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Yeah so, I'm starting to like the look of guard, so I might start an army. I've got some questions though.
1.Are Cadians and Catachans any different?
2. How hard is painting camouflage?
3. How much does a 1500 point army cost (roughly)?
4. They can't take Land Raiders, can they?
5. What does a basic list look like? What elements are your staples, and which are half decent?

Thanks. I don't have to codex, so I have no idea about any of the stuff.

Might be able to find it on scribd though.

1: Visually, yes. In-game, no.
2: That depends on what quality you want and how much detail.
3: That depends on what you intend to get IN your 1500 point army. IT can vary dramatically.
4: Not without Inquisitorial allies.
5: There's a wide variety of basic lists. Are you looking for footslogger, fully mechanized, lots of tanks, air cav?

1. Ruleswise no. All types of IG have the same stats. To make a themed list you just choose certain options and leave out others.

2. Basic Camo is quite easy but it still depends on your painting skill. Painting more detailed camo is a bit harder, but looks better. There are lots of guides so it shouldn't be hard to find one you like.

3. Depends on the build. There is a lot of variation in the IG codex so there are lots of different ways to play them. Usually they cost more than other armies. Infantry hordes are very expensive, a box of cadians can be played as a unit that only costs about 50 points. There are ways to play them with less infantry but the tanks are still expensive.

4.No, no LR for IG

5. Not sure haven't played them.

A basic list...Hmm,I have no idea..I'm still in that "Elite troops" Space Marine mentality. I guess a footslogging list then. One of the reasons they appeal to me is their swarmy-ness, the other is their tanks....

Well, They're more expensive than Space marines, right? That's all I really need to know

Again, that depends on the Space Marine list and the Guard list you're asking for. But generally yes.

As for footslogging, that can get expensive because you can have well over 55 models in a single troops choice.

Melissia wrote:Again, that depends on the Space Marine list and the Guard list you're asking for. But generally yes.

As for footslogging, that can get expensive because you can have well over 55 models in a single troops choice.

That's not that much money though...10 guardsmen is 25 bucks, so 55 is about 140$...I spent more on my Heavy Slot for CSM

However, I really like leman russes, and at 50 bucks each, I could end up spending at least 200$, which is...well, not cheap.

Yes, but HS slots tend to be more expensive anyway.

And it's worse for metal armies. The FW exorcist is hilariously cheaper than the GW one.

Melissia wrote:Yes, but HS slots tend to be more expensive anyway.

And it's worse for metal armies. The FW exorcist is hilariously cheaper than the GW one.

Yeah, but that organ on the top is awesome, so I'd personally pay the extra money for the W one. Not to mention I wouldn't have to pay egregious shipping caharges

But I see your point. Can shock troops take chimeras with them as DTs?

Samus_aran115 wrote:Yeah so, I'm starting to like the look of guard, so I might start an army. I've got some questions though.
1.Are Cadians and Catachans any different?
2. How hard is painting camouflage?
3. How much does a 1500 point army cost (roughly)?
4. They can't take Land Raiders, can they?
5. What does a basic list look like? What elements are your staples, and which are half decent?

Thanks. I don't have to codex, so I have no idea about any of the stuff.

Might be able to find it on scribd though.

1) No.
2) It's a royal pain in the ass for a newbie painter like me, but it's not impossible.
3) Depends. Mechanized or infantry-heavy? You said you want a footslogging army, so less than mech, but keep this in mind - Guard always consists of a LOT of models. You're used to paying $35 for a single Troops choice. In the Guard, a Troops choice is three to ten squads, at around $25 each, so for a full platoon, expect to pay somewhere around $200-250. If you go mechanized, even more, since a single Chimera is around $35.
4) No.
5) This varies greatly. I've seen Death Korps of Krieg infantry armies that look radically different from a Vostroyan Firstborn mechanized army... I've seen a Catachan veteran-heavy army that looks totally different from a Cadian veteran-heavy army. You're always going to get a very "armed forces" feel out of it, but the look is very much up to you. It's not like Space Marines where your only customization options are painting their armor a different color or playing Space Wolves.

