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hi all

right a mate of mine at my LGS has built this list using the new BA dex its a toughie and im wondering what you'd use to beat it

HQ

Mcphisting

TROOPS

5x assault marines

5x scouts

FAST ATTACK

2 x ball predators with TL AC and HB's
3x atk bikes with MM's

HEAVY SUPPORT

2 x pred's with TL LC and LC sponsons
1x Vindicator

i think thats everything
his tactics are sound and he's a decent player.
he does cheese it up by turbo boosting onto objectives in the final turn though
1500pts is what you have to spank him with g/l

Play objectives and kill his troops. That alone will get you a draw, at least.

Use Oblits to put down Mephisto from afar, and then focus them on the AV13 spam. This is one of the few lists where I might advocate a couple termicide squads, too.

not overly scary IMO, but then I play biker marines. Just melta/assault the vehicles into slag, focus on the vindicator first, and wail on mephiston with meltas / plasmas. boom, done.

hi gents

i dont want to draw i want to break him lol

i play bikers aswell but remember his tanks are fast and can back pedal 12 inches and still give me the good news and with L/C's and T/L AC's and DC i dont have the wounds to soak that up.

i considered turn 1 DP ing in 10 Sternguard with combi meltas and combat squading them in the hopes of maybe dealing with 2 of those fething preds (with hestan of course) the rest of my army is

Hq

V Hestan

Troops

1 x 5 man Scout squad c/c and m/l
1 x 10 man tactical squad

elites

10 Sternguard w combi meltas
5 assault terminators 3 t/h s/s 2 l/c

fast attack

3 x landspeeders with M/M
or
Atk bikes with M/M
(i might be better with atk bikes lower profile and might stand a better chance against his weapon loadout)

heavy support

Land Raider Redeemer with e/a m/m
predator las flavour
predator A/C S/B flavour

this is my normal allround list
any critiscism would be appreciated
remember its for dealing with this list at the top

I think this should be moved to 40K army lists.

Coc0loc0 wrote:I think this should be moved to 40K army lists.

It's not really discussing "Oh here is my list please comment".
I'd say this should go in tactics.

Haddi wrote:

Coc0loc0 wrote:I think this should be moved to 40K army lists.

It's not really discussing "Oh here is my list please comment".
I'd say this should go in tactics.

+1.

Anyway, you don't need 10 combi-meltas unless you plan to combat squad them and kill off two tanks in one go.
As for Mephiston...Laspred. Anything AP2 really.

In my opinion, really the only way you could counter them is going as shooty as you can. The BA will keep you on the defensive, so you want to make sure you have that. He's coming to you? Great, have a bunch of Devs or anything that can't move that much. Unless you play for objectives, you'll really only need to wait for him to attempt to deepstrike on to you with his AS, and run his Bikes/Vindi/Baal at you. Seriously, invest in Devs. He only has 10 troops, so I would recommend just kitting them out with Plascan or Lascan, pop the vehicles he tries to rush at you and still be able to use the Plas against his groups, no matter how spread out they are they are only 5 per squad, he can't spread them that far. Mephiston will be a toughy, and you may be sorely tempted to invest every single thing you have into shooting at him. DON'T. Focus primarily on his tanks, Mephiston may be able to do some damage, but he can really only do damage within his (Possible fail) psychic 18 inch movement/assault range. His vehicles could potentially do more damage, move 12 inches each and still be hitting you from a good distance. Possibly use a squad of Tac marines or something to simply tie him up for a round or two.

All I can say really.

Thats a pretty easy list to beat ... Take psychic defense and laugh at mcfailstons impotence.

as for anything else, it has 2 troop units at 1500 points, you win 2/3rds of the games youll play.

How many Genestealers can you force into a 1500 point army at 14pts per model?

Hi Guys,
First of all thankyou for your posts on this topic. I am Shakey's friend who fields Mephistons Mechanized madness.....

Just a few points on my list,
1.) Firstly I nearly always hold my troops in reserve ( save when I fight nids when I field my sniper scouts so I can shoot M/Cs)

2.) I never deep strike I always bring my troops on from my board edge, I only ever plan to hold one objective and plan to either wipe you out or contest all the other objectives. (Another up side of this is occassionly my A/ marines catch a unit near my board edge and charge them...ie flamers in the daemon list, zoanthropes etc...things they can beat, if not i play keep away)

3.) Due to this tactic I very rarely ever lose my troops.....they are hidden out of range or in cover...it is hard to bring much fire to bear on them when you have five tanks and Mephiston in your face.)

