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Why is it that plastic sci-fi and fantasy figures from the big companies cost the same (if not more) than their metal equivalents but the ones from smaller companies, and any historical plastic figures cost a lot less?

Mick

Because they can charge what they like? Don't bother thinking that GW making stuff in plastic has anything to do with passing on the savings to the customer as they once claimed. Some time back their investor reports claimed that they should start charging plastics at the same as metals, which they now do.

Some companies charge what they need to make a profit (whatever that means for them).

Others, well, there are plenty of old threads about pricing on Dakka.

Howard A Treesong wrote:Because they can charge what they like? Don't bother thinking that GW making stuff in plastic has anything to do with passing on the savings to the customer as they once claimed. Some time back their investor reports claimed that they should start charging plastics at the same as metals, which they now do.

Except for the part where almost every recent plastic model costs less than its metal version did?

What is interesting is that GW sell such a large volume of very expensive models without making any real profit.

GW's plastic figures cost about £1.25 each for basic infantry such as Tau Fire Warriors or Hormagaunts.

Other companies such as Mantic and Wargames Factory are putting out historical, Fantasy and SF figures for about 50p to 80p each.

So the answer to your question is in two parts.

GW are expensive because they have to be to survive.
They can be expensive because users keep buying their figures even at the high price.

Because they want to. GW can do whatever they please, as long as we keep buying their cheapo models.

What about import tax,, also along time ago when people used and even gw them used inferior metals, they switched to white pewter which is very expensive. i my self wish they would open a manufacturing plant here in the us, we need the jobs. It would help the local economy.being a machinist i would love to work for them. more fun !! than my boring job. looking at microns all day, its one millionth of a inch.

col. krazy kenny wrote:What about import tax,, also along time ago when people used and even gw them used inferior metals, they switched to white pewter which is very expensive. i my self wish they would open a manufacturing plant here in the us, we need the jobs. It would help the local economy.being a machinist i would love to work for them. more fun !! than my boring job. looking at microns all day, its one millionth of a inch.

They have manufacturing in the U.S. Memphis has been operating for years now.
I know that they do plastics. I bet they do some metal casting there as well.

Kilkrazy wrote:What is interesting is that GW sell such a large volume of very expensive models without making any real profit.

GW's plastic figures cost about £1.25 each for basic infantry such as Tau Fire Warriors or Hormagaunts.

Other companies such as Mantic and Wargames Factory are putting out historical, Fantasy and SF figures for about 50p to 80p each.

So the answer to your question is in two parts.

GW are expensive because they have to be to survive.
They can be expensive because users keep buying their figures even at the high price.

How come GW's cost more than smaller companies? Surely the more of a figure you produce the cheaper it is?


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lord_blackfang wrote:

Howard A Treesong wrote:Because they can charge what they like? Don't bother thinking that GW making stuff in plastic has anything to do with passing on the savings to the customer as they once claimed. Some time back their investor reports claimed that they should start charging plastics at the same as metals, which they now do.

Except for the part where almost every recent plastic model costs less than its metal version did?

I believe you'll find that more recent releases are on par, price wise, with their metal counterparts (plus some going back a while such as steam tank, fell beast, Stormvermin...).

Mick

Partially because they are paying for more than just miniatures. Most of the other miniature companies don't have nearly the same kind of overhead that GW has, they have their own stores, a legal corps, an entire building full of designers, painters, a printing run. All of that costs money that the smaller companies don't have to pay. Most of them are big if they employ more than a hundred people, GW does thousands and buildings to boot.

Ratbarf wrote:Partially because they are paying for more than just miniatures. Most of the other miniature companies don't have nearly the same kind of overhead that GW has, they have their own stores, a legal corps, an entire building full of designers, painters, a printing run. All of that costs money that the smaller companies don't have to pay. Most of them are big if they employ more than a hundred people, GW does thousands and buildings to boot.

All that shouldn't matter, they should benefit from economy of scale or they're doing it wrong. Expansion is supposed to increase profits not come at the expense of them. What's the point of growing and having stores sprouting up all over the place if all the extra profits are sunk into maintaining them? All companies have designers and sculptors, GW is just larger, they should get benefits from scale there too, as individual staff are a smaller relative investment and risk compared to a small company. Do they really need a large legal department? From what we've seen recently the legal department go out of their way to create reasons to justify their own existance. They dont have a printing run, like everyone else they get it printed by a third party.

But pure economics tells you that the more of a figure/sprue you produce the cheaper it becomes as you make more profit the more you sell...

Mick


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Also, aren't a lot of the GW plastics made in China now? Which makes them even cheaper to produce...

Mick

Mick A wrote:But pure economics tells you that the more of a figure/sprue you produce the cheaper it becomes as you make more profit the more you sell...

Mick


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Also, aren't a lot of the GW plastics made in China now? Which makes them even cheaper to produce...

