other day, good times!

Globzog wrote:Im not very good at stats but I think if your running 15 lootas (the whole Ld buisness asside) it would be better to put them into 3 x 5 man units because you would stastically get more shots out of them overall.

Basically would rolling 3d3 vs rolling 1d3 net you more shots overall?

Statistically, no. You have exactly the same range and average number of shots regardless of how the lootas are grouped. Instead, you have a different distribution of shots. In three groups, the distribution is weighted towards the average (meaning you are more likely to get around 30 shots than you are to get 15 or 45), whereas in one group, the distribution is flat (meaning you have the same chance to get 15, 30 or 45 shots). Basically, putting them in three groups means you are less likely to get a really bad result, but you're also less likely to get a really good one.

The best way to get more shots is to take three groups of 15 lootas.

Three groups would make you less likely to have a turn where you get unlucky and everyone gets only one shot. This works against you too though, no lucking out 1/3 of the time getting 3 shots for all 15.

Take 3x15 lootas instead

If you have the elite slots open, and you don't want more than 15 lootas, I think it's a good idea. You can now take down a max of 3 different units each turn instead of a max of 1. Splitting them into three groups can also make them more survivable against some opponents, and they can threaten more of the field.

Kaime wrote:Take 3x15 lootas instead

While that is very cool , what about the also cool ( and in same box ) burna boys!!

Same average, less overall deviation. A bit of deviation is nothing to worry about

There is also other factors to consider...

1) 3 squads can give up 3 KPs
2) One round of good (or bad, depending on your point of view) shooting against you will not wipe all 15 lootas
3) It takes separate attacks to kill 3 loota squads (assault or shooting - barring you keep them spread out)
4) You can cover multiple lanes of fire with 3 squads.
5) You can shoot multiple targets, taking down up to 3 rhinos a turn, for example.
6) 3 squads can contest 3 different objectives

I personally think those advantages outweigh the drawback of 3 KPs.

Orks rarely worry about things like how many killpoints are in the army.

In terms of which is better.....it *REALLY* depends on what is in the rest of the list and how you play it.


*EDIT*

OP, could you post your list? What context you're using the Lootas in? Giving advice without good contextual knowledge of the situation you're trying to give advice about is usually bad advice.

Loota squad size depends on a lot: points available, slots available, synergy with your overall list, the role they are trying to play, what else presents a threat that will take fire off/direct fire towards the lootas, etc. Additionally, how effective it is depends on a lot, including: targets in opponent's list, ability of opponent to target the lootas, cover available to help survive fire, line of sight, etc.

Look, I love lootas and think, on paper, they are one of the best units in the ork 'dex. But they do not always perform and have several inherent flaws.

The big squads help mitigate the leadership problem by being fearless until nearly at half strength, but they are a deathstar of sorts and will become a high priority target. They are unwieldy to field, as 15 bodies can be hard to put into some areas of terrain and still find line of sight, so you quite often lose some shots because you can't physically see your targets. You are tempted to put a babysitter or screening unit with the large squad, which further ups the cost and prioritizes them as a target. They can be overkill, meaning lots of wasted shots (though with some assurance that one target you want dead is dead). When lootas flee, they typically leave the board, so that means at times you lose 7+ 15-point models.

The small squads have leadership issues. Small squads can be wiped out by lesser firepower, but at least mitigate the "fleeing off the board" effect. Smaller squads do not necessarily do the job, especially when they only fire 1 shot each. They are easier to hide in cover and get line of sight for, and are less of a priority target.

So, with all those and other factors to consider, it really depends on your list and the role they are needed to perform in order to advise on the size (as Dash said).

It was just a general question, all other factors asside, stastically what would get you the most shots in the course of a game.


I usually play 2250 with no Elites so splitting them isnt a problem. This is the list Im probably going to put Lootas in:

HQ: Ghazghkull Thraka

HQ: Big Mek
Kustom Force Field

Troops: Nobz
6 Nobz
Big Choppa (x2); Choppa (x2); Power Klaw (x2); Slugga (x2); Shoota/Rokkit Kombi-weapon (x2); Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-weapon (x2);Cybork Body; Waaagh! Banner (x1)
Painboy
Battlewagon
'Ard Case; Boarding Plank; Grot Rigger; Red Paint Job

Troops: Boyz
19 Shotta Boyz
1 Boyz Nob
Power Klaw; 'Eavy Armour; Bosspole

Troops: Boyz
19 Shotta Boyz
1 Boyz Nob
Power Klaw; 'Eavy Armour; Bosspole

Troops: Boyz
11 Choppa Boyz
1 Boyz Nob
Power Klaw; 'Eavy Armour; Bosspole
1 Trukk
Rokkit Launcha; Boarding Plank; Red Paint Job; Wreckin' Ball