Samus_aran115 wrote:

Melissia wrote:Yes, but HS slots tend to be more expensive anyway.

And it's worse for metal armies. The FW exorcist is hilariously cheaper than the GW one.

Yeah, but that organ on the top is awesome, so I'd personally pay the extra money for the W one. Not to mention I wouldn't have to pay egregious shipping caharges

But I see your point. Can shock troops take chimeras with them as DTs?

You mean Storm Troopers? Yes they can.

No, I meant your standard,run of the mill Cadian Shock troop.

You should get the codex-- or at least the army builder files-- before planning out what you want to buy.

"Cadian Shock Troops" are not an actual option.

What you DO have are the following choices for troops slots:

1: Infantry Platoon
-- 25 members minimum
-- 1 Platoon Command Squad
---- Four heavy weapons choices
---- May have a heavy weapons team, takes up two
---- Platoon Commander may purchase most wargear
---- May take Chimera
---- May take Commissar
-- Min 2, max 5 Infantry Squads
---- 1 special weapon and/or one heavy weapon team
---- Sergeant may purchase some wargear
---- May take Chimera
---- May take Commissar
-- Min 0, max 5 Heavy Weapons Squads
---- 3 heavy weapons teams each
-- Min 0, Max 2 Special Weapons Squads
---- 3 special weapons each
-- Min 0, Max 1 Conscripts Squad
---- 20-50 squad members

2: Veteran Squad
-- 10 members
-- Several upgrades possible
---- Demolitions
------ Demolitions charge, melta bombs
---- Forward Sentries
------ Camo Cloak, Snare Mines
---- Grenadiers
------ Carapace Armor
-- May exchange lasguns for shotguns
-- 3 special weapons and/or 1 heavy weapon
-- Sergeant may purchase wargear
-- May take Chimera

3: Penal Legion Squad
-- 10 members
-- Stubborn, Scouts
-- Roll d6 before the game begins to determine rules
---- 1-2: Lasguns are Assault 2
---- 3-4: Counter-Attack, Furious Charge, Fleet
---- 5-6: 2 CCWs, Rending


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cadian Shock Troops are simply standard Guardsmen by another name.

Melissia wrote:You should get the codex-- or at least the army builder files-- before planning out what you want to buy.

Wisdom.

I started buying Space Marines willy-nilly before buying the codex when I first started, and now I've got a whole bunch of crap I never field that I took the time to assemble and paint before I realized they were the exact antithesis of my play style.

I bought the IG, Orks, and Tau codexes before I started my second two armies - Orks, then Tau. I'm glad I did, because I ended up making just about all the right choices.

Haven't actually started my IG regiment yet, but because I know the codex like the back of my hand I've got a very good idea of what I want in it, I won't be wasting any money - and believe you me, with the financial black hole that is IG, that is a blessing.

I'll give my standard bit of advice: buy used. There are so many people dumping their old infantry-heavy IG armies that you should be able to buy entire platoons of Catachans and Cadians quite cheaply. Same goes for the Leman Russ and its variants, which have fallen out of favor due to the awesome power of the Manticore, but have sold quite heavily over the years.

Yeah, paint stripping will be involved, but for 25% to 50% of the price of retail (not off, _of_), it's worth the hassle.

You won't escape the cost of Chimeras, though - they're in very heavy demand these days. Wonder why?

I wonder why they can't make chimeras cheaper? Oh,yeah, because GW needs to make money, how could I forget?

I'll probably play a couple proxy battles before committing to actually buying Guardsmen. I've got more than enough LoTR stuff to count as an entire army (I bought like 300 models for like 150 bucks from a friend).

The only problem is tanks, but cardboard prisms work fine. I'll probably start my IG with a command squad and the battleforce and pawn the sentinel off for more guardsmen.

Thanks for your help!

The sentinel is one of the best things you can get, especially if it's an armored one.

Really? They look kind of crappy. (there's the Space Marine mentality again )

Printed out the army list section of the codex for now. Infantry platoons are strange...They're 130 points minimum...Should I bother upgrading them? Or should I just leave them at the bare-bones kind of point?

