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People at my FLGS constantly defend HB as their weapon of choice, as if it is as great as a plasma cannon with D6 no scattering shots, and I just never understood why. Sure they can kill a few guardsmen or Orks but anything that can take a HB either is overpriced or can take something so much better there is no reason to take the heavy bolter. So HB, Yay or nay?

This is for Space Marines!!! Sorry for not specifying earlier

Yay on Valkyries and Vendettas 10 pts for a pair?

Well, for SM @ least, the HB is overshadowed by the much more flexible missile launcher.

The frag missile will generally net more hits then the HB and the krak missile can hurt armor, which HB's can't.

And after thumbing through the Guard dex, I feel that for the same amount of points the AC is typically the better buy. One less shot yes, but the higher strength makes it able to wound infantry AND vehicles.

I've been using them in my PIS's lately, along with a grenade launcher. I find it makes a nice anti-light infantry package, especially with furfnsurf. I have plenty of high strength elsewhere in my list.

They are not very spectacular, that's why they're cheap. But for shooting light infantry, the one extra shot/HB/turn can really add up over the AC.

It really depends where the HB is being placed.
On a tac squad its pretty 'meh'. On a predator with an AC, they are amazingly good price.

Yeah I use it too kick orc's arse because most of my FLGS use orcs.

I said Yay worth the points; but then I play a Guard all infantry gunline list so...

Now for the same points I can get Autocannons which have longer range, and higher str but at the cost of a shot. But again I play guard I need that extra shot to hit infantry more reliably, and against Vehicles I have my 2, 2 Lascannon blob squads which can get "bring it down" ordered to them for twin linked goodness.

My Company Command Squad has an Autocannon in it but that is because it fires with BS 4, which is in effect that extra shot, and vs vehicles/MCs I can still order it to "bring it Down" bettering the chance to hit that much more.

My Marine List has No Heavy Bolters in it at all because the Marines have better Heavy weapon choices at the same Points value(free) in the Missile Launcher, and if I want an even better anti tank I take Lascannons, and if I want better anti Infantry I take Plasma Cannons.

Now My SW list does have a Pair of HB sponsons on my Dakka Pred but that is the only option it really has and iut wouldn't be a dakka pread without them.

LunaHound wrote:Yay on Valkyries and Vendettas 10 pts for a pair?

For the Valkyrie at least, wouldn't the rocket pods be more useful?

Sure it's more expensive, but you get 2 large blasts that can be fired as defensive weapons instead of firing either the multilaser or one of the HB's.

I play vanilla marines and the only place I like heavy bolters it on the side of my preds.

What army are we talking about? They have totally different roles, depending on the army.

labmouse42 wrote:It really depends where the HB is being placed.
On a tac squad its pretty 'meh'. On a predator with an AC, they are amazingly good price.

The way I see it a predator with an autocannon isnt very good in the first place. I can get so much more from a Devastator squad with 4 missile launchers than a pred with an autocannon and 2 HB, for just a little more points. (130 for Devs, 100 for Pred. Same Slot, and if the Devs are in cover they have more survivability too. I dont see this being good.)

(Im looking at the BA codex right now, idk if the cost for Devastators/Predator is Higher/Lower in the other codecies)

In the vanilla book missile launchers cost 5 points more and a squad of 4 costs 150.

Honestly though, I'd rather add lascannon sponsons instead of HB. It makes the pred into a fearsome anti-tank unit. No vehicle less then a Land Raider or Leman Russ will like 2 S7 and 2 S9 shots.

Mobility is the same since neither the HB nor the LC count as a defensive weapon.

zeekill wrote:

labmouse42 wrote:It really depends where the HB is being placed.
On a tac squad its pretty 'meh'. On a predator with an AC, they are amazingly good price.

The way I see it a predator with an autocannon isnt very good in the first place. I can get so much more from a Devastator squad with 4 missile launchers than a pred with an autocannon and 2 HB, for just a little more points. (130 for Devs, 100 for Pred. Same Slot, and if the Devs are in cover they have more survivability too. I dont see this being good.)

(Im looking at the BA codex right now, idk if the cost for Devastators/Predator is Higher/Lower in the other codecies)

We talking about the Baal Pred or the normal one?

On the Baal Pred I normally run one with TL AC and one with the Flamestorm Cannon. But I always, always, take HB as side sponsons. So I say they are worth the points.

I keep one in my tactical squad, then break it off into a combat squad. It's a really good deterrent against infantry...

xxBlazinGhostxx wrote:

LunaHound wrote:Yay on Valkyries and Vendettas 10 pts for a pair?

For the Valkyrie at least, wouldn't the rocket pods be more useful?

Sure it's more expensive, but you get 2 large blasts that can be fired as defensive weapons instead of firing either the multilaser or one of the HB's.

You can get both, the HB's are sponsons.

In the Vanilla dex a Pred with HB Sponsons and an autocannon is only 85 points. Cheap as well for the amount of antiinfantry it can spew out, but its really gotta sit still.

Land Speeder Typhoons with a chin HB are pretty great as well, but it's more because of the missiles than the HB, but the HB synergizes well with being able to move 12, fire a HB, and two frags.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:I keep one in my tactical squad, then break it off into a combat squad. It's a really good deterrent against infantry...

Really? Even against guardsmen it's only three shots, and if you have pretty good luck you'll get 2 wounds. That means you just killed 2 of the cheapest, most useless models in the game. That's not really a deterrent against anything. Space Marines laugh at heavy bolters.

I like 'em when they are twin linked on a razorback.

The heavy bolter does what it does relatively well, and nothing else.

Taking out light infantry out in the open at range? There is little better. Doing anything else? There's a better option.

