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Ok, I am fairly certain about starting a WoC army. My goal is to stay anti-mutant and go mainly human except for the awesome demon prince model which I will just pass off as a Tzeentch practical joke on the lowly human general. Anyway, I thought 2 battalion boxes and 2 boxes of marauder horsemen would be a good start. Here is the list I put together;

Demon Prince - MoT, level 2 sorcerer, bloodcurdling roar = 415
Exalted Hero - BSB, MoS, shield, chaos runesword = 195

14 warriors w/ shields - MoS, command = 264 (BSB goes here)
10 warriors w/ xhw - MoK = 190
30 marauders - LA, shields, MoS, command = 210
10 marauders - flails, MoK = 80
5 marauder horsemen - flails, MoK = 105
5 marauder horsemen - spears, spears (throwing), MoS = 85
5 warhounds = 30
5 warhounds = 30
5 warhounds = 30
5 warhounds = 30

5 chaos knights - command, MoS = 260
5 chaos knights - command, MoS = 260

Total = 2164 I think.

I should probably go with a naked DP and add a sorcerer, but not sure how to mesh it with the mental image in my head. I can see the mere mortals believing that the fickle gods would turn them into monsters, but not sure if they would believe that the gods would grant magic powers and flying discs to the them. I am picturing these barbarians being far removed from other civilizations. Anyway could use some advice for the DP.
Not sure if I should kit the horsemen differently or even make them into one unit. (probably not)
Same goes for the chaos knights, one unit? or switch one unit to a MoK. I am also trying to stay with IMHO the less chaotic gods K or S.
Also thinking about making one unit of hounds 10 strong.

Any help would be appreciated once again. Also any advice in adding to the army later would be cool.

Hmmm... I am being tempted by WoC as well. Finally got a game against them yesterday at the team tourney for the first time, and they seem so cool! They were teamed with Ogres, rather a nasty combo, imho!!

I'm also curious about the mauruder horsemen. Should they be run as a large unit to move fast and give you a possibility of breaking ranks? If they're fast cav, they'll get that free movement at the beginning of the game, which could really help get them into position to flank.

The thing I'm concerned with is that this list looks rather like a 7th ed list. Lots of small 5-strong units. Granted, chaos knights are crazy hard (found that out yesterday...) but still, they'll be going up against bigger/stronger/stubborn units getting full attacks back due to the "step up" rule. I'm not seeing how you're ever going to break ranks with this list?

But I love the feel, and will be watching this to pick up tips...

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. That is why I was wondering about combining the horsemen, a unit of hounds, and the knights into larger units. Maybe I will just make the horsemen with throwing axes and flails with the MoS.

My initial thinking was to have the hounds provide whatever cover they could the first turn while my blocks moved forward. The bigger blocks being the ones to absorb charges while the other smaller ones flank charged into the enemy. The horsemen would harass any ranged fire and the knights would smash whatever needed smashing.

I am continually tempted by a large marauder list without knights / warriors. I wonder if it would have any chance in 8th? I'll probably be picking up the WoC book right after the 8th ed rulebook, just to go through planning possible armies and the like. I did this with skaven and beastmen and decided not to start either... maybe the third time will be the charm

That is what I was originally thinking too. Just a massive horde of savage humanity charging across the battle field. Then I thought about the $ cost of that many marauders and figured that I liked the warrior and knight models anyway.

Haha, lol... yes, I'm just looking into that now.

There's a wonderful dragon ogre conversion on here somewhere (edit: found it!), using cold ones and black ork parts. So that'll save some money if I use them . But yes, it looks expensive!

So anyone who actually already plays WoC have some good advice for the list here? (where's Boss_Salvage at these days, anyway?)

Wow that is an awesome conversion, so much better than the GW ones. Actually makes me think about adding a shaggoth and dragon ogres later when the true taint of chaos steals the last of the barbarian horde's humanity.

RiTides wrote:(where's Boss_Salvage at these days, anyway?)

Busy running my skaven through 8th edition in preparation for Crossroads in September I've only just started to think about WoC under 8th, and where I want to take my boys. Frankly I'm a bit bummed that tizz warriors are apparently everybody's favorite now, yet I was taking them when they were the last kid picked in gym class Also disappointed that hellcannons are THE auto-pick, after a level 4 sorcerer lord. So trying to work out a replacement for big boomer.

