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Hey all,

I wanted to ask everyone a quick question about the BA FAQ. In the FAQ there is a question about when to see if a model is in range of a Sanguinary Priest (SP from now on) to see when you get the Furious Charge (FC) and Feel No Pain (FNP) Bonuses.

I am a bit confused by not only the question, seeing how you need to fulfill being within six inches of the SP to get FC and FNP, but the anwser also vexes me.

Here is why, the FC rule is in the Base Rule Book (BRB) and does not have an entry for the C:BA. So why is it that you measure when the models are making attacks when FC requirements happen before any assault attacks are made?

Or to say it correctly in the BRB on page 75 in the USR, it details the requirements of FC. It also states that when the unit with the rule assaults they gain the +1 to both Init and Strength. Not when making attacks or putting bonuses to use.

Also I have heard it said that you use the Init stat multiple times, before combat and during. If as in the FAQ you have to wait to attack before you can apply the bonuses, does that mean you do not get the Init bonus?

You're asking us why the FAQ writer wrote the FAQ answer that they did?!?!

I move that this post is not a rules question at all.

If you play according to the FAQ, you measure that way because the FAQ says so.

So what your saying is we ignore what the BRB says, based on the facta question which ignored the BRB in the first place, get an answer that does nothing but muck the entire thing up?

At the start of your assault phase you are within the 6". You have FC and FNP. Then you assault, and are no longer in the 6".

So while you started the assault phase with FC and FNP, after the move attackers (and before defenders react) part of the assault phase you are no longer in the 6", and therefore no longer have FC or FNP.

By the time you get to making attacks, you can use special rules they presently have, not ones they had earlier in the turn.

Right I am not worried about measuring. I am worried that the USR is being ignored. Also that the question is not only incredibly poor, but that they choose to answer it.

I know that if you are in the 6 inch range you have these rules, if you leave that 6 inch range you lose them. The problem is the FC USR states they get the bonuses when they have assaulted. The FAQ directly and for some unknown reason contradicts this.


Also an interesting point about the question, can anyone tell me when a models characteristics are used. Lets say for example Strength (since I know of only one instance when Strength is used) .

The USR is not being ignored. The FAQ is clearing up the timing of when to determine what bonuses you are getting in the assault phase. It is telling you that you only check when you are actually about to roll the attacks, not earlier in the phase.

The reason the ruling is in the BA FAQ is that GW doesn't like to update their FAQs very often, and try to update as few as possible. I agree it should be in the rulebook FAQ.

And this is why I ignore most of the GW FAQs.

But I digress, solkan has it spot on!

So effectively what you all are saying is that the unit that is within range of the SP would never get the bonuses to Init because you have to wait to make thier attacks.

Thus negating the whole thing.

The FAQ does not Ignore The USRs.

1) yes when they initiate the assault movement they had FC, but when they charge out of the AOE and clash with the enemy they no longer have FC(this was granted to them by proximity to the SP) it makes perfect sense that while they initially threw themselves forward in a fever pitch, they got to the enemy, relized the SP no longer "has their Back" and quickly lose some steam.

2) It is the SP that "heals" the unit for FNP; if they are too far away from the Priest(at any point) he cannot save their lives. It really is just that simple.

Why is everyone saying that they leave the range of the SP.

Has anyone thought that maybe he has joined the squad, or that he is in a rhino, and is less then 6 inches away from the assault?

My question purely deals with the fact that FC gives whatever unit that has FC +1 to INI and strength once the assault move has completed. Then the FAQ says you do not measure for the Bonuses to be used until attacks are made, thus negating half of the FC rule seeing how you cannot go back up the Init ladder. In other words(or plain english) Once you start at Init 4 you cannot go back up to Init 5. Thus making it a broken rule.

Got to love how GW's FAQ actually break the game more.

Also that people feel they need to ask Questions about the FAQ.

Ahhh, Classic.

In any case, Kapitalist-Pig has it right, the FAQ breaks Blood Chalices.

Kapitalist-Pig wrote:Why is everyone saying that they leave the range of the SP.

