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I know he has to many (complex weapons) but if he always has his gauntlets on how does he get (init) attk with sword ? his rules seem a bit confusing to me mabye you all can clear up the best way to rule them and each way you can and with what weapons give what attacks and CC attacks. etc..

On pg 84 and pg 129 in Space Marine Codex 5th editon.

It shows he has..

Wargear:
• Power armour
• Power sword
• Iron Halo
• Gauntlets of Ultramar

I have seen on another site go 3 pages and they could not get it right so I brought it to the people who know the most. I did search his name on here but to many listing came up and none with the info i was looking for if this has been addressed before I am sorry I could not find it.

I'll tackle these as best I can.

Sorgon wrote:I know he has to many (complex weapons) but if he always has his gauntlets on how does he get (init) attk with sword ? his rules seem a bit confusing to me mabye you all can clear up the best way to use him and each way you can and with what weapons give what attacks and CC attacks.

If you look in the BRB under the rules for special CCW's (sorry don't have it with me to give a page number), you'll see that when you have two special CCW's you can choose which one to use. Yes, he always has a powerfist, but if you instead choose to use the power sword, he will strike at Init with power weapon attacks (but not double S because that would be the powerfist) with the number of attacks listed on his profile.

Now, here's where things get tricky. There are two different schools of thougt to the rest of your question. If he chooses to use the Gauntlets of Ultramar, one camp will say that since they are a "matched pair" that he benefits from +1 A. The other camp says that doesn't matter because he had to choose between the power sword and the Gauntlets of Ultramar, thus making it impossible for him to get +1 A. Either way, if you choose to use the Gauntlets of Ultramar, you will strike at Init 1 and count as using a powerfist.

As far as which way is the best to use him, that is best for the tactics section.

Page 42, "Two different Special weapons" explains it.

He can chose to use either his Power Fist or Power Sword when he attacks, so either he hits at I5 or I1.

Also, if he attacks with the Power Sword, he does not gain the extra attack due to having two close combat weapons, but he gains it when attacking with the Power Fists.

I may be wrong, but that's how I see it.

There is a very long thread here on dakka about calgar as well...we may have gone longer than 3 pages on it since it veered off onto related topics.



Sliggoth

Your looking at this from a fluff point of view it seems, which is understandable. From a fluffy stand point in a couple Ultramarine books and especially in the new book "Chapter's Due" has Calgar as almost a main character and it talks about how dexterous he is with his gauntlets, picking up small objects and such when the energy field is off mind you.

I was not trying to go the fluff route sorry if it seemed that way was just going for the ruling of having the wepons and init . Thanks for everyones input : ) and sorry about not finding the correct thread .

P42
Two different special weapons
When it is their turn to attack, these models must
choose which weapon to use that turn, but they never
get the bonus attack for using two weapons (such is
the penalty for wielding too many complex weapons!).

It's fairly clear how it would appear to work, despite his nifty looking setup. That or the game just breaks because 3 weapons are involved.

Of course, I assume that was probably not the intention and I'm sure Tri or someone will pop in with pages of arguments about how you aren't bound by the above restriction because the raw gets weird when more than 2 weapons are involved (if you choose to wield the two powerfists then you don't have to chose not to use the sword, or some such). But it's all been hashed out repeatedly by both sides at great length.

If i use a power fist and a wolf claw on a wolf lord for instance do i get s8 and get to reroll to hits but strike at I1
1

ChocolateGork wrote:If i use a power fist and a wolf claw on a wolf lord for instance do i get s8 and get to reroll to hits but strike at I1
1

gorkamorka wrote:
P42
Two different special weapons
When it is their turn to attack, these models must
choose which weapon to use that turn,

For the LOVE OF GOD LOCK THIS THREAD ...
Please see http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/284802.page or http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/90/240925.page
... If you are fighting with more then 2 close combat weapons the game has broken ...

>you can only fight with two CCW at one time: You must pick Two weapons before you even look at that chart.
>You then see what bonus/penalty those two weapons will give you.

... so fighting with "Two different special weapons" will only be in effect if you have chosen to fight with two different special weapons ... it is not enough just to have them.

ChocolateGork wrote:If i use a power fist and a wolf claw on a wolf lord for instance do i get s8 and get to reroll to hits but strike at I1
1

No. Unless you're a Tyranid (which have biomorphs, not weapons) you never get to stack the bonuses of your special CCWs. EVER. So in your instance, you may choose to strike at initiative and reroll hits OR wounds (wolf claw), or strike at I1 and have double strength (fist).

I thought the rules said a character equipped with a power fist attacked at I1.

I don't have the chapter and verse to hand though.

Kilkrazy wrote:I thought the rules said a character equipped with a power fist attacked at I1.

I don't have the chapter and verse to hand though.

The nearest I could find was:

BRB, pg. 42 wrote:Power fists, however, are difficult and cumbersome to use, so attacks with a power fist are always delivered at Initiative 1.

(emphasis mine)

So, merely having a power fist doesn't reduce your I to 1 when you attack, but attacking with the power fist does. Usually this doesn't matter as most models with a power fist only have that as the option.

Yes, I must be confusing it with Crab Claws, which reduce all your attacks to I1.

Kilkrazy wrote:Yes, I must be confusing it with Crab Claws, which reduce all your attacks to I1.

Making LBR useless in this case >.< ....

I did not mean to cause a tif with anyone and Thanks for the info for Calgar.
I am sorry I did not find the thread before, I stated that in the first Post I made.

Tri wrote:>you can only fight with two CCW at one time: You must pick Two weapons before you even look at that chart.
>You then see what bonus/penalty those two weapons will give you.

The rules don't actually say this, and infact, the section titled "Fighting with two single-handed weapons" discusses the fact that "some units are equipped with two single-handed weapons they can use in close combat" so is only dealing with being equipped with them, not actively selecting to use them.

... so fighting with "Two different special weapons" will only be in effect if you have chosen to fight with two different special weapons ... it is not enough just to have them.

so fighting with "Two different special weapons" will be in effect if models are "equipped with two single-single haded weapons they can use in close combat where both weapons are special weapons of different types"

Drunkspleen wrote:

Tri wrote:>you can only fight with two CCW at one time: You must pick Two weapons before you even look at that chart.
>You then see what bonus/penalty those two weapons will give you.

The rules don't actually say this, and infact, the section titled "Fighting with two single-handed weapons" discusses the fact that "some units are equipped with two single-handed weapons they can use in close combat" so is only dealing with being equipped with them, not actively selecting to use them.

... so fighting with "Two different special weapons" will only be in effect if you have chosen to fight with two different special weapons ... it is not enough just to have them.

so fighting with "Two different special weapons" will be in effect if models are "equipped with two single-single haded weapons they can use in close combat where both weapons are special weapons of different types"

You have to pick two weapons to fight with the rule is "Fighting with two single-handed weapons". If you don't pick then a model with two normal close sombat weapons and a matched pair of special close combat weapons would get: +1A for 2NCCW, +1A for SCCW&NCCW and +1A for 2 same SCCW.

The only way the rule works if you ...
A)"Fight with Two single handed weapons" by selecting 2 of those you have.
B)"...with the rules given below for the different possible combinations"