Boogey, still love the theme and your dedication to it. Lemme see if I've got suggestions ...

boogeyman wrote:Demon Prince - MoT, level 2 sorcerer, bloodcurdling roar = 415
Exalted Hero - BSB, MoS, shield, chaos runesword = 195

14 warriors w/ shields - MoS, command = 264 (BSB goes here)
10 warriors w/ xhw - MoK = 190
30 marauders - LA, shields, MoS, command = 210
10 marauders - flails, MoK = 80
5 marauder horsemen - flails, MoK = 105
5 marauder horsemen - spears, spears (throwing), MoS = 85
5 warhounds = 30
5 warhounds = 30
5 warhounds = 30
5 warhounds = 30

5 chaos knights - command, MoS = 260
5 chaos knights - command, MoS = 260

Total = 2164 I think.

Prince > I would put the points into making him a level 3 at least, with the way that casting and dispelling works. Since he's by himself he'll often have the dice to cast more spells, and the +3 to cast/dispel is totally legit for the points. I might also consider fury on him, since it gives him a 2+ ward (!) vs magic damage! And is also cheap. Also, I guess he's your general? May the dice be with your ward saves!

BSB > Very fighty, which is nice. I'd rather have survival gear on him though, and let his natural (awesome) stats go to work. BSBs in 8th are Target #2 after your level 3/4 caster, as they impact the game in a HUGE way. As in, you get to reroll all and every LD check. Let that sink in if it hasn't already. As to what you give him, your call. If you want to get crazy with it: talisman of 4+ ward, biting blade, shield for an uber 3/4+ save and some decent magical attaks behind it. But there are lots of new common item options.

Shield Warriors > Should still work fine, might have to chew through steadfast opponents but it won't take long with so many attaks.

Ahw Warriors > You know, why not. I worry that they'll be shot to hell with only a 4+ save, and they bring no CR with them really, but they could certainly ruin somebody's day. I myself would always take a musician though. And in case you missed it, unit standards are worth only 25 pts to the enemy, so taking standards even in small units is less risky - though I think you're still fine here with just music (which allows quick reforms too!)

Turtle Marauders > Nice big block. May the outranking be with you!

Flail Marauders > Always classy frenzy bomb. I'd spring for 12 to go 6-wide, as well as a musician (4 pts!)

Glasscannon > Another classic. Curious how it'll work out in 8th, when the enemy is sure to outrank you, have a good chance of holding and deactivating your flails. A glasscannon afficionado in my group has been doing much more thinking about this unit than I, and is trying to figure out ranked flail cav to replace them ...

Spears & Spears > Mmm, my favorite combo. Again, who can say on usefulness, but the march + shoot is cool, and you will want multiple horsemen to get their scout move and then slam into war machines pronto. I would put musicians on both horsemen units, naturally.

Warhounds > I'm REALLY not sure how useful dogs are any more. Yes, they screen vs missile fire to some extent with that -1 to hit, but they no longer block LoS, nor are they able to divert with any regularity, nor are they really able to fight many things. I think 1-2 units have their suicide uses still - drawing fanatics, hitting shallow frenzied units in the flank and drawing them sideways - but I really think that horsemen are much better at the anti-machine duties that dogs are going to be put toward.

Knights > There is much debate around these parts as to what knights are good for, with steadfast infantry in large amounts. I think they're still maniacs, but you're going to need to plan on cutting the enemy down to size over a few rounds, instead of auto-routing or some nonsense. As usual though champs aren't really worth the 20 points, and I myself would consider going either 6-wide or investing in magic banners. Or both, though I think the magic standards may be out for your mundane barbarians.

So a few thoughts from me, with a handful of recommendations but little solid. You've got some points to play with yet, and I think a fighty exalted might be in order to add some hitting power, perhaps to knights or to the turtle marauders. Top tip: helm of many eyes + I7 on an exalted means he's rerolling his hits against many things. Finally finally finally, WoC gets to reroll some hits! And the BSB lets you reroll the stupidity

- Salvage

lol Looks like I am going back to the drawing board. I like the theme and advice, just not sure how to go about buying the necessary models. Not sure if 2 battalions and 2 marauder horsemen is the right way to go. Any advice on how I should go about collecting the army?