Because you hadn't specified where this unit is.

Has anyone thought that maybe he has joined the squad, or that he is in a rhino, and is less then 6 inches away from the assault?

Probably, but again you hadn't specified earlier

If during the assault phase a unit (that doesn't have a SP in it, but the SP is nearby) leave's the area buff of the SP to get into assualt then it doesn't gain the effects. But if the SP is in the unit that charge's or the unit that charges is still in area buff range when it makes contact with the opponent then it does get the bonus from the SP.

Kapitalist-Pig wrote:Why is everyone saying that they leave the range of the SP.

Has anyone thought that maybe he has joined the squad, or that he is in a rhino, and is less then 6 inches away from the assault?.

In which case the unit would continue to benefit from the chalice.

It seems the idea is to lessen the area of affect of a chalice, presumably to stop it from affecting multiple units in one go quite so easily as present.

NO. At each Int pass 10,9,8,ect you check to see if a unit is with in range. If they are they get the bonus to Int.

Example. unit assaults, and is with in 6" If at Int 5 they are still in range then they strike at int 5. If not then their Int falls to 4 and they strick then.

Not seeing how this is complicated.

As for FNP, check everything they take a wound.

jbunny wrote:NO. At each Int pass 10,9,8,ect you check to see if a unit is with in range. If they are they get the bonus to Int.

Example. unit assaults, and is with in 6" If at Int 5 they are still in range then they strike at int 5. If not then their Int falls to 4 and they strick then.

Not seeing how this is complicated.

As for FNP, check everything they take a wound.

Ok, so what happens if this happens.

Blood Angels Assault a Squad of Fire Dragons.
At I5, a SINGLE Blood Angel is within 6" of the Priest, so the unit gets FC.

I5 Attacks Swing, the BA's are total Berks and do nothing, while the dragons kill one model.

The BA Player Removes the Single BA in Range.

At I4, Suddenly the BA are I4 again.

Yes, but they have already acted that turn. Nothing says you get to attack multiple times.

jbunny has it. It's just that simple too.

G

Not really, If you dont add the bonuses until you are "Making your attacks" it is impossible to get a bonus to initiative, as you dont make your attacks until the i step of the model, at which point it becomes Init5, but it doesn't matter because its already the Init 4 step.

WHAT?

The FAQ answer says you apply the bonuses from FC to the unit that has it when they make their attacks!

Thus making you wait till Init 4 to add the +1 to Init.

Which means a BC stops units attacking when they assault.

The unit checks at I4 if they are affected, so they become I5, but it's the I4 step, so they can't attack, since I5 has already passed.

Rofl!

Wow, even more broken that i had thought, way to go gw

This is so silly I am not going to even discuss this here anymore. The original question over on another forum was politely shut down if you get my jist.

G

I took a look at the FAQ in question and I think the general consensus is making it more difficult than it really is. The actual FAQ answer to the question is:

"When you put the bonuses to use, i.e. when the model makes its close combat attacks."

It paraphrases with 'when making close combat attacks', but you would put the initiative bonus to use when you check to see who strikes first in the assault phase. So when do you measure to see if you are in the bubble? Any time you go to use the init bonus, the str bonus, or about to use the FNP rule.

No, you dont check for init bonus when "seeing who strikes first"....

As the faq says, you do it when the model makes its close combat attacks.

Maybe the Blood Angels, upon realizing that their Priest is close enough and Brother Vlad just needs glasses, can turn to the nice orks they were about to hit with their pointy sticks and request a mulligan?

I can never understand why people suddenly turn into mindless automatons when it comes to rules.

The intent is quite clear here-- if you're within 6" after the charge, strike at +1init. If you're not, strike at your normal init.

Trying to turn this into another "zomg raw breaks the game" moment requires one to act like a mindless computer program, taking input and following a strict set of coded guidelines, refusing to show any thought in generating an output.

kartofelkopf wrote:The intent is quite clear here

No, it isn't. If it was clear, we wouldn't be arguing.

You would GWAR.

I think the general consensus is making it more difficult than it really is.

Indeed.