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Here is my list that I am considering taking to this years fantasy 'ARD BOYZ. All comments and criticisms are welcome. I would like to make this list as tight as possible.


Wizard Lord, level 4, rod of power – 240 (Lore of Life)

Captain of the Empire, battle standard bearer, armour of meteoric iron, sword of battle – 120

Warrior Priest, two-handed hammer, heavy armour, shield – 100

Warrior Priest, two-handed hammer, heavy armour, shield – 100

Master Engineer – 65

Master Engineer – 65

Master Engineer – 65

30x Swordsman, musician, standard bearer – 195
Detachments:
15x Halberdiers – 75
15x Halberdiers – 75

30x Swordsman, musician, standard bearer – 195
Detachments:
15x Halberdiers – 75
15x Halberdiers – 75

10x Knightly Orders, musician, standard bearer – 254

Great Cannon – 100

Great Cannon – 100

Great Cannon – 100

Great Cannon – 100

Mortar – 75

Mortar – 75

Mortar – 75

Mortar – 75

Steam Tank – 300

Steam Tank – 300

Total: 2999

Again, please let me know what you think. Thanks.

I have yet to really verify this and could be wrong...but, from what i've heard detachments don't count towards core points. So that would only be 644 out of 750 pts needed. The codex says det's dont count towards min core choices so I assume this is where they're saying they wouldn't count towards core % value.

This is just what i've heard and have not yet had a chance to read 8th ed yet. So if this is true it kinda busts your list.

Thank god, take out some of those cannons, you! The blood god demands more soldiers and less steam tanks

You have put way too much into destroying enemy units and not enough into ensuring that you yourself have units left when the dust clears. 3 units? At 3000 points? I love the staties regiments and the obvious intent to bolster them with priests, but maybe consider making them 40 strong?. Since the idea of multiple stanks drives me into an apoplectic rage, it's probably just right for ard boyz. You can do without the fourth cannon, 3 are plenty. 4 mortars are probably not excessive, though. Maybe find a way to put a character in the knights? Lastly, when the wizard lord fails a dispel attempt, you're dropping from +4 to +1 for the rest of the turn...yuck! Maybe change one priest to a L2 wizzie? You still have the BSB to lead a regiment, and you gain a +2 dispeller, not to mention any offensive magical potential he brings (starting with access to a second lore).

Since this is a list for 'Ard Boyz I hardly see how dropping a Steam Tank is a good idea. Those things are absolute monsters now capable of first turn charges with 11 D3 stregth 6 attacks. Perhaps four cannons isn't needed, but it doesn't seem like a bad call at all. I don't see anyone providing good reasons on why to switch anything. This is for 'Ard Boyz a non comp, super cheese event naturaly he should bring a super cheesy list. So far only march10K has put any reason to his logic, though I don't agree with him.

I am sorry to say my only experiance with Empire comes from matches against them and I don't actually play myself, however, I know from experiance that the Steam Tank can wreck whole units, with little or no significant retaliation. The multatudes of war machines allow the empire to wether through my Storm banner and kill off key things, even under it's effects. With four cannons and mortars, two of each should be able to fire unmolested statisticly.

The FAQ doesn't say anything about it, and the empire book says that detachments don't count as core units.

The BRB specifies that anything that doesn't count for minimum core units also doesn't count for minimum core points. Ergo, detachments are now effectively a special choice.

Crap, IMO, but there you go.

Can you please provide a page number for that?

I cannot, as I don't own the book. I'm quite confident, though.

In the empire book (if that's what you mean) it's the second bullet point on page 38 in the second column under "detachments"

I did not see that anywhere in the book, as I DO have one. Core choices no longer matter, just as special and rare chioces don't. Everything now is done by percentages and until I see a rule otherwise, units like detachments and giant rats DO still count towards your core alotment.

Well detachments do not count as a core choice, but they are taken as an add-on to the parent unit. The Empire book was written in the old context of unit choices, not on percentages. The statement about the detachments not counting towards core choices is in relation to this because they are not their own units.

So, the detachment is comparable to a unit upgrade, not a unit onto its self, as the points would count together towards the core percentage as one unit.

Is it legal? Wasnt there something in the new rules that said you can't take more than 3 of the same thing? (i.e. one too many cannons & morters?)

Also what are your core choices? Halberds & Swordsmen? thats 690? or does something else count as troops?

What do the engineers do?

Btw the list scares me, I got high elves, but I don't see how to deal with all those warmachines, plus the tanks. And you have more infantry that I have total models.

.

The legality of such a list is dependent on wether or not the detachments count as core. The two state troop blocks, and the knights are all core and Sephiroth should have put that up to help the confusion, but alas. I have found no such rule changing the "do not count as core choices" to anything that would be effective in 8th edition. And until someone does, detachments are a part of the 25% minimum core alotment.

To answer you question Sazzlefrats, yes you cannot take 3 more then three of the same special and 2 of the same rare at lower points games. At 3000 point+ you are allowed 6 of the same special and 4 of the same rare.

I bet the detachments count as core. I'll assume they are, I have no comments to add to the list, it looks mean.

What do th engineers do?

They help out the war machines and now with the new FAQ can 'baby-sit' multiple machines helping out when needed. If I remember correctly they let them re-roll the artillery dice used in the black powder war machines, the cannons and mortars, but can't be used for the cannon's bounce.

if the army book states that "Detachments do not count towards minimum core choice." then they do not count towards your minimum 25%.