Also, how do orders even work?

Think of them this way: They're Plasma Cannons that can move and fire and never have to suffer Gets Hot! with a front armor of 12, which means they are actually kinda hard to get rid of in close combat.

Huh, yeah and at 55 pointsm why not? That's almost half as much as a dreadnought.

Melissia wrote:The sentinel is one of the best things you can get, especially if it's an armored one.

Not everyone agrees with this statement.

Samus_aran115 wrote:Yeah so, I'm starting to like the look of guard, so I might start an army. I've got some questions though.
2. How hard is painting camouflage?
3. How much does a 1500 point army cost (roughly)?
5. What does a basic list look like? What elements are your staples, and which are half decent?

2.) surprisingly easy. Camo gets kind of distorted by the folds in the clothing, so you don't even have to do it well to get the effect off.

3.) 10x dudes cost about $25, a chimera about $35 and heavier armor up to $80 (although with some conversion skills many of these vehicles can be built from a chimera). As such, with current prices, you're looking at $300-$400. It's not too bad if you only buy stuff as fast as you paint it.

5.) there are a few major facets to a guard army:
- infantry
- mechanized
- armored
- artillery
- air cav

Generally speaking, you're going to want to pick two and go for it. For example, I go 2/3rds infantry 1/3 artillery. A "leafblower" list is about 2/3ds mechanized, 1/3 artillery, etc.

Samus_aran115 wrote:Printed out the army list section of the codex for now. Infantry platoons are strange...They're 130 points minimum...Should I bother upgrading them? Or should I just leave them at the bare-bones kind of point?

Unupgraded infantry platoons are basically the most worthless troops choice in the game. Always give squads SOMETHING, although don't go overboard.

PISs are pretty much only good for taking and holding objectives, but PCSs and SWSs can take some serious weapons. Also, you can do power blobs if you're dedicating a big chunk of your points to infantry.

I've fought the Guard plenty of times and read the codex, so I've got a fair idea about what works, at least in the battles I've seen. Here's a selection of some of the best stuff I've encountered, anyone feel free to refute any of the points if you think they're wrong:

In some ways what works best for the Guard depends on the situation. On the defence, or supporting, Armoured Sentinels with Camo netting and good firing lines often require a disproportionate response to get rid of, which is to your benefit as you tie up more of your opponents resources. In my experience, they do tend to get chewed up quite quickly on the advance though.

Vendetta's are just unbelievable for their points cost, especially when outflanking with a unit of special weapon equipped Veterans. That's a lot of firepower that is essentially impossible to counter on the turn it arrives, and will almost always score some heavy hits on your opponent, so even if they go down they will have easily earn't the points back.

Marbo, a 65 point, place-wherever-you-like demolition charge. Again, will almost always do more damage, points-wise, than it costs to take him.

The Banewolf, pretty much one of the best infantry killers in the game, a fast vehicle with a template weapon that ignores anything but 2+ saves, plus it can mount a multi melta for respectably good AT.

Veterans are some of the best infantry in 40K in my opinion: Relatively cheap, BS 4 with good weapon options and with camo cloaks the equivalent of Space Marine armour when hiding in a ruin.

There are of lot of good units in the IG, it'll just depend on the army style you like, which is what you'll need to build around, obviously.

Ailaros wrote:Not everyone agrees with this statement.

Yes, and they're wrong.

Melissia wrote:

Ailaros wrote:Not everyone agrees with this statement.

Yes, and they're wrong.

I disagree, I have 6 Sentinels and I never take them. Scratch that, I take them in games without force org charts. This is because in the IG codex some of the best units are in the FA slots. Valkyries/Vendettas are just plain AMAZING. And a Hellhound or Banewolf squadron usually takes up my last choice for FA. Sentinels are just up against too good of competition for the 3 FA FO slots.

Red_Lives wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Ailaros wrote:Not everyone agrees with this statement.

Yes, and they're wrong.

I disagree, I have 6 Sentinels and I never take them.

