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So over the past few months, like many of the people here I've been drawn into warmachine and away from 40k. I have been playing 40k for niegh on 16 years now since 2nd edition and have loved every minute of it, I and hopefully my 2 main armies sisters and DE will finally get an update! But since my introduction into warmachine, 40k as a whole seems like a much more shallow game. Warmachine is immensely more complicated and rules heavy IMO and I could never have picked up when I did 40k. I can't describe it, but allot of my drive to play 40k has eroded ever since I started reading about warmachine the rules and the armies. I'm not saying I will stop playing 40k I still love it. But I feel this transition allows me to see everything in perspective. 40k to me is a game of a strategy where pre planned armies, deployements or lack there of combined with stastical dice rolling control the outcome of the game. Warmachine on the other hand seems much more tactical especially considering rules like cloud effects or trample or others that allows you to push and pull opponents models or to restrict his avenues for shotting all for short durations. So I guess my point is does anyone else feel this way?

Yes.

Welcome to the Machine!

I could not agree more. The greater options and strategy of Warmachine seems tailor-made for someone who is bored with 40K. I liked 40K more in second edition, because your leaders and other mighty single models could actually do a wider variety of things, rather than acting as simplistic unit buffs. Also, the smaller model count means I won't have to spend six months painting just to have a decent looking starting force. If I could just decide which faction to jump into. (That's a whole different thread, though...)

I guess I'm not alone. Although I totally have the same problem with choosing my faction in WM. It was between cryx adn cignar and finalyl chose cryx cause I don't like the cygnar jack models xcept for thunderhead.

dumplingman wrote:does anyone else feel this way?

+1 here. Except I dumped 12+ years of playing WH40K totally and for 3 years I'm playing WM&H exclusively. Anyways welcome into the Iron Kingdoms world

I like both, but Hordes and Warmachine are slowly becoming my main games. Mostly because of the number of different builds I can run, and the fact that the games seem more fun to me.

I play 40k when I just want to play a fun game and bs with friends.

I play Warmachine when I want a challenging game where I make choices other than "Shoot them, then charge them".

On days where work was especially rough, I just can't play Warmachine. Too much brain juice needed.

But I can play 40k on 1 hour of sleep after a 12 hour shift, and still enjoy the game.

That is the key difference between the 2 for me. Also the fact that I have encountered far less no-win matchups in Warmachine.

I have been the same way lately. Our group has been hammering on 40k for a long time and it seems more luck or the draw on opponents for tournaments. So much rock paper scissors in 40k. I am hoping warmachine will turn out to be more of a thinking mans game.

I started playing 40k in ~2000 near the release of 3rd ed. I switched to WM in 2003 at Gen Con during the initial release. I ended up selling my 40k stuff (blood angles, deathwing, & dark eldar) in 2005 after not having played it in almost 2 years.

Then, during the WM / Hordes edition switch in 09, I tried to get back into 40k. Little things in 40k that barely bothered me in 2002 made me abort my attempt to get back into 40k. Like:

1) Why can't GW just keep the codexes in the same rule set? Can you imagine my surprise when I saw that DE were still using the same codex as when I was last playing 40k? And 40k had moved to 5th ED! Shouldn't there have been, at the very least, electronic updates to the old codexes during the edition change?

2) Why can't someone from the GW staff actually answer rules questions in a timely manner (or even at all)? It's not uncommon to see an infernal or someone with PPS in their name posting on the Warmachine rules forums.

3) Why can't the game be balanced? Just talk to someone passionate about 40k to hear the balance issues about how codex X is OP. And don't even ask a fantasy player what they think of Chaos Daemons!

4) Why don't tournaments play to a final conclusion? You mean, I went undefeated and I still didn't win? Timed turns sure would be a good idea too in events.

Ack! I'm already frustrated just typing the list. Worst thing is, given the number of 40k players around, it would be nice to play a few games if I could get past the issues.

Agree, though there was so much "tactically" and so much meta to dig through that I couldn't get a firm grasp on WM. I understand losing your first few games, but it's like the learning curve to play with anyone decent is huge. That's why I went the way of Anima Tactics, where everyone is a Warcaster

+1

I started Warmachine in my last year of high school, first year of college, so about... five, six years ago? In St. Louis, 40k's historically been a basement game, so I first got into Warmahordes because I actually saw people playing it at the FLGS. I mostly just painted the models for a while, until about the time Primal came out and, in a battle box game, I got to watch my Titan Gladiator kill Madrak with his own Axer.

Warmahordes is definitely more a thinking game than 40k, due in no small part to the chess-like caster-kill rules. While it's (thankfully) been toned down since MkI, when a game can end on top of turn 1 (1:31, baby!) you really begin to feel the differences between WMH and the seemingly endless brawls 40k offers.

I will say this though: Even with its rock-paper-scissors mechanics, 40k is a hell of a lot more forgiving to a beginner. When you can lose due to a slight mistake in positioning resulting in Beast-09 being able to stick his axe through your meatshield, the game kind of forces you to learn quickly. Skill level is a huge factor in WMH, to the point where we have a local who has gold cards for lists constructed by his opponents.

tl;dr: Great game, lots of tactics, just don't expect to win a tournament in your first year (or two) of playing.

