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I was just wondering something about the 'original space marines' or the terran marines. Would these marines have the same genetic problems from their gene seed that the newly recruited marines would have? or would these things not have developed yet. For instance would a terran marine from the space wolves legion have overgrown canines?

I mainly want to know this because I am building some fluff for a diy chapter.

...hmmm good question. They should, as they were made of their Primarch's DNA. Indeed some were even more problemed as the reintroduction of The Primacrh seem to stabilize many Legions.

I guess a better question is which genetic flaws are caused by dabasement of the geneseed, and which ones are just there.

For instance the black rage affacted the blood angels after sanguinias died, but had nothing to do with their gene seed becoming corrupted over time, any terran marines could be affected by this potentially.( if this is wrong feel free to correct me as my BA fluff is a little rusty ). On the other hand the raven guard suffer from their gene seed becoming worse over time, Suffering from malfunctioning implants. The original terran marines in the raven guard legion would have had none of these problems.

I also understand that any real data on this is probably non existant as I dont think there are any terran marines left.

The Black Rage, I think, was caused by a daemonic curse.

Melissia wrote:The Black Rage, I think, was caused by a daemonic curse.

I always thought it had something to do with their primarchs death, maybe I'm thinking of old fluff.

Maybe. I recall something about a daemon cursing and laughing at Blood Angels when Sanguinius died.

Currently, Black Rage is a combination of deteriorating Gene Seed (It's activated by injecting the blood of Sanguinary Priests, who basically have the Blood of Sanguinius running through their veins) and the psychic rent on their memory due to the death of their Primarch. Basically, they have the memories of Sanguinius buried deep in their subconscious, and on the eve of battle, they begin to rise to the surface, if they succumb, they enter the Black Rage, and believe they are Sanguinius fighting Horus, and become Death Company. Red Thirst is deteriorating Gene Seed.
So, imperfect replication of DNA in the blood of Sanguinary Priests lead to the Red Thirst (Heightened aggression, thirst for blood, rage) and psychic scarring from death of Sanguinius leads to Black Rage (Believing they are Sanguinius fighting Horus). Mildly contradictory, because Mephiston "Cast out" the Black Rage (Realized that he wasn't Sanguinius?) and Lemartes is coherent and able to converse, while still suffering. So. Um, yeah.

Terran BA would not suffer from Red Thirst, but would be vulnerable to Black Rage.

EDIT

As Kanluwen said, it can refer to a few things.

If you mean, Marines made after Primarchs went missing, no defects, but I think their gene seed wouldn't have truly been activated (I recall him requiring the Primarchs to "activate" the geneseed, but not to produce it)

Well, either way it was an outside force "tainting" the gene seed, and not the ravages of time showing effects on the genetic legacy of the legion.

on a side note is Bjorn a terran marine? I know he is old, but is he that old?

Be more specific in your input.

The "Terran Marines" can refer to two things:
1) Space Marines whose origins were Terran(in which case, there wouldn't be any real issue with the Gene-seed since you don't have to worry about the slight variations you'd find in a population of humans from offworld)

or

2) The original "Space Marines", aka the men who fought alongside the Emperor when he united Earth under his rule. They were just genetically altered humans, more akin to the Cadian's Kasrkin or the Spartans from Halo, with powered armor.

Kanluwen wrote:Be more specific in your input.

The "Terran Marines" can refer to two things:
1) Space Marines whose origins were Terran(in which case, there wouldn't be any real issue with the Gene-seed since you don't have to worry about the slight variations you'd find in a population of humans from offworld)

or

2) The original "Space Marines", aka the men who fought alongside the Emperor when he united Earth under his rule. They were just genetically altered humans, more akin to the Cadian's Kasrkin or the Spartans from Halo, with powered armor.

Originally every space marine in the space marine legions was from terra, thats what I meant by terran marine. this would account for before and just after the rediscovery of the primarchs.

Yes, they had the gene-seed of their primarch, however they did not have the culture of their primarch or the subsequent Marines recruited from his planet.

the terran marines?
where did the protos and ugly aliens go?
(spacecraft)

yea, and your missing kerrigan too! the overmind will get you! O.o

Starcraft 2 in a few weeks anybody? Good stuff, 10 years coming.

Oh, and more related to OP, what happens to a Chapter when it dies. Lots of chapters are dying and some are listed in the codex, but what actually happens?

As long as the marines are useing a primarchs gene seed they would have those traits.

gawd i cant wait til SC 2! ^_^

Anywho, im not much help. i dont know anything about SM, sorry ^_^

Do you mean the very first marines? The "techno-barbarians" or something else? I'm reading a lot of primarch stuff here, and getting kind of mixed ideas.

thunder marines? no one mentioned them?

There aren't any "terran marines" persay. Perhaps select few on the Emperor's elite guard can even say to live over a thousand years...let alone over 10,000.

Since the emperors children legion had a big mishap in their genesis and the Thousand Sons were blasphemous mutants before meeting Magnus the answer is yes.

Che-Vito wrote:There aren't any "terran marines" persay. Perhaps select few on the Emperor's elite guard can even say to live over a thousand years...let alone over 10,000.

I may be mistaken, but I had the impression that the Imperial Fists recruited on Terra to some degree

DEUS VULT wrote:

Che-Vito wrote:There aren't any "terran marines" persay. Perhaps select few on the Emperor's elite guard can even say to live over a thousand years...let alone over 10,000.

I may be mistaken, but I had the impression that the Imperial Fists recruited on Terra to some degree

Possibly. I couldn't tell you that, but it wouldn't make them any different from other genetic prospectives.

Che-Vito wrote:

DEUS VULT wrote:

Che-Vito wrote:There aren't any "terran marines" persay. Perhaps select few on the Emperor's elite guard can even say to live over a thousand years...let alone over 10,000.

I may be mistaken, but I had the impression that the Imperial Fists recruited on Terra to some degree

Possibly. I couldn't tell you that, but it wouldn't make them any different from other genetic prospectives.

True. Moot point I suppose.

how did I not see the starcraft reference when I made this topic, has it really been that long since my SC days...

Do you mean the very first marines? The "techno-barbarians" or something else? I'm reading a lot of primarch stuff here, and getting kind of mixed ideas.

Prior to the rediscovery of the primarchs, but after the creation of all 20 legions every space marine was from terra.

Shaman had the gist of it.

There are a few differences that can be attributed to the planet of origin. Salamanders, for instance, have onyx skin due to the radiation of the sun of their home system, and thus it's debatable that the original Terran Marines would have had the same skin color.

The Thousand Sons, however, did have severe problems with mutation that was directly related to their geneseed (though really, Tzeentch also had a direct hand in it too).

In some cases, the geneseed got where it was after several millennia of mutation. Some genetic lines lack the Betcher's Gland for example (Imperial Fists I think?).