4.) All my tanks have extra armour and dozer blades/ storm shield on the vindi, and I use cover to my advantage, eg often my pred is hidden, then it moves 6" and fires three lascannons at you in your turn,

5.) So far I have had many players at my local store tell me how easy this list is to beat, only to see them fail, and these lists include a daemon player who came 14th at GT last year, (Thats Glenn btw Shakey, played his list today and wiped him out to a man whilst only losing 400pts...Mephiston was unwounded!) a necron GT list with the deciever and two monoliths, and a fate weaver GT army with a Khorne herald on juggernaut 10 horrors, 8 blood crushers, a soul grinder and two units of 10 bloodletters. My point is it is an easy list to underestimate, apart from mephiston i am nearly always around 20-24" away from you, and have no problems playing catch me if you can in killpoints games...eg I get two from Lascannon fire, then spend the rest of the game keeping away from you. (Which I did against a tervigon heavy nid list, much to the anger of my oponent, once hed lost his flyrant and trygon)

6.) Other players often spiel out a list that would beat this....9 oblits, or a wraith army, or uber mech eldar, this is fine every army has their weaknesses...such is the way of paper rock scissors 40k, but no one actually fields those lists in store, and to me if you have to tailor a list to beat a specific list you have not won at all....anyone can do that.

7.) The list is very vunrable, and can be picked apart by a canny player, it has only been beaten once, but it was beaten soundly...by daemons ( with an unkillable bloodthirster....my entire army shot him in one turn and he remained on one wound, thats a lot of invs to make!!!) Why I like this list is because it is fluid fast and devasting when used correctly, but it is no auto win button and requires thought to do well)

So far I have played Eldar, Necrons, Tau, Nids, Space marines - Khan list & a Hestan list, Sisters, Chaos (Termi heavy) Daemons, Dark eldar, Imperial Guard and Blood Angels, and have only lost once, to Daemons. The Eldar game was a tight draw, and included ten wraithgaurd with rerolled save and cover etc, with M Ra in the unit!!

My main concerns are Eldar and Nids as they nerf Mephiston, and anything with deep striking anti tank......but often i prepare for that with set up.

(If I have commented too much or if my comments should be in 40k lists, i apologize. It'ds just having read the comments I felt I had to add player comments.)

Id say use the sternguard to combi plas meph. He aint safe from a drop pod!

Radi87 wrote:Hi Guys,
First of all thankyou for your posts on this topic. I am Shakey's friend who fields Mephistons Mechanized madness.....

4.) All my tanks have extra armour and dozer blades/ storm shield on the vindi, and I use cover to my advantage, eg often my pred is hidden, then it moves 6" and fires three lascannons at you in your turn,

Sorry, What? Don't remember seeing anything about overwatch in my BA codex

DEATH89 wrote:

Radi87 wrote:Hi Guys,
First of all thankyou for your posts on this topic. I am Shakey's friend who fields Mephistons Mechanized madness.....

4.) All my tanks have extra armour and dozer blades/ storm shield on the vindi, and I use cover to my advantage, eg often my pred is hidden, then it moves 6" and fires three lascannons at you in your turn,

Sorry, What? Don't remember seeing anything about overwatch in my BA codex

Sorry mis typed, meant hide them in your turn pop them out 6" in my turn and shoot you.

And yes Mephiston is not unkillable, but if I know you have deep striking sterngaurd/ oblits, he will be in cover....I dont mind taking a 1 in 6 chance hell take a wound, in order to give him 4 up cover against anything taking his armour save away.....(More importantly, If you shoot mephiston too much, my tank fire will whittle you down...guns that hurt him are often best save for tanks.)

Get lots of TH/SS terminators. Get a librarian or other psychic defense. Get something that can drop pod or deep strike meltaguns near his tanks. Beat face.

The LR is pretty good if you can deal with the bikes since lascannons aren't the greated thing against AV 14.

Having only 10 scoring models will make objectives really tough, though. With variable game length, you can never be sure when last turn is.

I wish we still had overwatch I'll just use chaos gate for nostalgia I guess...

Just to clarify.....The original aim of this post was to ask advice on how you would deal with this list WITH THE ARMIES YOU USE WEEK IN WEEK OUT....not a tailored list.

So for example, I play an ork list with this this and that.....Then an example of how you would alter your tactics, in order to exploit the weaknesses of this list, it may be you play a marine list with no librarian as standard, so the aim is to beat this list through tactics.....not just by taking 3 squads of TH/SS terminators, unless you ALWAYS take them.

May I ask why you choose Mephiston?

I know he's an awesomely powerful IC, but he is also very expensive. In a force that is already so low on infantry, I would have to wonder if you couldn't get a bit more efficiency and flexibility from cheaper units?

I don't know which aspect of Mephiston is most frequently important to you, but for example with 270pts

If psychic powers are important:

You could take and ordinary Librarian + epistolary upgrade. You could put him on a bike to help with his toughness, or give him a jump pack to replace Wings of Sanguinius.

Then you would still have enough left over to by an additional assault squad, which would help cover the weakness you mentioned to deep striking tank hunters.

that would give you 7 wounds, and 2 psychic powers + jump pack / bike, and a shed load more fire power/ attack rolls for the same price.

If close combat is important

You could take a Reclusiarch + Death Company, and He would allow them to re-roll failed to hit and wound rolls with Liturgies of Blood.

And there are other interesting and inexpensive elite choices which you might be able to add if you jiggled right. Techmarine obviously jumps out, and Sanguinary Priest provides some decent bonuses to assault troops.

