Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Just finished reading The Taros Campaign. The Imperium lost, which surprised me because honestly that usually doesn't happen. I mean they didn't just lose they totally got their buts kicked.

I'm not familiar with it but yeah it happens as in the butt kicking variety which is a shame since the guard are nice people deep down i suspect
who was it against?
was it Tau by any chance?
if it was then i'm not suprised guard have a hard time against them in the fluff

It was the Tau, supported by Human traitors, but mostly it was the Tau who did the butt-kicking.

They even lost a titan! Apparently xeno-tech-heresy ability to invent things is a good thing after all.

Yeah i'm not suprised at that.
Looking at the history of the Imperium they seem to go in and out of bad times.
They will be losing then everyone gets angry and religious and kicks everyone back a couple of thousand light years but then they have expended most of their troops and navies and exhausted all of the PDF and SDF in further back systems at which point they start to be driven back.
Losing a titan is pretty big but the Ad-mech lead snatch and grab missions to rescue them and rebuild them so not massively big.
Mostly what Tau will be beaten by is the whole diplomacy thing, the big I is a whole lot sneakier than the Tau are and so whenever Tau try to be diplomatic they usually lose after.
Overall yeah the Imperium got it's arse kicked and... i've got nothing, it's only 1 planet and there are plenty more of those i suppose

Actually its the Tau who are the sneakiest of all. They have the water caste and that's all they do.

This one was a little different. Imperium loses worlds all the time but usually everyone on the planet gets killed or eaten. Although, this planet was conquered by an alien power the planet remains 99% human.

That's of course happens too but it was interesting seeing it in depth.

WHo is it the Tau beat? Is this where the Ellysians get mauled?

In Imperial Armour books, Imperial forces always lose, most of all the Elysian Drop troops, FW's own IG regiment

Dam space commies :(

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Actually its the Tau who are the sneakiest of all. They have the water caste and that's all they do.

This one was a little different. Imperium loses worlds all the time but usually everyone on the planet gets killed or eaten. Although, this planet was conquered by an alien power the planet remains 99% human.

That's of course happens too but it was interesting seeing it in depth.

When i said sneaky i meant more willing to betray/manipulate to their own ends kind of thing.

... in contrast to an honest, straightforward genocide, as the Imperium would do it, you mean

Kroothawk wrote:... in contrast to an honest, straightforward genocide, as the Imperium would do it, you mean

At least they don't lie that "It's for the Greater Good" kind of thing

Of course if you assume that is a lie then it would seem dishonest.

Kroothawk wrote:... in contrast to an honest, straightforward genocide, as the Imperium would do it, you mean

I mean at a diplomatic meeting they will be moving troops about and using diplomacy to pretend they aren't attacking but yeah they're more likley to commit genocide but i don't think they care.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Just finished reading The Taros Campaign. The Imperium lost, which surprised me because honestly that usually doesn't happen. I mean they didn't just lose they totally got their buts kicked.

It happens a lot. I'm unsure of why you're surprised.

The Imperium may be big, but it isn't unbeatable in planetary battles, and considering that they are fighting on hundreds of fronts against a multitude of foes...

purplefood wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:... in contrast to an honest, straightforward genocide, as the Imperium would do it, you mean

I mean at a diplomatic meeting they will be moving troops about and using diplomacy to pretend they aren't attacking but yeah they're more likley to commit genocide but i don't think they care.

The Tau are just very hard to lock down and keep track of during a diplomatic meet. They are extremely intelligent and eloquent, so the Imperials usually cant keep up.
And they are no more likely to commit Genocide than the Imperium. However, at least they offer those they conquer the option to join them, which the Imperium does not.

Generalstoner wrote:WHo is it the Tau beat? Is this where the Ellysians get mauled?

Yes, the Elysians get shredded!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Che-Vito wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Just finished reading The Taros Campaign. The Imperium lost, which surprised me because honestly that usually doesn't happen. I mean they didn't just lose they totally got their buts kicked.

It happens a lot. I'm unsure of why you're surprised.

The Imperium may be big, but it isn't unbeatable in planetary battles, and considering that they are fighting on hundreds of fronts against a multitude of foes...

I mean book-wise. If you pick up a BL book odds are the Imperium is going to win in the end somehow despite the claims of grimness and darkness.

