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Hello everybody! This is my first time posting here. I thought I might start by asking you fine folks for your input on an ideas I have (Hopefully this is the correct forum for this topic).

I mostly do Fantasy and focus more on the modeling then the actual playing. In spite of this I've been wanting to make my own Space Marine Chapter for some time now. I have two factors I'm working with in my designs. Firstly it is going to be an all plastic army. I've already converted a plastic Chaplain, Techmarine and Librarian to this end. The second factor is the one which I need help with. One of the themes of my Chapter is going to be that they specialize with operating in a vacuum. Not only does this mean back story wise that they have lots of Zero-G combat training but every single model has a helmet on :p

This is where I have a few problems with my theme. I need to know what equipment would work while clinging to the side of an enemy starship or assaulting a base on an airless asteroid. Obviously any sort of ground vehicle would just spin it's wheels and be useless. What about Land Speeder anti-grav tech though? Would flamers be of any use in space and do jump packs require air intake to function? Also what could I do for vac-sealed plastic Scouts? I was thinking the Kasrkin Storm Troopers would have been perfect if they weren't metal. I suppose I could just put regular helmeted space marine heads on scout bodies but that seems somehow lame. :/

Jump packs can be modified to use gas instead of whatever they use no so they can be used in a vaccum.

Land Speeders need to be near the ground to use the anti-grav systems so i don't think it would work.

Flamers probably wouldn't work in a vaccum but they would be used in storming a space ship/asteroid.

Scouts probably could be fully suited and fitted with air tanks for vaccum/dangerous atmospheric evironments.

I doubt the chapter would have many vehicles because of the environment but they would have more thunderhawks and pilots to make up for it.

Also i would have thought having a helmet on would be common sense IMO because even terminator armour is pointless if someone can just shoot you in the face.

purplefood wrote:Jump packs can be modified to use gas instead of whatever they use no so they can be used in a vaccum.

Land Speeders need to be near the ground to use the anti-grav systems so i don't think it would work.

Flamers probably wouldn't work in a vaccum but they would be used in storming a space ship/asteroid.

Scouts probably could be fully suited and fitted with air tanks for vaccum/dangerous atmospheric evironments.

I doubt the chapter would have many vehicles because of the environment but they would have more thunderhawks and pilots to make up for it.

Also i would have thought having a helmet on would be common sense IMO because even terminator armour is pointless if someone can just shoot you in the face.

Thanks for the quick reply. The 40k wiki didn't specify a lot of these things. I completely agree about the helmet issue. It's just kind of silly for people not to be wearing them. I just have an extra fluff reason for everyone to have them on. I suppose now I need to figure out an effective army build that doesn't use any vehicles. What really troubles me is the idea of not using any flamers o_O

PS. I was also thinking in this chapter that women who prove themselves on recruitment worlds would be brought on as like ship's crew (As all Space Marines are male as I understand it). Are there any human female models other then scary battle nuns out there? I didn't see any women IG to use for this :(

Most people make their own but there might be some 3rd party models out there.
You couldn't use flamers outside but as i said storming inside a ship they would definately be used.

If you're up for it using Deathwing or Grimnarwing could help because they can have an all deepstriking terminator army which could represent them dropping into the battlefield and give you extra survibility due to terminator armour also terminator armour is widely used by SM for boarding actions but you would need to go Da or SW for that but you could make them look normal in colour and badges etc and only use the codex.

Oh well. The female models would be in support roles and not actually directly in the battle so it's not a big deal. It would only be a fluff thing really. I think I'll go ahead and use your flamer idea. I'll just have to put bolt guns on their belts. They could switch weapons once inside an enemy base or whatever. As for the all deepstriking terminator army I'll have to look into that more. I'm thinking I would prefer an army that isn't so heavy points wise. Being a fantasy player I'm only planning on having this one 40k army. So I want them to be fairly versatile.

Ok then you might want to ask around in the tactics forum then for advice about your lack of tanks in fluff but make sure you stress the importance of fluff if that's what you're after because otherwise they'll just tell you to get some tanks.

Thanks again. I'll go over there and ask around after doing a little more research. I might be able to do something along the lines of the Orbital Assault Force sample army they give on the GW website. ^_^
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=400028&pIndex=1&aId=9600027&start=2

yeah, drop pods as boarding torpedos, dreadnoughts would work (extra clanky magnets on the feet maybe?) terminators would work since they were originally designed for hard radiation work.

I think your best bet is a drop pod force with maybe some storm raven support if you want to use the blood angels rules. Other ways to incorporate things could be "Heavy EVA Suits" (land speeders), Up Gunned Dreadnoughts with magnetic treads (predators) and so on and so forth.

Well flamers could work fine in space. As people do we currently do when burning underwater, all you need to do is carry a tank of oxygen and combine this with the fuel when you fire. As promethium burns when it comes into contact with air, it's possible they would spray a stream of oxygen from the flamer then spray the promethium into it.