Mick

That is true but a lot of their income gets eaten up by retail stores that do not make as much money as it costs to run them. Which is why you are starting to see a reduction in the number of stores as well as the number of people working in stores. They also had a lot of debt to pay down after they upgraded to the new plastic machines. So yes they make a lot more than other companies do by selling high priced miniatures but unfortunately for them it gets eaten up by other expenses those smaller companies do not have.

brettz123 wrote:They also had a lot of debt to pay down after they upgraded to the new plastic machines. So yes they make a lot more than other companies do by selling high priced miniatures but unfortunately for them it gets eaten up by other expenses those smaller companies do not have.

But other companies are using plastic casting machines too. If you're talking about their new CAD machine, well it was expensive but I think you are over emphasising the idea that they have debt for it. It cost several thousands, that's not a great deal to a company that has a turnover of many millions.

I look at it this way. You can eat a steak on a high class restaurant and pay for the atmosphere and services. Or go to the Mom's dinner and the same steak cost you 8$. The same is with warhammer vs the other companies.
Although, nothing cost 8 bucks on GW anymore.

The problem is that GW runs on a business model that's so archiac and unsustainable in today's economic world that they need to gouge their prices to obscene levels in order to turn a profit. The entire company would require restructuring to maximize profits, and GW's too lazy to do that. Rather, they just increase prices. If they were to actually move on from a business model that wasn't thought up in th 80's, they could probably afford to lower their prices significantly and still make more profit than they are now.

Come on GW, the internet was the present 10 years ago.

It really comes down to competition.. I imagine one reason WFB makes drastically less money than 40k is that its "generic" fantasy and companies like Mantic make awesome undead models for 1/4th the cost

However, there is no model that is mass produced that you can use to make a space marine army (Using actual space marine looking models). Since they have absolutely no competition why bother lowering prices? If someone can only spend 150$ on models, so what? they're spending 150$ on models either way.. they're just getting less so it only screws over the customer

Its really very hard to find stand in models to make an entire army with. You can use some chapterhouse models for nid bits or eldar jetbikers.. and troll forge for some other random nids, etc.. Good luck making an entire army like you can for WFB

Since GW is a corporation and has to answer to the all mighty share holders EVEN if they did modernize their business all that would do is give big bonuses to the execs and dividends + higher share prices to the share holders. Customers wouldnt see a dime decrease because there is NO competition

Analogy Time!
Alright guys it like a movie theater, they charge a high price on food because people will buy it, if they charge less more people will buy the food but they will still be making the same amount of money as if they were selling if for a lower price because if they sell for low more people will buy but it will still making only a nominal sum

(ya i know it doesn't make much sense, my old man was mumbling to me about it after rugby practice)

Example:
5 people buy $25 worth of food (miniatures) it equals: $125
But if
50 people buy $2.50 worth of food (miniatures) it equals: $125

It's mainly thou because Games Workshop needs to remain competitive in the business world...

Model Costs
The new models may be cheaper but anyone buy any of the new tanks for IG?
Usually 2 sprues in the box, all the extra stuff is gone, they look really lonely in those thick boxes.
Reduction of every extra piece in the box has a direct impact on expense of production.

Overhead Costs
Do you ever hear about some of the more expensive personnel being removed to cut costs who are not performing well?
The main Canadian publishing and distribution center is gone and is now (again) fully being handled in the USA (Canada had it's own mail order and WD publishing). Would have figured this would have saved money. Now they charge MUCH more due to increased shipping costs to Canada.
Their business strategy is to have many bricks and mortar stores mainly not to sell from (many hobby stores do this well), but to create buzz by introducing people to the hobby and keeping a place open to play. This is a very expensive strategy to use. I would add incentives to hobby stores that hold GW hobby days and probably make it quite a reward with money to spare compared to the expense of a store in prime real-estate with typically 4 or so full time employees. Wondering when they will publish WD as an E-book to make it more "convenient" (read: cost savings).

Setting Price
Bit of an irritant, they wait for the year-end financial report in early spring, look at exchange rate and then set price. What burns me is that distribution is from the USA but they have a set price for Canada. Would you believe I ordered from the "American" site to ship to Canada and with our good exchange rate got it CHEAPER than if I ordered at the Canadian site (which is really shipping from the same place). It just hurts my head.

Competition
Let us support War Machine and Flames of War and see if this makes GW afraid. Until then, the prices will not be affected by competition.

I am ranting. I really do not intend to rant. Their stop-gap measures tend to be inane but at least when they take their time with a release the results are OK. But compared to any models out there, they are hugely expensive.

Talizvar- you say support Warmachine but PP are now doing the same thing as GW with their pricing. Look at the new starter sets, the same figures as the original ones except all the figures are plastic now, instead of metal, and they are charging the same price.