Troops: Boyz
11 Choppa Boyz
1 Boyz Nob
Power Klaw; 'Eavy Armour; Bosspole
1 Trukk
Rokkit Launcha; Boarding Plank; Red Paint Job; Wreckin' Ball

Troops: Boyz
11 Choppa Boyz
1 Boyz Nob
Power Klaw; 'Eavy Armour; Bosspole
1 Trukk
Rokkit Launcha; Boarding Plank; Red Paint Job; Wreckin' Ball

Fast Attack: Warbuggies x 2
2x Twin Linked Rokkit Launcha; Red Paint Job

Fast Attack: Warbuggies x 2
2x Twin Linked Rokkit Launcha; Red Paint Job

Heavy Support: Battlewagon (1#, 115 Pts)
1 Battlewagon @ 115 Pts
Big Shoota (x1); Kannon; Grot Rigger; Red Paint Job

Heavy Support: Battlewagon (1#, 115 Pts)
1 Battlewagon @ 115 Pts
Big Shoota (x1); Kannon; Grot Rigger; Red Paint Job

Total Roster Cost: 2021

2250 is an odd points level, but if its what you play locally fine then.

I like 15 Lootas, but I usually take 2x15 or even 3x15 when I'm using a foot list (2 squads in a horde or Kan wall and 3 in a gunline) list. If your army is more mechanised, small Loota squads are probaby better, but then you lose out on the Burnas, which are awesome indeed in a wagon. I guess 2x5 and 15 Burnas works fine too.

3 x 5

Pros - averages out to 2 shots each much better
- can deploy in 3 different spots and cover the field much better
- with luck can get rid of 3 different targets
- can't be gotten rid of with 1 assault/lucky shot
- small units means generally your enemy is less likely to make the effort to kill them
- easier to deploy in cover since you don't need to find a piece of cover big enough for 15 orks

Cons
- 3KP's
- uses all your elites. Not always a problem but as you run B-Wagon spam consider some burnaz
- only takes 2 casualties to force an ld check

1 x 15

Pros - if you luck out you really luck out and suddenly have 45 shots!
- fearless
- only 1 kp
- only 1 elite slot

Cons
- dependent on 1 dice roll for shots
- hard to deploy 15 orks into cover
- only 1 target may be shot a turn
- more difficult to get line of sight across the entire field
- 1 assault/lucky shot can take out the whole squad

My take on it is that if you have the elite slots to spare then Multiple Small Units is always better.

Semi OT question here,

Do you guys include Meks in your loota / burna units?
If yes why and with what weapon?

LunaHound wrote:Semi OT question here,

Do you guys include Meks in your loota / burna units?
If yes why and with what weapon?

Not really, the KMB is innacurate, where the burnas are templat and the lootas have volume of fire and range. The opnly reason to take a Mek is if they're in a wagon, then the Mek can fix it, but if I recall correctly, its only weapon destroyed, which isn't a big deal. If he can fix immobilized, then he may be worth it.

That being said, most of the Mek weapons are short ranged, so I'd only ever put one in Burnas if at all.

LunaHound wrote:Semi OT question here,

Do you guys include Meks in your loota / burna units?
If yes why and with what weapon?

No,I just feild a sqaud of 15 lootaz (also have a sqaud of 15 burnaz) and not a mek to be found amongst them.

In the lootaz sqaud,I just simply see no reason to take them,I'd much rather have 15 lootaz shooting ,than 14 and a mek.
In my burna sqaud,where perhaps they may be worth taking,I just prefer the extra toasty-ness of 15 burna boyz.

I think going for three squads of five lootas makes sense when the elite sections stand as auxilleries or helpers. For example, if you're running a kan kall, small squads thin the lines, kill light transport, and act as targets; it's the heavy section that is the hammer, and I'm allowed more targets, and less overkill, for my lootaboys.

LunaHound wrote:Semi OT question here,

Do you guys include Meks in your loota / burna units?
If yes why and with what weapon?

A Free KMB is nice, but they are BS2 Never forget.
It's a good idea hiding a STR8 24" AP2 weapon in a squad, but their BS2.
Big shootas are cool - Statistics say one should hit once.
Oh and when I did shoot my KMB (naturally) I rolled one for my Get Hot! and a 6+ save means one deador guy :(

I seems like a 'good idea' untill it's put into practice where, one of the Orks distinctive factor comes into play Luck~! (BS2)

1/3 of all games are kill points. Splitting a single unit into 3 units adds 2 more kill points to the army. Single suicide deffkopters add 1 kill point each. Cheap expendable and single TL rokket buggies add 1 kill point each. 30 point trukks add 1 kill point each. It all adds up over time. If an ork army has twice the kill points of the other army your opponent only needs to tie in the point cost of units destroyed to pull out clear victory. The only time kill points don't matter in a kill point game is in a total massacre, if the game is at all close kill points matter.