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So fumbling through an old Chaos codex today I realized how drastic some of the changes are from the previous codex to the current one.

Yes there's a lot of things such as no more daemonic gifts and the changing of the vehicle upgrades...

But the one that got me was that there's no longer a clash between Marks of Chaos.

I think it's a pretty big deal that you can field troops dedicated to Khorne, Nurgle, Tzeentch, and Slaanesh all at the same time.

I only bring this up because do you think GW would have the nerve to change it back to Chaos divided some day?

You know, after you've built up an entire army of different marks? That would be the worst thing ever imo.

Post your thoughts, I'm sort of scared about deciding which models get what marks now...

soapbox alert!!!!!!!!!!!!

There was talk of a legions codex for chaos , it would be cool to get back to iron warriors , thousand sons , emperors children and death guard

My chaos army was packed in a case in disgust when the new codex was realised , chaos got proper boned !!!!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

phew
sorry i feel better now

Yeah I can't say I feel your pain because I played SM when the 4th edition rulebook was out, but I would be PISSED if that happened to me lol

I think making legion codices like the SM's have (Dark Angels, Blood Angels, etc) would be a smart choice for people like you, since you'd be able to field them again.

Buuuuuuut I think if that does happen regular armies should be able to keep the basic warriors, like Plague Marines and Berzerkers.

And also keep the Chaos Undivided rule, I have a lot of Khorne/Nurgle/Tzeentch units in my army!

Dess
Id rank the cult troops best to worst: plague marines, khorne berserkers, noise marines, thousand sons. plague marines kind of have a history of being strong so if your trying to decide which god to go with and you just want play strength they are where its at.

I dont think they'll split up the marks in the future, because of the demons codex. It would be like ok you can play any one of these 4 armies and each army has about 6 or 7 units to choose from. seems like it would be a tough sell. and if the demons can work together then the natural question is why cant marines?

AF

Yeah I really like my Plague Marines and Berserkers, but I don't want to make an entire army of just them...

And you make a good point about the Daemon codex, they'd just be repeating that stupid mistake if they divided them up again.

I'd support the idea of individual codices for specific legions though, that would be kinda cool and bring back some old players

The marks dont work !!!!!!

Nurgle -- only gets feel no pain for basic troops

Slaanesh -- only basic troops can take sonic weapons

Tzeentch -- only basic troops need a sorcerer to function

etc etc etc

Why can a basic foot soldier take a sonic weapon and a lord not

The animosity between the chaos gods was cool and it fitted the nature of the chaos gods down to a T -- so why dump it ( other than the fact you can sell more stuff ) ( oops did i say that out loud !!!)

rant over





Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and dont even mention marks for vehicles and dreadnoughts

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Yes while that does suck horribly, I'd assume that it would all be fixed if they released these codices you mentioned.

Back during 4th edition I played Raven Guard, so I had no vehicles and Shrike's Wing.

5th edition comes out and they can use vehicles, but lose all their chapter traits and I wasted my money on the now non-existent Shrike's Wing. Nice

Yeah when the current chaos codex came out it was a very very dark day for 40k. Going from something so rich and fluffly and flavor full as that to what we have now? It was a pretty solid slap in the face.

TheOniTsuki wrote:Yeah when the current chaos codex came out it was a very very dark day for 40k. Going from something so rich and fluffly and flavor full as that to what we have now? It was a pretty solid slap in the face.

QFT

darkangels_rule wrote:
There was talk of a legions codex for chaos , it would be cool to get back to iron warriors , thousand sons , emperors children and death guard

I strongly believe if all the chaos legions can use one book, all the Loyalist chapters can use one book.

Also, as to the original post all the chaos gods are now the "Really super best-friends", my best guess as to why is the release of chaos daemons, it'd be hard to play a force of just one god beside maybe nurgle.

Just imagine a world were every other dex WASNT a SM dex. imagine...everyone would almost always have an up to date codex hardly anyone would ever get left behinde...but.. only in a perfect would.