Your loss.

I've gotten great results with sentinels, especially against MEQ and light armor (plascan armored sentinels and outflanking autocannon scout sentinels), and they're nowhere near as expensive points-wise as the units you named.

Its not just about base points cost. Its about the efficiency of points spent.

75 points for a AV12 plaz cannon is not very efficient.

a 40pt BS3 auto cannon is not efficient no matter how you slice it or whatever one-shot wonder ability it provides. for the price of 3 sentinel auto cannons I can take close to 6 HWS auto cannons. (off by 10 points.)

However 130pts for 3 twin-linked AV12 Fast outflanking lascannons IS efficient not matter how you slice it. Oh and bonus, its a transport vehicle.

How did you keep your sentinels alive?

I fielded 12 of them before ( when they could be taken as HQ or elite i cant remember )

They die to normal bolters like flies.

LunaHound wrote:How did you keep your sentinels alive?

I fielded 12 of them before ( when they could be taken as HQ or elite i cant remember )

They die to normal bolters like flies.

I think it was Elite. I remember when I played as a kid, a friend fielded 6 of them and it took me one round of shooting to take them all out, and im pretty sure they werent what I was actually focusing my fire on.
I do love the look of the models though. Probably because they look like AT-ST's.

OP.
Be prepaired to fork out a lot of money and make mistakes before you get the army your looking for and can play to the fullist of your skill.

I've been playing on and off with Guard since 2nd edition and I still make monumental cock ups while buying and playing

IG cost more than other armies, but not as much more as you might think. While our basic troops are very cheap, we don't have things like 85pt predators that cost $40 either.

I wrote up a codex review that discusses every unit in the book, it'll give you a pretty good understanding of what's available:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/5th_Edition_Imperial_Guard_Codex_Review_%28Polonius%29

The IG, like nearly other army, does have some pretty passionate defenders and detractors for pretty much every unit. Read everything you can, weigh the options, proxy stuff, and make up your own mind.

In the particular case of sentinels, they're a niche unit. there are certain builds where adding them is very useful, and they're cheap enough that nearly every list can absorb one without diluting it's power... but they're not exactly the sort of unit I'd feel comfortable telling you to use if you didn't want to use them already. The best unit to compare them to, in terms of effectiveness, from the space marine book would be bikes. Both units can be good, neither is a must have.

As for models, don't be afraid to look on ebay for old metals. Metal catachans in particular are dirt cheap. I'm talking $1-2 a model cheap, with plenty of specials and heavies included in most lots. Metal strips easier, and the old metal cats are actually very nice models.

Melissia describes sentinels as moving plasma cannons with front armor 12, but I've always thought of them as moving lascannons with hunter-seeker missiles that can move through cover (albeit with front armor 10). That's the beauty of sentinels, though, they can be customized completely to fit the situation, and they are endless joy when used properly.

Used improperly, however, and yes, they become bolter bait. I hear some people saying they lose sentinels to regular bolters... if you've got a missile launcher or lascannon (48" range) or a plas cannon (36" range) on your sentinel, and it can move 6" and still fire, how are you even ending up in bolter range? Are you walking your sentinels up to a Marine gunline? They're not assaulting units, that's not a good use for them.

Used properly, they're one of the cheapest killy units in an IG regiment. Are Valkyries better? Some will say yes, and I can see their point, but I will always personally prefer sentinels.

Ailaros wrote:

Melissia wrote:The sentinel is one of the best things you can get, especially if it's an armored one.

Not everyone agrees with this statement.

Samus_aran115 wrote:Yeah so, I'm starting to like the look of guard, so I might start an army. I've got some questions though.
2. How hard is painting camouflage?
3. How much does a 1500 point army cost (roughly)?
5. What does a basic list look like? What elements are your staples, and which are half decent?

2.) surprisingly easy. Camo gets kind of distorted by the folds in the clothing, so you don't even have to do it well to get the effect off.