I've been buying GW figures since 1980 and playing WHFB and 40k since they were first released but I now have to say enough is enough. I have options for fantasy armies (new Empire army started using Warlord ECW) as I got fed up with 7th edition and sold everything and have a large enough Eldar army for 40k (if I was to start a new one I would probably do an IG using some historical plastics with some slight conversions and other companies for vehicles).

I think I can honestly say I have bought my last GW figure (barring 2nd hand).

Mick

I was in GW Bristol a couple of weeks back, several guys (4) wondered in for a look about and didn't make purchases and one guy just bought a pot of paint.

All of them said they had been priced out, all said something along the lines of 'yeah I'd like to get back into it but I just can't justify the cost'.

It's a great shame. The company should never have been floated out as a PLC.

Yeah, I know. My Mom took me 4 miles to buy Assault on Black reach, and she was like "What? Are you stupid? You're going to spend 80 dollars on that? That's dumb".

I still bought it, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat, it's a good set.

Samus_aran115 wrote:Yeah, I know. My Mom took me 4 miles to buy Assault on Black reach, and she was like "What? Are you stupid? You're going to spend 80 dollars on that? That's dumb".

I still bought it, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat, it's a good set.

No, what is dumb is the fact that your mother thought the price/ value didn't make sense and yet still let you buy it. Here, ladies and gentlemen, is an perfect example in black and white of who is causing the price rises over the last 5-10 years. Children with no real "life costs" to pay who are frequently funded by parents who don't apply price/ value rules to their children that they would apply to their own purchases.

Maybe it was his own money?

Children can't learn financial responsibility unless they are allowed to make their own spending decisions.

Also, AoBR is good value even at the new higher price, if you and a friend buy two sets and swap the figures.

Kilkrazy wrote:Maybe it was his own money?

Children can't learn financial responsibility unless they are allowed to make their own spending decisions.

Also, AoBR is good value even at the new higher price, if you and a friend buy two sets and swap the figures.

Unless he his pay rent and contributing to the household cost I would debate your definition of "his money".

Yes, teching financial responsibility is important (I am an accountant after all) but allowing a purchase to go ahead that you think is wrong is not teaching financial responsibility - quite the opposite in reality. i do agree AOBR is good value - but obviously his parents didn't.

Also just because someone is a parent doesnt make them immune to personal bias. (This may not apply to the mother but I know it does to quite a few women).. the son may not find that 60$ pairs of shoes are a good investment either, yet the mother does..

A good value is simply a product which the person will USE and get their moneys worth out of it.. Some kids get an allowance and limited discretion on what to spend it on, which is perfectly acceptable because that teaches A ) limits and B ) consequences. If you spend your limited money on something you dont use, then you wont have money for something else you want

Perhaps the mother didnt agree but deferred to her sons judgement on what HE might enjoy. After all, if parents made all the choices then toy stores probabaly wont even exist :p

If I gave you some money would it be yours or mine?

People cannot learn responsibility for things they don't decide.

Parents can give advice about spending but the child has to make the decision.

Kirasu wrote:
A good value is simply a product which the person will USE and get their moneys worth out of it.. Some kids get an allowance and limited discretion on what to spend it on, which is perfectly acceptable because that teaches A ) limits and B ) consequences. If you spend your limited money on something you dont use, then you wont have money for something else you want

Damn straight. I grew up on 10 bucks a week, and I learned to appreciate every penny of it.

Killkrazy & Kirasu - you both missed my main point - who's money it is is the side issue. Prices are determined by a persons willingness to pay.

As adults we value things differently because we work for our money and then pay bills etc and create a disposable income (hopefully) which funds current wants (gaming) and future needs (safety fund/ 401k etc).

Most children have a high disposable income in relation to their actual income and are able to make choices differently. Parents more often or not fund when there is a difference between income and expenditure. So again - whose money is it that is actual being spent?
If you say the child's then I don't believe you are watching the mostly likely reality of what is happening at the till.

It is the difference between these two attitudes that is responsible for the price rises - and there was a perfect example of it in action. That was my main point

As a side issue, even at the value I think AOBR represents I would not let my child spend money on it because I believe the hobby is gotten out of whack value wise. When they reach 14 or 16 then they can start making some decisions on their own providing a) it isn't my money and b) I agree with it. That would be my job as parent. When they are 16 and work then they get a lot more freedom to decide providing a) they are saving money b) not doing anything illegal with it.

When I was a kid I used to get 50p pocket money per week which I used to spend on packs of Airfix HO/OO soldiers, this used to leave me 10p for sweets etc. When the figures went up to 45p a pack I stopped buying them as I thought that was to much for what they were (even after my dad offered to pay the extra each week). I am now doing the same re GW and PP. It would be nice to think others think and do likewise but its a totally different generation and attitude these days...

Mick