In the end, I voted "meh".

My vote was Yay Amazing based upon the potential that the HB has.

HB is pretty much always a bad option for MEQ infantry to choose as their heavy weapon. Space Marines can never use HB to the full potential of the weapon.

Heavy Bolters are an IG weapon. Take the following list.

3 Valks/Vendettas=6HB
3 Heavy support artillery/manticores=3HB
3 PBS in Chimera=3HB
8 more Chimera for troops/HQ=8HB

That's 20 HB
20HB=60 shots=30 hits=20 wounds on MEQ=6.666 dead MEQ per turn from nothing but the HB. Some shots will be lost as say Vendettas shoot lascannons at vehicles. Every 3rd HB will drop a MEQ, and against light infantry such as orks every HB will drop an ork.

The massive quantity of HB in and IG army can be rather staggering.

Their decent if used against the right list and army.

Nids, IG and Orks primarly due to their low armor save.

schadenfreude wrote:My vote was Yay Amazing based upon the potential that the HB has.

HB is pretty much always a bad option for MEQ infantry to choose as their heavy weapon. Space Marines can never use HB to the full potential of the weapon.

Heavy Bolters are an IG weapon. Take the following list.

3 Valks/Vendettas=6HB
3 Heavy support artillery/manticores=3HB
3 PBS in Chimera=3HB
8 more Chimera for troops/HQ=8HB

That's 20 HB
20HB=60 shots=30 hits=20 wounds on MEQ=6.666 dead MEQ per turn from nothing but the HB. Some shots will be lost as say Vendettas shoot lascannons at vehicles. Every 3rd HB will drop a MEQ, and against light infantry such as orks every HB will drop an ork.

The massive quantity of HB in and IG army can be rather staggering.

Or, you can take 2 Medusas or something and kill a whole 10 man MEQ squad every turn.

On Vedettas HB are useless as they are meant to shoot at Tanks and MC's
If you are taking Artillery take it for the artillery, there is no point to have a heavy bolter on it. Put a heavy flamer on it to completely obliterate anything that ever gets close.
Chimeras should never take HB, they should always take ML/HF. a ML gets the same 3 shots at S6, making it barely abke to Penetrate Rhinos. The HF owns everything that gets close to you.
In 40k AP4 means almost nothing, as the two armies that mainly use 4+ Saves are Eldar and Tau, both of which are already too easy to beat with Marines. (Depending on how good the Eldar player is he could massacre the SM player but a SM list with enough anti tank should be able to win)

I put meh, indifferent.

It depends on the unit, really.

things heavy bolters work well with:

SM attack bikes
SM land speeders (typhoon, or dual heavy bolter)
SM predators w/ autocannon turrets
SM razorbacks (5 man tac squad in razor is useful to hold objectives and not attract much return fire)
SM Land Raiders (hell, its a base weapon, im not complaining)

and thats pretty much it. They are horrible on devastators, tac squads, and sternguard, because those squads already have bolters, which can do anything a heavy bolter can do, cheaper.

Honersstodnt wrote:I put meh, indifferent.

It depends on the unit, really.

things heavy bolters work well with:

SM attack bikes
SM land speeders (typhoon, or dual heavy bolter)
SM predators w/ autocannon turrets
SM razorbacks (5 man tac squad in razor is useful to hold objectives and not attract much return fire)
SM Land Raiders (hell, its a base weapon, im not complaining)

and thats pretty much it. They are horrible on devastators, tac squads, and sternguard, because those squads already have bolters, which can do anything a heavy bolter can do, cheaper.

Agreed!

Dual heavy bolters on Land speeders for 60 pts are killer. It gives you good range and lots of shots. Yes the missle launchers are good but if you are shooting at smaller sqauds that are spaced out the HB will be more effective than the small template.

Twin HB's on a razorback also do very well. They are efficient for their points. They kill troops and can take out light vehicles (ork trukks and DE raiders)

exactly, i've often considered using a squad of 3x dual heavy bolter speeders in place of a squadron of 2 typhoons, because the 18 heavy bolter shots it puts out would be murder to infantry. However, the limitation of only being able to move 6" and fire, along with the loss of the ability to blow holes in vehicles with typhoon launchers, kinda keeps me from going that route.

Heavy Bolters to me are one of those things that need to be used in bunches. One is a little underpowered in a Tac Squad, but put 4 of them into a Dev squad and it can lay down some serious heat, even against a marines army. Does it strike as much fear into someone as say 4 Plasma Cannons, of course not, but it is still a wicked force.

I am all for HB's on Land Speeders but only on Predators if they are Destructors and not annihilators.

@ Honersstodnt

Try taking 1 or 2 speeders with the dual HB. Take the other speeders with Typhoons. This gives you the best of both worlds. Don't feel to bad about moving 12 and only shooting one HB if you have to, the extra HB is only 10pts - its not a big waste if you can't shoot it. Think of it as a bonus if your opponent allows you to remain static and shoot.


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@ Honersstodnt

Try taking 1 or 2 speeders with the dual HB. Take the other speeders with Typhoons. This gives you the best of both worlds. Don't feel to bad about moving 12 and only shooting one HB if you have to, the extra HB is only 10pts - its not a big waste if you can't shoot it. Think of it as a bonus if your opponent allows you to remain static and shoot.

one thing I have been considering is to take squadrons of 3... 2 typhoons and 1 dual heavy bolter speeder. I generally target things with av11 or lower (heavier armor is left to meltas, or hit on weaker side armor), so the dual heavy bolter speeder would be able to glance it up... also, when taking fire, i'd use it as a wounds bitch. First one to die is the heavy bolter speeder