TheOniTsuki wrote:Just imagine a world were every other dex WASNT a SM dex. imagine...everyone would almost always have an up to date codex hardly anyone would ever get left behinde...but.. only in a perfect would.

Agreed. If the SM's have FIVE codices then why can't any other army have more than one?

And I'm not sure the Chaos Daemons counts as a Chaos codex, I'd much rather see a World Eaters or Death Guard codex imo

The previous CSM codex, edition 3.5, was one of the best codices ever,
while the current one is more like a joke.
Its good for newbies but not for veterans.
Nevertheless, I still play my EC army but now a bit different as before.

Dess

yeah id like that. i imagine they'll do something like chapter tactics and special characters for the next edition. it seems to be working with space marines and at this point, honestly, i think if they were going to revisit chaos its more likely theyd just rewrite the whole thing than make a special codex for some of the variant legions. but yeah it was pretty twisted how they told everyone ok your iron warriors arent iron warriors anymore theyre just metalic looking guys and your alpha legion theyre just blue marines. messed up.

and another thing thats completely stupid about this edition of the codex (everyone say thanks gav) is how if you run a cult army the 1 guy in the army who cant take the special powers is the lord. lord with the mark of nurgle no feel no pain slaanesh lord no sonic weapons. give me a break. stupid.

AF

Yes another 'Oh god the Chaos Codex is garbage' rabble rabble rabble. Yes I'm against it as well, the lack of creativity and how things have lost touch in the army. Somethings I liked how they improved, cult troops for example yet the HQ's are pretty lacking, just mere cut/paste characters with a minor mark tweek. Yes it's a poor codex in terms of writing/army creativity but it's pretty damn powerful if you suck it up and take things that go against all fluff sense *see Lash Sorc paired up with Kharn in my lists* but power + sacrifice = satisfaction. I can't argue with the results, still putting the hurt on the 5th Ed big boys so I can't complain too much. Bland in flavor but still has an after-taste that puts down a buffalo.

As someone who just started up a World Eaters army, I would love to see the individual CSM legions get their own 'dexes. Even just a PDF special rules sheet would be nice. I want my World Eaters to be actual World Eaters and not just a mob of very angry men in red armor....wait a second....

Worst aspect of the whole thing - my army of khorne can't have a proper bloodthirster. A 'summoned greater daemon' is fine and good, but it lacks the crushing WS and general aura of pants-soiling terror which accompanies Mr Big Axe...

Well after much thought I think I'm just going to have a Death Guard army and a World Eaters army using the previous codex.

And to add extra fail to everything, I like how immense the Iron Warriors army is on the back cover... only to now be a regular army haha

wuestenfux wrote:The previous CSM codex, edition 3.5, was one of the best codices ever,
while the current one is more like a joke.
Its good for newbies but not for veterans.
Nevertheless, I still play my EC army but now a bit different as before.

If by best, you mean broken, then yes, without a doubt. As to the point about noobs/veterans, that's a bit one-sided. I have seen plenty of really competitive lists made from the newest incarnation of the CSM codex, all you need is to be clever with what you pick.

The trouble with the current codex is that there isnt much variety in the good and bad units - very few good units, obvious bad units. Overpriced landraiders, undercosted Oblits (still, despite the toughness and strength drop) and so on.

It invalidated entire armies when it was brought out (Emperors children) but at least stopped the army being "broken" - currently chaos is hovering middle of the road, power wise. the most efficient list has glaring problems, namely hordes.

The OP does raise a good (though very depressing) point that even if GW wanted to undo the deep harm that they've done to the traitor legions, they almost certainly wouldn't dare mess with the players currently fielding deeply unfluffy forces with Slaaneshi Daemon Princes inexplicably leading berzerkers and plague marines. The harm done by this abomination of a book might be irreversible. Chaos is broken and I don't know how they can fix it without doing things that GW just won't do.

I suppose there are some good things about the new codex though, such as Terminators not having to be "Chosen" Marines.

