Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

In 7th, characters could and usually would kill the 2-3 models in front of them, thus sparing them from any return attacks.

Now, not only will the btb models get to strike back when they move up, but the models behind them [and sometimes the models behind them, and sometimes the models behind THEM, and in a horde elven spearmen unit the models behind THEM....] will be able to strike back, meaning characters could take between 2 and 12+ attacks back in their faces. How are your heroes holding up in the new edition? I consistently had my exalted heroes chumped anytime the enemy was able to direct 2 or more attacks at them, so now I'm quite concerned for my more fragile characters, like casting-oriented vampires. No combining ward and regeneration saves hurts models like Vlad, too, who used to enjoy relative invulnerability in a unit with the Drakenhoff Standard.

Are you seeing a reduction in front-loaded characters that take 100 point weapons and rely on just heavy armour and maybe a mount to stay alive? Are you seeing a reduction in fighty lords in general, replaced by level 3 or 4 sorcerer lords? I've seen Crone Hellebron beaten down by basic ghoul attacks, so I'm wondering how viable such characters are now?

My characters can somewhat hold up, but they're Orcs: One character always has a 6+ Ward by default, another can buy up to a 2+ save without magical gear, and all (non-Goblins) are T5. The main changes seem less for Lords who spent everything on weapons, and more for those who took defensive equipment now that they can only ever have a 1+ save and either ward or regen.

The 8th ed. magic item list finally allows a chaos lord to take a 4+ ward save. Before that, fighty chaos lords were pretty useless. Just too easy to kill and you can get more punch from other sources.

My chaos lord now has a 3+ ward save (Mark of Tzeentch), chaos runesword (+1A, +1WS, +1S), and rides a demonic mount. If I could make it stubborn, it would pretty much be perfect. The model has fared pretty well and probably averaged about four dead models a turn.

Honestly, most chaos armies should be using a level 4 sorcerer lord instead, but I think chaos is all about hulking close combat characters so that's how I run mine.

I've been curious about this, too... I wonder if some people will take minimum characters now and just go for numbers? However, the bonuses from a general and BSB in a combat unit are probably too good to pass up for many...

Anything T4 or with a bad armor save is highly likely to get poked to death. I'm worried for both forms of Undead. Neither really gets armor, and killing the character takes a lot of the bite out of a unit.

RiTides wrote:I've been curious about this, too... I wonder if some people will take minimum characters now and just go for numbers? However, the bonuses from a general and BSB in a combat unit are probably too good to pass up for many...

A lot of people have been talking about the exact opposite. Goblin units with 10 characters in it, fielding half a dozen empire mages, etc. One of the biggest complaints about 8th ed. is that people are calling it "hero hammer" because they think games will get character heavy. Will this trend actually come to pass? We'll have to wait and see.

I do know that most armies will be very weak without a BSB. A high Ld general is also a serious advantage. Putting him on a monster gives him 18" Ld range, but it also makes him a target so it'll be interesting if people do this.

I wonder if it would be worth it for HE to field a killy prince than a archmage? Though I'd take Teclis because he is really good with the new magic rules.

Empire characters are designed for survivability. A templar grandmaster comes stock with a 1+ armor save, and all the other characters can get one except for wizards, who have to settle for a 4+ ward.

In fact, empire characters have now gotten better because so many of our items now have differently named equivalents (for the same points value) in the common list. I can take a suit of full plate armor that lets you re-roll your 1+ (with a barded warhorse and a shield) and then take the dawnstone, a talisman with the same effect, for somebody's mundane suit of plate. I can take 2 4+ ward saves, plus another one if I'm willing to settle for heavy armor on somebody (ignoring the pope wagon).

Unfortunately, barring something like the mindrazor or a really gribbly magic weapon (or popping the speculum on steve the bloodthirster), my poor little s4 dudes still don't ever kill anything. So, status quo for me.

look at a tomb king's stats, he'll be fine. Vampires better wear armor or turn into a freaking bat.

I wonder how well Chaos Lords with Axes of Khorne and Juggernauts will do...
/panic

I run a combat lord with the chaos runesword. Probably the best magic weapon in the chaos list. When he's in combat with grunts, he's probably killing 3-4 models a turn.

My DE characters are holding up just fine. I had my BSB beat an a unit of 10 dwarf quarrelers by himself (then again his entire unit was killed before he got into combat).

I think the key for armies with expensive characters will be survivability.

I pretty much only give my lizardmen characters either the armor that gives a 4+ ward or the talisman that does.. Surviving > magic weapons when you can be S7 with a great weapon