All SM verhicles would work fine on a planet with no atmosphere so would be of some use. A lot of airless planets would still have enough gravity for them to be of use. I imagine the treads and feet of the vehicles would probably have some kind of extra grip added such as spikes to keep them attached to the ground.

Landspeeders would do fine in space. They still have engines to push them forward and they don't lose the anitigravity systems. If SM can use them to deepstrike in from the sky they can probably be used in space.

For the SM themselves, Power armour already has all the needed equipment for battles in a vaccuum. It can keep a SM alive in space for a very long time already.

Sgt_Scruffy wrote:yeah, drop pods as boarding torpedos, dreadnoughts would work (extra clanky magnets on the feet maybe?) terminators would work since they were originally designed for hard radiation work.

I think your best bet is a drop pod force with maybe some storm raven support if you want to use the blood angels rules. Other ways to incorporate things could be "Heavy EVA Suits" (land speeders), Up Gunned Dreadnoughts with magnetic treads (predators) and so on and so forth.

I do like the idea of Boarding Pods. I'm not really sure what rule set would work best for this. I haven't even looked at the Blood Angels yet..... :/

4M2A wrote:Well flamers could work fine in space. As people do we currently do when burning underwater, all you need to do is carry a tank of oxygen and combine this with the fuel when you fire. As promethium burns when it comes into contact with air, it's possible they would spray a stream of oxygen from the flamer then spray the promethium into it.

hmmm interesting idea. I hadn't considered that. It might just work. Why didn't they cover important things like this in my physics classes?!

4M2A wrote:All SM verhicles would work fine on a planet with no atmosphere so would be of some use. A lot of airless planets would still have enough gravity for them to be of use. I imagine the treads and feet of the vehicles would probably have some kind of extra grip added such as spikes to keep them attached to the ground.

Landspeeders would do fine in space. They still have engines to push them forward and they don't lose the anitigravity systems. If SM can use them to deepstrike in from the sky they can probably be used in space.

While tracked and wheeled vehicles could be used in a moon buggy style they'd be useless in Zero-G. What I'd really like to know is how does this anti-grav tech work. If I could trick out a "Land" Speeder with maneuvering thrusters that might be handy.

4M2A wrote:For the SM themselves, Power armour already has all the needed equipment for battles in a vaccuum. It can keep a SM alive in space for a very long time already.

As you say Power (and Term) Armor are easy enough to incorporate (As long as the helmets are on). I still like the idea of having Scouts in unpowered EVA suits if I can figure out how to model them. Any chance of plastic Storm Troopers any time soon?

As to helmetless space marines(not entirely necessary here, but fluff needed to be known in this thread) Power Armor incorporates a Small force field generator in the gorget that traps air within it and protects the head, this is how a Helmetless captain runs around the battlefield without using his face as a Bullet catcher, or operates in a very hostile environment/space without a helmet.

Scouts are beyond unnecessary in a Space assault force. Besides the general survivability issue; there would be little cover for them to Snipe from/use to infiltrate, and Bolter/BP+CCW scouts are superflous compared to fully PA Marines.

All that said, just because a force specializes in Space combat does not mean that they will not be called upon for more standard Mission roles. While mostly a boarding Force, they will very likely still be a Planetary assault force(especially if you go for an all Drop pod list)

Actually, according to fluff you aren't going to have any major problems.

Almost all space marine equipment is designed to work in space. Their armor has magnetized boots, they have special rounds designed for zero g vaccums, flamers DO work in space, they burn promethium not oxygen, and jump packs can be converted to work just fine..

As for vehicles...your theme kind of implies limited vehicles. Why would you use a land raider to invade a ship? Or a land speeder? If you are trying to be thematic focus on terminators (designed for boarding actions) and tactical squads. Meltas and Power Fists for bypassing bulkheads, flamers for clearing out rooms. Scouts aren't very useful in these types of situations either. Use boarding pods and torpedoes (works like drop pods). Focus on urban style close quarters combat.

You don't have to make a zero g version of everything the the SM codex. You are choosing a more limited focus, and thus have a more limited equipment choice. No artillery or heavy armor, but lots of heavy troops focused on urban style warfare.

On top of that, does your chapter not HAVE ground forces, or just not specialize in them? If they have them than you still have an excuse for scouts and armor, it just isn't your chapters focus.

Kommissar Kel wrote:As to helmetless space marines(not entirely necessary here, but fluff needed to be known in this thread) Power Armor incorporates a Small force field generator in the gorget that traps air within it and protects the head, this is how a Helmetless captain runs around the battlefield without using his face as a Bullet catcher, or operates in a very hostile environment/space without a helmet.

So that's how they justify it. Well I'm still going for an all helmeted army. Having a force field running nonstop would be a waste of power... and it just looks better imo.

Kommissar Kel wrote:Scouts are beyond unnecessary in a Space assault force. Besides the general survivability issue; there would be little cover for them to Snipe from/use to infiltrate, and Bolter/BP+CCW scouts are superflous compared to fully PA Marines.

