Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Ok I've been lurking around here for a while now just reading people posts and commenting occasionally when I feel I have something valid to say.

In that time there have been a few occasions when somebody has said something which really burns a nerve. You know when you hit one of those comment that makes the viens in your neck stick out and makes you dream of being able to burn them as a heretic.

The main source of these irritations seems to come from those gamers who were introduced to the whole war gaming community by pc games like Dawn of War.

Not to say that all people who get into war gaming through computer games are evil.

But there seems to be a growing group of people out there who seem to have forgotten or were never told that war gaming is a hobby which at one time had a sense of community.

I came into this particular little world with understanding that fair play and sportsmanship were more important than winning. Tournaments are different as there is no point entering one if you don't intend to actually try to win.

I just don't understand what has happened.

Has theft of models justified by your opponent making mistakes become the norm? Is being an a**hole now a required skill? Is sportsmanship dead?

Has GW's policy of cash over quality led to this or is it just that I am out of touch and that the world has changed?

If anybody else out there has anything they want to add or correct my view on the world let me know.

You may find part of the answer here (NSFW):

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/

I have not really seen many threads that could have lead to this conclusion

Becoming a jerk is never a requirement and it's likely that those people would be jerks even without the hobby, however flawed that logic sounds.

I think sportsmanship is still alive. Of all the horror threads I've seen about models being smashed, psycho kids, sore losers, cheaters, TFGs, the unclean and pushy red shirts; I've yet to actually come accross any at the local GW I play at. Although I did move from the old one due to the amount of kids increasing way too much (way too many 10-12 year old Ultrasmurf players), but that was mostly because there wasn't the space for it (one 4x4 table basically).

I'm hoping it is more of a minority than the majority, as usual the good is left as is, while the bad is hyped up to gather sympathy.

I think that most of it is age. I get the impressions most of the people fitting the description you are providing are younger. Empowered by anonymity they mouth off more. Easier to be more open with their views and feelings when its words on a screen than when standing in front of some dude covered in tats and 6'4".

Slinky wrote:You may find part of the answer here (NSFW):

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/

Ah science has the answer.

But back on topic, I know that it is only a small minority but these idiots seem to be able to maintain this attitude of "I right because I am me".

In the past war games were shunned by the mainstream because they were seen to be quite geeky, but things have changed the end result being we have the high school mentality taking over.

In no small part this has to come from companies like GW alienating the older gamers in preference for the younger generation of gamers who invariably have more money and less sense. If things don't change I for one will be forced to have to rethink my participation in the hobby.

My local GW has already become a "no go" area as I am now rapidly approaching 30 (any faster and I'll break the sound barrier), and with the way parents look at me, as I try to get through a game with their rugrats running wild around the store, makes me feel like I'm doing something wrong by being there.

I guess the point I am trying to get across is I am sick and tired of either being ignored by staff whilst I am in store, because they are too busy dealing with some 12 yr olds temper tantrum because they just got tabled, or abused by some moronic 14 yr old with a keyboard and some basic typing skills whilst trying to have an informed and intelligent discussion online, with people who are supposed to share in a hobby I enjoy.

Well, I haven't seen anything like what your talking about down at my store and I have yet to see a thread which talks about these things when the poster has come to blows/stolen models/broken models/cheated and said it in the post. Now, I'm hopefully not one of said moronic 14 year olds, but concerning sportsmanship, everyone is suseptible to "the face" every now and then though it does take a very childish person to act like a 5 year old. It is anoying to have your game space choked with kids, but most seems to be nice and respectible. I definatly feel that the people your talking about are a very small minority.

Well then I'd say try to find a group of people around the same age and who also enjoy the game and try not to pity the idiots too much as they're about as far as they'll make it in life.

Video games went the same way; try playing an online game with voice chat and not have some 13 year old American kid sound like a Greater Daemon of Khorne locked in a room full of kittens.

Honestly it would be great if we could stop every annoyance in the world. But, really it's impossible. Putting up with it or avoiding it is the only option unfortunately.

You know, the owner of my local FLGS used to claim kids as the target demographic, but had to grudgingly admit it just was not the case in recent years. He said, unlike the common perception of kids and disposable income you hear abotu in the wargaming industry/community, his store (and bread & butter) was in vast majority "old farts like me". I dunno if that is an outlier of his store an dhow he ran/marketed it, or what. But it is most assuredly true. I think some of it is due to loyalty to his store. A lot of my opponents have grown up in the store, very literally. I've played some of these same characters for more then ten years now, begining in their high school years and now some of them have degrees and families (and divorces, sad to say) of their own.

We dont GET many idiot children. Mostly because kids come in, sense a more mature crowd that is less tolerant of shenanigans and tantrums. We are willing to help and teach new gamers and always encourage it, but a lot of us are paretns as well and dont take any guff off of our own youngsters; so why would we take it off someone elses?

Sometimes, Justi., thats what you get in a store. I understand GW stores to be particularly bad about it, which makes sense given their business model. However, you can certainly make your own gaming group and set up to go to the store en masse, or go someplace else. Dakka would be a goo start, over in the find a game forum. I have used that to game in 7 states and 4 continents. Give it a go, you might find some people nearby.

I agree on your point of view. I have all the games of Dawn of waar (except DOW 2), which I bought after I was in the hobby for about 3 years. When playing those DOW games and when your in the chat room, I encountered a lot of young a***holes impleying they were the best and all. They say dumb things like "if my ork warboss can F*nger your SOB leader you can s*ck my d*ck" (real story.) when playing that game again after a long time, I decided to play in on those arguments and say they are dumb a*se b*tches and all. Once spend 1 and a half hour that way. I really hate that.

I've never been much of an online gamer to be honest, mostly because i've never really had internet access (currently at work). When I was younger lived with my parents who refused to let me have a line in my room or get wireless, when I was a student I was either too poor or too drunk.

When I started playing online round a frineds (CoD4) I was put off by the amount coming from the players. Don't get me wrong I swear with the best of them (there are a couple of my friends I haven't called by their given names in years) but always I try to sportsman like especially when dealing with strangers or people I don't know well.

Being a is hardly the kind of attitude that makes people want to play you again. Being anonymous doesn't gie you the right to be an

I've got all of the DoW games except 2 but I am in the process of upgrading my PC to a level to make online gaming more appealing and was hoping to play DoW2 online but i'm not sure if i'll bother from the sound of it.

Luckily I've not experience this kind of attitude from the people at my FLGS

There's bad apples in every bunch, and you're sure to remember biting into a worm more vividly than biting into an apple.

Yeah, there's a lot of who wargame, and you're probably right that when you find one who came from online gaming, they're more likely to be an even bigger one. I'd say it's a combination of the aforementioned highly scientifical equation and the fact that a good majority of people playing online games have little to no redeeming social qualities to start with.

Like griz said though, if you enjoy playing, there's no reason to let them dissuade you from it. My area seems particularly bad as far as community goes, but I don't let that stop me. The former local GW was a munchkin farm to be avoided at all costs when school was out, and the only LGS has a somewhat older crowd, but they're all people who have been gaming there for years, and it's pretty much a TFG training centre. Luckily I managed to find a few guys who also quickly tired of the local stinkbox, and now game with them every week.

So yeah, you may have to sift through a lot of , but there are people who make it worthwhile, and that's far more rewarding than simply giving in to the @$$hat brigade.

GW's prices play a large role in what you are speaking of.

Age is a factor as well, as has been said.

I wonder how much of the complaint is based off of 'you're not playing like I want to, thus are a bad person'.

I don't mind how they play. it's just what they say all the time, That makes me angry

Scrazza you hit the nail on the head

ahh, thank you!