3.) 10x dudes cost about $25, a chimera about $35 and heavier armor up to $80 (although with some conversion skills many of these vehicles can be built from a chimera). As such, with current prices, you're looking at $300-$400. It's not too bad if you only buy stuff as fast as you paint it.

5.) there are a few major facets to a guard army:
- infantry
- mechanized
- armored
- artillery
- air cav

Generally speaking, you're going to want to pick two and go for it. For example, I go 2/3rds infantry 1/3 artillery. A "leafblower" list is about 2/3ds mechanized, 1/3 artillery, etc.

Samus_aran115 wrote:Printed out the army list section of the codex for now. Infantry platoons are strange...They're 130 points minimum...Should I bother upgrading them? Or should I just leave them at the bare-bones kind of point?

Unupgraded infantry platoons are basically the most worthless troops choice in the game. Always give squads SOMETHING, although don't go overboard.

PISs are pretty much only good for taking and holding objectives, but PCSs and SWSs can take some serious weapons. Also, you can do power blobs if you're dedicating a big chunk of your points to infantry.

Okay, so I did a little 500 point battle on my bedroom floor last night. It was Guard Vs. CSM. Here's my IG list I wrote up in a couple minutes.
HQ- 1 Company command squad (No upgrades,lolololol) --------50 points

Troops- 1 Infantry platoon --------------142
+ Bolt pistol and Power weapon for the PCS

----------1 Infantry platoon --------------142
+ Bolt pistol and Power weapon for the PCS

Heavy- Leman Russ with HBolter Sponsons -170

I guess I didn't read your advice soon enough! I took the leman russ because the CSM were running rhinos, and I've gotta say, they're my favorite new toy. I blew up a rhino (Exploded) and destroyed an entire unit of CSM on the first turn. Awesome.

Now, honestly, if this wasn't a 500 point battle, I probably would've put more upgrades into the units, but I really wanted to get that Leman Russ in there, so I compensated. I guess I accidentally made a leaf blower list?

I completely won, mainly because of the battlecannon destroying an entire unit of marines. The other unit of CSM was murder to kill in CC (I charged them) and if it wasn't because of Orders, It would have taken much longer. 3 BS and WS suuuuucks.

Overall, I liked them! I have to learn how to expect less from them though. I can't really expect 7 hits out 11 with Guard. My average shooting phase was roughly 3 wounds, and the marines passed all of them (of course). So yeah, I might go buy one of those packs of five Guardsmen, to see how painting them is.

Oh, and should I take a commisar? They seem pretty awesome, although I should probably read more about them first.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Polonius wrote:IG cost more than other armies, but not as much more as you might think. While our basic troops are very cheap, we don't have things like 85pt predators that cost $40 either.

I wrote up a codex review that discusses every unit in the book, it'll give you a pretty good understanding of what's available:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/5th_Edition_Imperial_Guard_Codex_Review_%28Polonius%29

The IG, like nearly other army, does have some pretty passionate defenders and detractors for pretty much every unit. Read everything you can, weigh the options, proxy stuff, and make up your own mind.

In the particular case of sentinels, they're a niche unit. there are certain builds where adding them is very useful, and they're cheap enough that nearly every list can absorb one without diluting it's power... but they're not exactly the sort of unit I'd feel comfortable telling you to use if you didn't want to use them already. The best unit to compare them to, in terms of effectiveness, from the space marine book would be bikes. Both units can be good, neither is a must have.

As for models, don't be afraid to look on ebay for old metals. Metal catachans in particular are dirt cheap. I'm talking $1-2 a model cheap, with plenty of specials and heavies included in most lots. Metal strips easier, and the old metal cats are actually very nice models.

Oh,awesome. I bookmarked that.

That's another question I have. Can I mix together different "Factions"? For instance, can I use a catachan command squad and cadian infantry? Or even, a unit of 10 Guardsmen, 5 being steel legion, the other five being cadians?

WYSIWYG, It's fine, but I just wanted to be sure. I have no interest in catachans. I was thinking cadians (Cheapest) but steel legion also seem pretty awesome. DKOK would be the absolute best, but the absolute MOST expensive, so I can scratch them out.