Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Alright, anyone whom has seen the Blood Angel Codex has read about Mephiston, Lord of Cheese.....I mean Death. Now with concerns of said character I figured we could all compare notes and see how everyone deals with space vampire boy without ignoreing the rest of the army comming at you, something you would put in your normal 1850 list. Myself with guard I have a unit of plasma tank executioners, 1 round of shooting from those with some decent scatter should toast him nicely. Also Wraithcannons from a squad of ten wraithguard could insta kill him nicely.

Just shoot him with AP2 or better weapons. He has no invulnerable save and can't hide in a squad.

Really just treat him like any other Monstrous Creature. I guess you could think of him as a Flyrant of sorts.

AP2 or better....

Yeah ap 3 is useless, 2+ plus feel no pain, and throw in his high toughness most of your ap 3 weapons are useless. (FNP versus a Battle Cannon, christ thats cheesy)

He's also very small and can hide behind any tank that drives up which makes shooting him extra hard. I think CC is the best way to take him out. He is not immune to instant death afterall.

Try 3 plasma guns instead of 3 meltaguns in a chimera.

I havent had any problems yet against that dude
2 bladestorming avenger squads(doom and guide), done
or maybe one more pulse laser shot if he is still alive
I dont even bother using fire dragons on him

Whoops, forgot about that artificer armour.

doubled wrote:Alright, anyone whom has seen the Blood Angel Codex has read about Mephiston, Lord of Cheese.....I mean Death. Now with concerns of said character I figured we could all compare notes and see how everyone deals with space vampire boy without ignoreing the rest of the army comming at you, something you would put in your normal 1850 list. Myself with guard I have a unit of plasma tank executioners, 1 round of shooting from those with some decent scatter should toast him nicely. Also Wraithcannons from a squad of ten wraithguard could insta kill him nicely.

Everyone makes a big deal out of him and I see him in a lot of lists. Is he good? Damn right he's good. But does he belong in every list? Hell no. I won't run him all that often. But everyone just says "Oh I'll just shoot him" You make it sound so easy, but anyone in the right mind isn't going to let it be that easy. He is a small unit and can easily hide. I can put him behind tanks, I can put units in front of him, hell, I can even surround him with a unit of troops if I want just so long as I don't get too close to them since he cannot be part of the unit. Any skilled player isn't going to let him die right away.

doubled wrote:Yeah ap 3 is useless, 2+ plus feel no pain, and throw in his high toughness most of your ap 3 weapons are useless. (FNP versus a Battle Cannon, christ thats cheesy)

Ge doesn't have FNP unless a priest is close enough to him. It's just 4+ in that case

DarthDiggler wrote:He's also very small and can hide behind any tank that drives up which makes shooting him extra hard. I think CC is the best way to take him out. He is not immune to instant death afterall.

You better attack him with a large unit. He's going to attack first at Str 10, re-roll hits and wounds, and has a force weapon on top of all that. He's a beast in CC and can take whole units out on his own. Oh yeah, and most normal units need 6's to wound him. Better bring your power weapons.

Why are IG players worried about Mephiston?
All Mephiston does is kill stuff in CC, and it's not like IG is going to win any fights against BA in CC.
Mephiston can hit a gaurdsman on 3+ and kill on a 2+, a regular assault marine can hit a guardsman on a 3+ wound on a 2+ and he might make a 5+ armor save, but Mephiston only has 6 attacks while the average assault marine squad will have 25 regular CC attacks and a power fist. Who is better at slaughtering guardsmen.
Mephiston can use a psyhic power to up his str to 10, but needs 6s to hit a vehicle that is moving fast while assault marines have 2 melta guns, 25 str 5 CC attacks, and a str9 power fist with half as many attacks as mephiston on the charge. Who is deadlier against vehicles?
A squad of assault marines with a power fist and 2 melta guns can do more damage to an IG army than Mephiston, so why not kill them 1st?
Ignore Mephiston with IG and kill off the priests 1st, and then the assault marines.

The only armies that should worry about Mephiston are armies with a supper killey CC unit that can't beat Mephiston in CC.

I can put him behind tanks, I can put units in front of him, hell, I can even surround him with a unit of troops if I want just so long as I don't get too close to them since he cannot be part of the unit.

You don't even have to stay away from him, he's not an independent character.

Ghazghskull > Mephiston

I have some feedback I would like to mention in regards to countering the lord of cheese. Try not to waste too many points trying to counter Mephiston. If you end up countering Mephiston with units dramatically costing more points than Mephiston or focus too much attention on him, than the BA player has succeeded in distracting you (which is dangerous in a jump pack/fast heavy army).

My number 1 suggestion for countering Mephiston would be psyching defence of all kinds. In terms of a strategy to use with Chaos, perhaps try catching him off guard with a 5 x Plasma/Melta infiltrating chosen squad (though it would probably be hard to pull off).

JourneyPsycheOut wrote:

I can put him behind tanks, I can put units in front of him, hell, I can even surround him with a unit of troops if I want just so long as I don't get too close to them since he cannot be part of the unit.

You don't even have to stay away from him, he's not an independent character.

He would have to keep the one inch away though, right?

Farseer with runes of warding works well for eldar. I'd assume anything that can make him suffer perils of the warp would work well. I went agaisnt a mephisto ina team game and he tried using powers and took two perils of the warp wounds. He didn't try using powers anymore.

