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Hypothetical situation, DP with daemonic gaze within assault range of SM squad in cover. Person playing CD has DP shoot at the SM squad in the shooting phase. Can the SM player choose to use the armor save, which he'll autofail, for any wounds he receives, thereby saving himself from a follow up charge from said DP? Or, does he have to try and pass the cover save, potentially leaving himself in range for the follow up assault?

Far as I know the rules says to use the best save you have. They don't say if it has to be the best by save number, average wounds saved or perhaps best by tactical consideration. Aye, it's probably cheating to use a save you can't roll if there's one that could succeed.

Seeing as you can't choose to just take the wound, I'd say you're forced to try and save it through the best method.

Spetulhu wrote:Far as I know the rules says to use the best save you have. They don't say if it has to be the best by save number, average wounds saved or perhaps best by tactical consideration. Aye, it's probably cheating to use a save you can't roll if there's one that could succeed.

that's going a bit too far out of the "common sense" borders, don't you think? but I see what you mean...

I think page 24 covers this scenario quite nicely. The last sentence of the first paragraph in the right column says you have the advantage of always using the best save.

Then in the scenario in the next paragraph, it describes a chaplain being hit by something that would negate his armour while standing in cover and having a forceshield so he uses the 3+ cover to have the best chance to save himself. There is no mention in this section of being allowed to make tactical choices to fail. Though a Space Marine can sometime choose to fail the corresponding morale checks based on its special rules.

Spetulhu wrote:Far as I know the rules says to use the best save you have.

They actually say that models with multiple saves have the advantage of being able to use the best of them. They stop short of saying that you actually have to do so, although that seems to be the generally accepted interpretation.

insaniak wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:Far as I know the rules says to use the best save you have.

They actually say that models with multiple saves have the advantage of being able to use the best of them. They stop short of saying that you actually have to do so, although that seems to be the generally accepted interpretation.

That's where I was coming from. The advantage of taking them doesn't say you have to, even if it's commonly accepted you do. And I'd rather have a couple necrons drop to shooting than let a DP or space wolf CC specialist charge them...

pg 24, 2nd column first paragraph, last sentence:
"... the model only ever gets to make one saving throw, but it has the advantage of always using the best available save."

The word that I think makes it not your choice is 'always' though if you didn't have to take the save on the best save possible, I'd love to take wounds on Lemartes using only his invuln save against shots so I can get the one wound off that makes him a monster...

Here is one way to look at it. If a squad has cover then they'll get a 3++ if they go to ground, but tactically it might not be the best choice. Lemartes is a good example of why you would want to fail a save.

G

This is definitely one of those times when the location of that 'always' make a difference. "always have the advantage of using the best save" would be different than "have the advantage of always using the best save", and the sentence in the book doesn't appear to be giving the model any choice--it's always the best save and that's "the advantage".

But, then again, this is GW's writing we're discussing.

For those keeping track, most recent three pager on the topic I could find:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/267969.page

or the older http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/229472.page.

One thing I note from a previous thread was an assertion that I made at the time that a model didn't HAVE TO take a save, but if it did it would have to be the best possible one available. In particular, on page 20 it says "If a model has a Sv value of 6 or better on its profile, it is allowed a further dice roll to see if the armour stops it being wounded." Page 20 then proceeds to name that die roll as the Armour Save and describe how it works.

If making the save is a disadvantage the best save isn't an advantage.

On balance I lean towards the interpretation that the model will make up its own mind and take the save most likely to deflect its wound, rather than sacrifice itself at the general's psionic instructions

Kilkrazy wrote:If making the save is a disadvantage the best save isn't an advantage.

On balance I lean towards the interpretation that the model will make up its own mind and take the save most likely to deflect its wound, rather than sacrifice itself at the general's psionic instructions

I concur. The models are supposed to be representing "real" people who don't want to die.

I like to think about it in fluff terms. The Marines would have no idea what the Prince is capable of, so they would attempt to survive regardless of what came next.

So no, you always have to use your best save. It represents the Marines trying as hard as possible to survive,by any means necessary.