4pts a model for a marauder... with decent stat line... + mark... they going to be soo good in 8th! maybe a warshrine to back them up... OH MAN!... im finishing painting my 20 white primed marauders for 8th ..and a warshrine in progress..

I had similar list for 7th but for 8th i think it bigger unit size and less units on the board. For infantry that is. the 10 Man flail marauders are gone in 8th imho.

40 marauders-MoK (its like having an extra rank of attacks) MoS-immune to fear terror and panic test means you dont role at the beg of combat to see if you fail your Ld. If you keep your General or BsB near by you dont need this. MoN, -1 WS and -to hit, with how 8th looks with big blocks, a -1 WS might be a big difference wether 20 attacks hit or miss. now.. MoT... if it stacks with parry thats a 5+Ward save...Not bad for a 5 point model.

Marauder horsemen you need atleast 10 now. With how terror and fear changed MoS is really not needed b/c they are not going to be in combat for more than 2 turns tbh. I'd go for MoN, makes shooters -1 to hit and hitting crews with a -1 WS makes them wiff a lot.

Warriors.. im seriously thinking going MoT, Chaos armor 4+, shields 3+ Parry 6+ but Mot 5+ward.. thats a 3+/5+ on a core unit...That is survival. Which i've noticed in 8th combat is not resolved in the first charge. Looks like its about survivability now and not get the charge and clear their ranks for no attacks back.

I like my knights 10 man strong now. MoN with F. banner or MoT with ward banner. I also no longer spearhead them in my army. Getting charged by a 40 man mob... is not good.
Warhounds.. havent used them yet to tbh. Been playign small games and I rather have horsemen or more marauders.

just my 2cents on units

Wow, great tips! I just bought the army book today and am reading through it... will probably be posting up a list of my own in a day or two .

I am loving the marauder models, and warriors are still rock-hard... it's nice that so many things in the list seem to be viable now!

I agree about larger units being more of the norm... that's my feeling from reading the rules and what others have playtested, we'll see once the real games start, though!

I'm not so sure knights are very good this edition at all, as everything they fight is going to be stubborn and still getting all their attacks back. Sure, you can clear the front rank, and MOST things will be unable to effectively hit back well against knights, but it means even things like empire greatswords will be actually getting the chance to strike back.

That being said, your knights can now freely march in front of things like said greatswords and they're going to get to strike first if charged. Since chaos knights don't depend on the charge to get bonuses [no lances usually], they're just as effective taking as making. Winning is still winning even if the enemy is stubborn, and if an infantry unit is unsupported on the flanks then a stubborn 7 or 8 still has decent odds of running away.

Clearing the front rank means noting in 8th, all casualties are taken from the back, iirc., meaning you still have at least 2 ranks hitting back at you.

I'm torn on the knights... they can still wreck the house, so they must be useful in some scenarios, especially against smaller units that won't have as many ranks. And they'll be ripping up larger units so, even though they won't run, they'll run out of ranks pretty fast...

RiTides wrote:Hmmm... I am being tempted by WoC as well. Finally got a game against them yesterday at the team tourney for the first time, and they seem so cool! They were teamed with Ogres, rather a nasty combo, imho!!

I'm also curious about the mauruder horsemen. Should they be run as a large unit to move fast and give you a possibility of breaking ranks? If they're fast cav, they'll get that free movement at the beginning of the game, which could really help get them into position to flank.

The thing I'm concerned with is that this list looks rather like a 7th ed list. Lots of small 5-strong units. Granted, chaos knights are crazy hard (found that out yesterday...) but still, they'll be going up against bigger/stronger/stubborn units getting full attacks back due to the "step up" rule. I'm not seeing how you're ever going to break ranks with this list?

But I love the feel, and will be watching this to pick up tips...

well the knights have a 1+ save so i wouldn't be to worried about them striking back, and they are 8+ a turn so no need to worry about them losing.

Knights shouldn't be going head on with any large blocks in 8th. They should be going for their flanks. As far as I understand it, if you are attacking a flank only the models in base contact would be able to attack and the next row would not get the 1 attack in. The less saves you have to make the better. Adding MoK to them will definitely make it easier to break the large blocks with a flank charge.

Good point... I think they'll still be very useful! There has been a knee-jerk reaction against knights/monsters, but at the end of the day, straight up killing stuff wins out a lot of the time