You guys underestimate meph. As an ex-marine I say look at marneus. hes got a 4++, hes got rerolls to hit and to wound, hes 30 points less, hes got eternal warrior, and thats pretty much all hes got going for him. Mephiston for his points outdoes MC in every way, and has a JUMP PACK. without this jump pack mephiston is a meh, but hes absolutely insane with it and fleet. He chased down a vendetta of mine and destroyed it, He has killed Land raiders and command squads and everything and theres not much ive been able to do to stop him.
My only luck against him was in the wake of him killing 22 genestealers and and then assaulting my terminators with heavy flamer (wiping them). My sternguard with 2 combi plas, 1 plasma gun and 1 plasma pistol (intention of this squad is quite clear) ran up and unloaded on him, killed him in one turn. Now thats just a good situation.

You have to have some type of unit good at killing him, I cant see orks doing it, Or nids. Hes a real bheech.

Shovan wrote:

JourneyPsycheOut wrote:

I can put him behind tanks, I can put units in front of him, hell, I can even surround him with a unit of troops if I want just so long as I don't get too close to them since he cannot be part of the unit.

You don't even have to stay away from him, he's not an independent character.

He would have to keep the one inch away though, right?

not from your own troops. That only comes into effect when talking about enemy troops. If he was a IC then he'd have to stay 2" away from friendly troops unless he joined them. Since he's not an IC you could put him in the middle of 10 assault squad assuming you maintained unit coherency with them.

Mephiston's true strength is really to kill small units, dreadnaughts / vehicles and to give his opponent hestantcy from assaulting or moving any where close to him. He is more of a psychological weapon that can win games by the opponent worrying to much about him and not the rest of the army. Quite a few Mephiston players are guilty of also trying to kill more then he can handle such as a 10 man Tact Squad with a PF on the Sergeant, even if Mephiston wipes them out he will prob be down to 1 wound left. Mephiston works best with support in assault to help keep some attackers off him and give him cover saves and possibly FNP.

Mephistons biggest weakness is the lack of a invulnerable save and not being a IC. There is many things mention that can take out Mephiston. My best advice is take psychic defense if you have it and try to anticipate where and what he is going after and set him up for the counter attack forcing him into a large fight that will wear him down. Mephiston averages about 4 kills on the charge and 3-4 if charged or laters turns of CC of course invuln saves will lower this average. If he times his attack with CC support units is when he is the most dangerous but again quite a few people I have played against are reckless with him which usually leads to him killing far less then he is worth before he is taken down.

Jaon wrote:You guys underestimate meph. As an ex-marine I say look at marneus. hes got a 4++, hes got rerolls to hit and to wound, hes 30 points less, hes got eternal warrior, and thats pretty much all hes got going for him. Mephiston for his points outdoes MC in every way, and has a JUMP PACK. without this jump pack mephiston is a meh, but hes absolutely insane with it and fleet. He chased down a vendetta of mine and destroyed it, He has killed Land raiders and command squads and everything and theres not much ive been able to do to stop him.
My only luck against him was in the wake of him killing 22 genestealers and and then assaulting my terminators with heavy flamer (wiping them). My sternguard with 2 combi plas, 1 plasma gun and 1 plasma pistol (intention of this squad is quite clear) ran up and unloaded on him, killed him in one turn. Now thats just a good situation.

You have to have some type of unit good at killing him, I cant see orks doing it, Or nids. Hes a real bheech.

Lil old Gazzy will easily tear Meppy a new one. He also does alot more for his army than Meppy does.

For nids, see: Swarmlord.

Have a mix of both Plasma and Melta in each unit to give them more flexability while still remaining effective against him.


Also what about Doom?

Now that it grants a 4+ cover save (thanks FAQ) doom's effectiveness mirrors his 90-point cost a little better. I wouldn't rely on it for meph, though it would be funny to catch him out in the open and kill him with it.

Mephistons is a waste of points. Take a Libby with a storm shield and you'll get the same killing power but he'll be an IC and he can actually defend himself.

If He was immune to a Nid's lashwhip then I could see him as a monster killer but he sucks at this dispite his stat line which for me makes him a missed opportunity.

tetrisphreak wrote:Now that it grants a 4+ cover save (thanks FAQ) doom's effectiveness mirrors his 90-point cost a little better. I wouldn't rely on it for meph, though it would be funny to catch him out in the open and kill him with it.

Had no idea there was an FAQ for it, this is very good news
The Nid player I verse and I have just been using the INAT one I think, where I get a cover if I'm in a vehicle. Basically makes me glad I have Star Engines to relocate some of my army to the other side of the board while it's tarpitted by Guardians.

I lost Mephiston to a unit of ork boys...

Mephiston isnt worth his points, put a psychic hood near him and suddenly hes not able to do much of anything. Much less prevent his plasma death without an invul.

I play with him ALL the time.

The main problem I have is that other monstrous creatures, like Trygons and Daemon Princes, don't give him an armor save in CC. That's a real downer if you don't crack them open in one shot.

Nothing else has been a real problem. Even Runes of Warding aren't that bad. The test just becomes an actual test instead of an almost sure thing.

But perrils will just wound you if you fail...

Ok but what if your a Necron player? Is there something they can do to win against Mephiston? I mean we don't have an AP1 or AP2 weapsons except for the Monolith and Heavy Destroyers which I don't use since they are easy to kill off. In a 1750 point game I run a Destroyer Lord, 20 Warriors, 10 Immortals, 8 Destroyers, 5-8 scarabs, Monolith and Deceiver . So as you can see I can't hit past his 2+ along with FNP.

I dont get why everyone is so freaked out about Mepheston...

Every game against him I have played so far, I just pop whatever he is hiding behind with a meltagun or lascannon and then rapid fire 3-5 plasma guns into him, however many I need. Drops him every time, and then my opponent is pretty much playing ~300 points under me, because Mepheston acomplished nothing.

Necrons could try throwing a Ctan into him, I dont know really, Necrons have had a hard time wounding MC's for awhile now.