And the fact that Plague Marines actually have "Feel No Pain" now. Also, everyone can use Vindicators.

But KB, EC, TS, and Possessed definitely got the short end of the stick, I can't find any way to back those up haha

I really like the 4th edition Codex: Chaos Space Marines; it got me back into Warhammer 40k.

Temujin wrote:The OP does raise a good (though very depressing) point that even if GW wanted to undo the deep harm that they've done to the traitor legions, they almost certainly wouldn't dare mess with the players currently fielding deeply unfluffy forces with Slaaneshi Daemon Princes inexplicably leading berzerkers and plague marines. The harm done by this abomination of a book might be irreversible. Chaos is broken and I don't know how they can fix it without doing things that GW just won't do.

I don't think "fixing" the problem would be all that difficult.

Allow the current CSM codex to represent Renegades,Chaos undivided,Black Legion.
Release Codex "Legions" for those who wish to field "Legion based armies"

Players who have invested time & effort into building "multi-god,unit,Lash/plague/Oblit..etc" armies loose nothing.
Players who have invested time & effort into building themed/Mono-god/Legion armies-get their armies back.

WIN

FITZZ wrote:I don't think "fixing" the problem would be all that difficult.

Allow the current CSM codex to represent Renegades,Chaos undivided,Black Legion.
Release Codex "Legions" for those who wish to field "Legion based armies"

Players who have invested time & effort into building "multi-god,unit,Lash/plague/Oblit..etc" armies loose nothing.
Players who have invested time & effort into building themed/Mono-god/Legion armies-get their armies back.

WIN

That's exactly what I think. Let's see GW make that happen!

FITZZ wrote:

Temujin wrote:The OP does raise a good (though very depressing) point that even if GW wanted to undo the deep harm that they've done to the traitor legions, they almost certainly wouldn't dare mess with the players currently fielding deeply unfluffy forces with Slaaneshi Daemon Princes inexplicably leading berzerkers and plague marines. The harm done by this abomination of a book might be irreversible. Chaos is broken and I don't know how they can fix it without doing things that GW just won't do.

I don't think "fixing" the problem would be all that difficult.

Allow the current CSM codex to represent Renegades,Chaos undivided,Black Legion.
Release Codex "Legions" for those who wish to field "Legion based armies"

Players who have invested time & effort into building "multi-god,unit,Lash/plague/Oblit..etc" armies loose nothing.
Players who have invested time & effort into building themed/Mono-god/Legion armies-get their armies back.

WIN

I disagree. I think, in Legions only, they should go back to how the previous Codex was (4th, I beleive, though it might be what people are refering to as 3.5, I don't know.)

For those of you who don't know, it gave you the entire Chaos Space Marine army first, and then had like 1-3 pages going over special rules for each of the legions, like god specific vehicle upgrades, psychic powers, weaponry, and how to play a "Pure" legion list including what units can and cannot be taken. This would keep everything in one book. I'm not saying it has to be as convoluted as the previous codex, but it should be there.

I say they just release either a new codex with everything already in it PLUS the Books of Chaos/Legions integrated in it like it was in the last edition...

Or just release a codex specifically with all the books and legions to add to the current one. I still support the reason that if SM's get 5 codices then other armies should get more as well

Imagine last edition's Chaos Codex... in THIS edition.

It would be a Tier 1 Power House. No question.

2nd edition chaos: Crazy, so many random rules, well suited for 2e.
3rd edition chaos: Rules more normal, but pretty bland.
3.5 edition chaos: AWESOME, tons of options, variant army lists, special rules.
4th edition chaos: Remove all interesting options from 3.5 edition, go back to 3rd edition. A total pile of bland gak.

Also GW just said that they might make a Legions codex to keep chaos players placated. There's no way that a Legions book will come out any time in the next, I'd say as far as 5 years.

It might be that long before GW officially releases a Legion codex, but I read somewhere that some guy from Forgeworld is making some to use now