Wyvern wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:... in contrast to an honest, straightforward genocide, as the Imperium would do it, you mean

I mean at a diplomatic meeting they will be moving troops about and using diplomacy to pretend they aren't attacking but yeah they're more likley to commit genocide but i don't think they care.

The Tau are just very hard to lock down and keep track of during a diplomatic meet. They are extremely intelligent and eloquent, so the Imperials usually cant keep up.
And they are no more likely to commit Genocide than the Imperium. However, at least they offer those they conquer the option to join them, which the Imperium does not.

Surely you mean the opposite.

IoM SOP is to kill all non-humans and any humans who can't be enslaved.

This is very far from the Tau approach.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Wyvern wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:... in contrast to an honest, straightforward genocide, as the Imperium would do it, you mean

I mean at a diplomatic meeting they will be moving troops about and using diplomacy to pretend they aren't attacking but yeah they're more likley to commit genocide but i don't think they care.

The Tau are just very hard to lock down and keep track of during a diplomatic meet. They are extremely intelligent and eloquent, so the Imperials usually cant keep up.
And they are no more likely to commit Genocide than the Imperium. However, at least they offer those they conquer the option to join them, which the Imperium does not.

Surely you mean the opposite.

IoM SOP is to kill all non-humans and any humans who can't be enslaved.

This is very far from the Tau approach.

Mostly except some of the fluff i have read indicates the Imperium picks and chooses in practice who it campaigns against, the Tau for instance are willing to negotiate so do that for a bit while you finish a few fights in other sectors and then fight the Tau and lose in most cases unless you're Sicarius who seems to be magic(i also hate him).

I don't understand what you are saying.

Kilkrazy wrote:I don't understand what you are saying.

Sorry i'm not making myself clear.
What i mean is the Imperium is very religious but in practice it's tied up with the paperwork division which means it they can be reasonable if they have the right commander e.g. Mr. Calgar will ally with Tau against Necrons but will still fight Tau on other occasions.
But when Tau begin to encroach on Imperial territory they fight but preluding that is usuallly negotiations with the Imperial authorities for trading and such which lets them establish settlements and such but the Imperium plays the same game while letting Tau get a bit of their territory they stall and bluff the Tau as they move troops into postion for defense or attack(which they have mixed results with).
This is my interpretation anyway i'm sure you have a different one but that's fine with me.

I partly agree with your analysis though I disagree about the fine details.

In my view, some Imperials will cooperate with the Tau for the greater good on a short term basis, however the official Imperial policy is to destroy all non-humans, renegades and dissidents.

The Tau policy is to co-operate for the greater good with anyone on a long term basis, however the basic policy is to suppress elements who will not integrate into the Federation.

Oh yeah the official stance is that but it's situational in the most part and as you said some will ally for short term goals.
I'm not exactly familiar with Tau modus operandi so i'll take your word for it.
Glad to have that sorted.

I think what Killrazy is getting at is that if both races have a General that does not have guidance from higher authorites the Imperial one will kill all Sentient life (which is standard operating procedure) while the Tau one will not.

It's more like the Imperial general will kill all Sentient life if he does have guidance from higher authority.

If he is operating on his own authority he is much more likely to co-operate.

E.g. Marneus Calgar.

Kilkrazy wrote:It's more like the Imperial general will kill all Sentient life if he does have guidance from higher authority.

If he is operating on his own authority he is much more likely to co-operate.

E.g. Marneus Calgar.

Except for that guy, pretty sure they would kill all sentient life.

A lot of space marine commanders are a bit more flexible than the IG etc commanders because they are allowed to be

Kilkrazy wrote:
E.g. Marneus Calgar.

Pretty sure this was on a short term basis.

purplefood wrote:A lot of space marine commanders are a bit more flexible than the IG etc commanders because they are allowed to be

But some are even more Xenocidal like the Black Templars.

You know as i was writing this i thought some one may mention them and i completly agree with you they are xenocidal guano-crazy marines.

purplefood wrote:You know as i was writing this i thought some one may mention them and i completly agree with you they are xenocidal guano-crazy marines.

You can bet your bottom dollar, or quid! that GW could write something that has Templar's allying with a xenos or suspect race. A few years down the line it'll be BT with traitors against resurgent Demiurg (for a short period just to destroy a bigger menace)...