Laughing Man wrote:I started Warmachine in my last year of high school, first year of college

Ha that's me right now... I actually won my demo game and I've been doing alright since then, but the learning curve is pretty steep. (to be fair I did a lot of reading before the demo) So far Warmachine has been fun. I remember when I built an entire list just to kill one model, based on a harebrained scheme that revolved around 2 Reaper harpoon shots at RAT 5, followed by all my jacks ganging up on the model. I've never done that in 40k.

MasterDRD wrote:

Laughing Man wrote:I started Warmachine in my last year of high school, first year of college

Ha that's me right now... I actually won my demo game and I've been doing alright since then, but the learning curve is pretty steep. (to be fair I did a lot of reading before the demo) So far Warmachine has been fun. I remember when I built an entire list just to kill one model, based on a harebrained scheme that revolved around 2 Reaper harpoon shots at RAT 5, followed by all my jacks ganging up on the model. I've never done that in 40k.

Protip: Everyone wins their demo game. As they say, the first hit is free.

But yeah, I've been on the recieving end of one of those Reaper lists before. Ugly, ugly, UGLY things happen when the Butcher gets teamed up on by a Reaper and a pair of Seethers...

@dumplingman

I am in your same shoes. i got into 40k in 1994 with my orks, and ive been in the game since 2008 steadily. i bashed Warmachine until i tried it and man is the game more interesting.

i havent touched my 40k in 6 months or so, and i play warmachine steady every weekend.

for those casually reading, Privateer Press trumps Games Workshop for many reasons, including:

1. Less Price Raises. Seems GW raises are on predictable rotation with no end in sight.

2. There is NO "Rules without Models" crap. All models released have rules, so there is no need to convert your models to fit rules, unlike your blood angels flying land raider stormraven things.

3. PP listens. GW is on it's pedastool and doesnt seem to care about the gamers that support them. just yesterday i emailed PP about a rules/gameplay question and i got an email back within hours. remember the rulez boyz for GW? different answer every time you called? yeah i dont miss that.

4. Vassal. if you dont like vassal that is your thing, but i use it alot to test lists out and play when i cant get to the LGS. yeah so GW chopped their games from being used on vassal, PP? they support it fully.

5. Community. Remember GW outriders and the GW forums? relics now. The PP has a great forum and the press gangers really make stuff happen.

this is just a few points, and sure there are counters. PP has its fanboys, its rules issues. some people dont like metal models, some people say its just a glorified card game, some people say its to competative, but the following is strong, and its here to stay, and im on board with it.

welcome to the iron kingdoms!

I like how you have to think when you play WM. When I first played it, it snapped me out of my decade+ GW tunnel vision and opened me up to tons of games.

i feel the same why i am thinking of selling all my whfb and 40k stuff. for more RETRIBUTION

Same, thinking of selling my 40k Orks, no one plays 40k anyway here. what could I get for 2 black reach's worth of orks + some burna's and kommando's ?

I was where you seem to be a while back....

Now I only play WM/H

I am thinking about bartertowning or ebaying my 40k stuff, but damn was that a huge investment of time and money...

Maybe sell everything off but my main army (orks) ?

Endgame wrote:1) Why can't GW just keep the codexes in the same rule set? Can you imagine my surprise when I saw that DE were still using the same codex as when I was last playing 40k? And 40k had moved to 5th ED! Shouldn't there have been, at the very least, electronic updates to the old codexes during the edition change?

GW is ran by monkey's in heat. WM made a huge switch with the MK II rule set and all you needed was a new faction book and a $20 deck of cards. Why gw can't figure that one out is because they are a bunch of monkey's. In heat.

Endgame wrote:2) Why can't someone from the GW staff actually answer rules questions in a timely manner (or even at all)? It's not uncommon to see an infernal or someone with PPS in their name posting on the Warmachine rules forums.

See the above answer.

Endgame wrote:3) Why can't the game be balanced? Just talk to someone passionate about 40k to hear the balance issues about how codex X is OP. And don't even ask a fantasy player what they think of Chaos Daemons!

See the answer to question 1.

Endgame wrote:4) Why don't tournaments play to a final conclusion? You mean, I went undefeated and I still didn't win? Timed turns sure would be a good idea too in events.

It simply takes to long to play. I suppose you could take the top 4 and play single elimination, but that would take more than all day.

Endgame wrote:Ack! I'm already frustrated just typing the list. Worst thing is, given the number of 40k players around, it would be nice to play a few games if I could get past the issues.

I won't give up on 40k, but I think it my 40k gaming will be restricted to just whatever games. WM is definitely the game to play in a competitive environment.

With the MK II release, it seems to be getting a ton of steam by drawing 40k players. Perhaps this will finally wake up gw. I doubt it. Monkey's in heat usually don't pay much attention to their surroundings.

imweasel wrote:With the MK II release, it seems to be getting a ton of steam by drawing 40k players. Perhaps this will finally wake up gw. I doubt it. Monkey's in heat usually don't pay much attention to their surroundings.

I C wut U did thar...

I agree though. It wasn't necessarily because of MK2, but I'm transitioning from focusing on 40k to focusing on Warmachine now.

glad to find some support out there. I personally love vassal as a way to test 40k armies and I didn't even think about using it for WM. BUt that seems like a great way to actually get into the grove of them game. and PP does actually seem to listen to its player base which is refreshing comign from GW