All that said, just because a force specializes in Space combat does not mean that they will not be called upon for more standard Mission roles. While mostly a boarding Force, they will very likely still be a Planetary assault force(especially if you go for an all Drop pod list)

You're probably right about the Scouts. I'm not really sure how to build an effective army list for 40k. I figured they'd be good to have but I didn't know.

I would suggest Elysian respirator heads for scouts
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Imperial_Guard/Elysian_Drop_Troops/ELYSIAN-LASCUTTERS-AND-SCANNER.html (they are avaialbe to buy separately but I didn't link to that because it's a rubbish picture)



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riplikash wrote: flamers DO work in space, they burn promethium not oxygen

Normal flamers don't burn oxygen - they burn a fuel. Like promethium. To burn anything you need oxygen present.

I'm pretty sure there's no fluff stating that promethium contains it's own oxidiser.

To burn anything you need oxygen present.

riplikash wrote:Actually, according to fluff you aren't going to have any major problems.

Almost all space marine equipment is designed to work in space. Their armor has magnetized boots, they have special rounds designed for zero g vaccums, flamers DO work in space, they burn promethium not oxygen, and jump packs can be converted to work just fine..

Awesome. This is the kind of information I was after.

riplikash wrote:As for vehicles...your theme kind of implies limited vehicles. Why would you use a land raider to invade a ship? Or a land speeder? If you are trying to be thematic focus on terminators (designed for boarding actions) and tactical squads. Meltas and Power Fists for bypassing bulkheads, flamers for clearing out rooms. Scouts aren't very useful in these types of situations either. Use boarding pods and torpedoes (works like drop pods). Focus on urban style close quarters combat.

You don't have to make a zero g version of everything the the SM codex. You are choosing a more limited focus, and thus have a more limited equipment choice. No artillery or heavy armor, but lots of heavy troops focused on urban style warfare.

On top of that, does your chapter not HAVE ground forces, or just not specialize in them? If they have them than you still have an excuse for scouts and armor, it just isn't your chapters focus.

Likening this Chapter's tactics to urban combat is a handy way of looking at it. The main reason I was thinking about Land Raiders is to have some small space fighters (There don't seem to be any X-wings for me to use). I would just have to custom build an enclosed cockpit. While all Chapters need to have some versatility in deployment options I want to have a heavy focus. Otherwise there wouldn't be much point in having a theme at all.


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Scott-S6 wrote:I would suggest Elysian respirator heads for scouts
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Imperial_Guard/Elysian_Drop_Troops/ELYSIAN-LASCUTTERS-AND-SCANNER.html (they are avaialbe to buy separately but I didn't link to that because it's a rubbish picture)

Sweet. I've never seen those before. I like the breather mask looking faceplate.

riplikash wrote:You actually don't. Burning oxygen (combustion) is the most COMMON chemical burning reaction we see, but it is not the only one.

Indeed. Going to have to be careful in a heavy methane atmosphere ^_^

Riplikash the reaction of combustions requires oxygen and fuel to occur. Whe we burn petrol or wood we still need oxygen. The way to burn in an environment without oxygen is just to provide your own. It's similar to some tools work underwater.

4M2A wrote:Riplikash the reaction of combustions requires oxygen and fuel to occur. Whe we burn petrol or wood we still need oxygen. The way to burn in an environment without oxygen is just to provide your own. It's similar to some tools work underwater.

You are entirely correct, which is why I said combustion was the most common chemical burn reaction we see today. But it is not the only burn reaction.

Though I do agree that providing an oxidizing agent is most likely the way 'space flamers' would work.

Have you got any fluff to say that promethium contains it's own oxidiser or uses a reaction other than regular combustion?

To get around not getting vehicles take devastators and / or Dreadnoughts And, just for fun, you can put your troops in drop pods and say that they launch the pods from their ship, to the ship your trying to board, they "walk" out, and try to cut their way in with a melta or two. Would make a neat senerio. Bikers, you can always say that they ramped out of a hole in your ship to a hole in a enemy ship.

I would buy Stormtrooper models, and use them as Scouts. The fully carapace-ed Stormies look more like zero-g troops than generic scouts.

As mentioned above, Jet Packs would be fine. I would suggest giving your Landspeeders some modification to make them enclosed...the propulsion wouldn't be a terrible fix for the Chapter's Techmarines.

There is ammunition in Dark Heresy specifically for use in the vacuum of space (Void Rounds). I imagine the Imperium can do this for Bolters.

IIRC the Land Speeders can only operate on the planet because it's engines only work in the magnetic fields.Might be wrong.

IvanTih wrote:IIRC the Land Speeders can only operate on the planet because it's engines only work in the magnetic fields.Might be wrong.

Make Land Speeders with even simple propulsion engines...and there you go.

If they are in space the anti gravity engine isn't needed so it doesn't matter if it doesn't work. They can still have normal engines for movement.