I'm by no means saying that you should ditch Mephiston, but I would be interested to know why you chose to include him?

Why I use Mephiston.

Well personally I love the havoc he can create, I have killed off entire units in a single round of CC with him, biffed defilers, soul grinders, CTan and independant characters galore. He dies in 50% of the games I play, but also 50% of the time he kills half an army by his lonesome, against Nids and eldar he suffers, and is a waste of 250 points, (save the psychic hood). But I love how he performs against all the other armies, and that is why I include him. ( And also why I get annoyed at tailored lists- I always use him, even if I know I am fighting Nids or eldar) He also draws a lot of fire, I have had entire armies unload on him for a turn, which buys my tanks time to take out priority targets. And furthermore, I just enjoy using him, pure and simple, he is to me, what Lysander is to many players.

And I have used death company but dislike the lack of control you have over them, and I am a strong believer that troops should only be used to take objectives, unless you are a Nid or Ork player.....

Chosen with plasma/melta. Oblits. Fire/forget. Ok so what will the rest of your army be doing after turn 1?

Kurgash wrote:Chosen with plasma/melta. Oblits. Fire/forget. Ok so what will the rest of your army be doing after turn 1?

You are aware that any quarter brained monkey can come up with a list to beat this one. Its gots lots of tanks so take loads of tank hunters lolz look at me I are genius!!!

The OP gave us his regular army list and was looking to get some advice on how to use it against the blood angels.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

kill dem stunties wrote:Thats a pretty easy list to beat ... Take psychic defense and laugh at mcfailstons impotence.

as for anything else, it has 2 troop units at 1500 points, you win 2/3rds of the games youll play.

Well yes if the tanks decide to drive past the objectives and take up crochet.

I would totally pwn this army. It is so rubbish. I have an army of terminators with jump packs . Lascannons and collars of khorne. They are amazing. They are not tourney legal but my friends let me play with it because they are almost as slowed as this list. Mephiston would die turn one from hepatitis and then I would lasercannon the. tanks into the dirt. Win

mephistonsabummer wrote:I would totally pwn this army. It is so rubbish. I have an army of terminators with jump packs . Lascannons and collars of khorne. They are amazing. They are not tourney legal but my friends let me play with it because they are almost as slowed as this list. Mephiston would die turn one from hepatitis and then I would lasercannon the. tanks into the dirt. Win

mephistonsabummer wrote:I would totally pwn this army. It is so rubbish. I have an army of terminators with jump packs . Lascannons and collars of khorne. They are amazing. They are not tourney legal but my friends let me play with it because they are almost as slowed as this list. Mephiston would die turn one from hepatitis and then I would lasercannon the. tanks into the dirt. Win

Deary me.

1 in 3 Mephistons in the imperium have hepititus and dont know it, get checked.....
For just £2 a month you could sponsor, kids who claim Mephiston is slowed to have 40k lessons....to help end their moaning and griping.
How many Mephiston's does it take to win a game.............depends on what you are playing and the level of your opponents ability.......get my point.

....ah sorry what a waste of a post....perhaps we could get back to an actual tactics discussion rather than pointless silly comments.

(27)

OK. I Is Intelligenttacticaldiscussioncat.

With the army that MrShakey posted he has all the tools to worry the BA list. Deffo go for attack bikes over the speeders tho. Do the same job but better IMO thanks to inability to be shaken, lower profile as stated and cover save from turbo.

Much as I Bumlove the Redeemer I would have thought a crusader or godhammer would be better, not just against this list (I'm not tailoring, honest) but in general.

Bet the BA player just vrooms off at the first sign of trouble. TBH I find that this sort of BA army plays more like a homo-eldar force than a proper marine chapter. Where are my angels of death? Oh there they are, retreating from the enemy 12" a turn and sipping coffee and crocheting in their tanks. While McF@%kface flies around extending his arms and shouting " 24 Inch Zone of death" scaring away enemy assaulters.

But hey, it's an effective tactic. Take nothing away from you for it. Pretty sure i saw the same army list on Warseer in April. Same player?

Lascannon armed Jump Pack assault terminators of khorne for the MF win.

LOL at mephistonsabummer, something tells me you've had a sore bum from the std ridden tit in the past.

Think youll struggle against the dp army of doom i use regularly, i can take out 4 of your tanks in the first turn cover or no cover. ill struggle with ass face but everything else is just gonna blow over, you can only fall back so far befoe your at your own board edge.

mephistonsabummer wrote:

Lascannon armed Jump Pack assault terminators of khorne for the MF win.

Yea ok fellas, its an easy list to beat.....we all agree that....why bother rolling to hit...to pen....then on the damage table.....tanks are easy.......
Suggest thread is closed as we have established that only idiots would be beaten by the list.......hmmm and I thought the players at my LGW were good players, well guess we all fail before the might of you brave, brave, forum posters........see you on the table

You have a point dude. The players at your store. Must be truly awful. Where you at, could use some easy games with my termie army.

Aberdeen, you are always welcome....