Warhounds for warriors have the same issue. As do a few entries in Vampire Counts.

Otherwise I could spam a few armies with a hundred and fifty WarHounds and still not have any other core units. Break them into units of 5 and I can ridirect you until the cows come home.

I think that the list is fairly formidable. However the one real weakness I see is a lack of ability to deal with scouts and fast cav. Even with a good Artillery Hill you are going to have difficulty stopping multiple eagles or fast cav from getting into your warmachines quickly. If you expend your warmachines shots on scouts and fast cav then the enemies blocks will be in your craw before you can work off the ranks that your arty is designed to do.

I would maybe redeploy two of those attachments as xbows or gunners. (which as detachments do not count towards any % in your army let alone core. Remember that Army book trumps BRB )

Your Steam tanks will help but do you really want them chasing eagles down instead of getting into the enemies blocks and smashing face?

Oh yea almost forgot... what are you going to do against ambushers such as Beastmen or WOC with Wulfrik?

Units which say they do not count towards your core choice do not count towards your min core % as discussed in this thread. A page number regarding this is also mentioned in it.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/305264.page

Here is a revised version of the list. I traded out the state troops for more knights. I am now taking three units of knights and putting the characters in them. I have 27 points left over and I am not sure what to do with them. I am thinking about giving the wizard a horse so that he can join the knights.As always comments and criticisms are welcome.

Here is the list:


Wizard Lord, level 4, rod of power – 240 (Lore of Life)

Captain of the Empire, battle standard bearer, armour of meteoric iron, sword of battle, warhorse, barded – 134

Warrior Priest, extra close-combat weapon, heavy armour, shield, warhorse, barded – 114

Warrior Priest, extra close-combat weapon, heavy armour, shield, warhorse, barded – 114

Warrior Priest, extra close-combat weapon, heavy armour, shield, warhorse, barded – 114

Master Engineer – 65

Master Engineer – 65

Master Engineer – 65

10x Knightly Orders, musician, standard bearer – 254

10x Knightly Orders, musician, standard bearer – 254

10x Knightly Orders, musician, standard bearer – 254

Great Cannon – 100

Great Cannon – 100

Great Cannon – 100

Great Cannon – 100

Mortar – 75

Mortar – 75

Mortar – 75

Mortar – 75

Steam Tank – 300

Steam Tank – 300

Total: 2973

I think that you need infantry in 8th. for example what happens if the scenario has break points? your break point is 3 and you have 5 fortitude. that means all I need to do is kill 20 knights and I win. Not too hard to do eh?

Here is what I am thinking of... although the runefang on the general is probably not ideal and will be changed.

The plan here is to use your blocks to protect most of your arty while the fast cav slows the enemy down and the knights and stank protect the flanks. if done right you will whittle down the enemy with arty, magic and shooting. Take the charge on the swordsmen and counter with the knights and stank. your break point here is loosing 4 units before you auto loose.

Arch Lector of Sigmar
1 War Altar
1 Mace of Helstrum

General of the Empire (General; Hand Weapon; Full Plate Armor; Shield)
1 Runefang

Wizard Lord
1 Shroud of Magnus


1 Captain of the Empire (Battle Standard Bearer)
1 Armor of Meteoric Iron
1 The Crimson Amulet

Warrior Priest of Sigmar Heavy Armour Shield
1 Warhorse
1 Sword of Might
1 Aldred's Casket of Sorcery

Warrior Priest of Sigmar Heavy Armour; Shield
1 Sword of Power

Master Engineer Repeater Pistol

29 Swordsmen FC

32 Swordsmen FC

Knights x10 std, music

10 Crossbowmen std, mus

10 Handgunners std, mus

1 Great Cannon

1 Great Cannon

1 Mortar

1 Steam Tank


5 Pistoliers


5 Pistoliers


1 Helstorm Rocket Battery


Total Roster Cost: 3000

For Break Point I have 6 Fortitude a General (2), BSB (1), and three standards (3), total (6), four of which have 1+ armor save. That gives me 3 till I lose, and I am confident that I can take the enemy down by enough before they take me down. For example my typical Skaven Horde opponent has only 6 in his army, and that is only protected by wounds. Wounds, which the Steam Tanks go nom, nom, nom. Usually I take those units out in two turns, three at the most.

oops did not catch the BSB in there.....

Yeah, I feel that I'm fine in break point and any of the mission types for that matter.

If you are going to field Knights, I think you'll need 12. One casualty to lose your rank-busting ability seems fragile.

Warriors priests over lvl 2 wizards? eh, I think the Wizards will be stronger.

Did you factor in that there are characters in the Knight units? Plus with the Wizard Lord's ability to bring them back.

How are Lvl 2 Wizards more powerful? The Priests can make their units unbreakable, auto give hatred, the priest can heal characters, AND the give each a dispell dice.

I'm not trying to shoot all these ideas down, but I am trying to make the best list that I can take. At 'Ard Boyz you see super crazy lists, as their isn't any comp, and I see no reason to hold back. Around here we play the super competitive builds even in firendly games, so I need to take the best to 'Ard Boyz.

With no infantry, steadfast will be your downfall...You'll clip some wounds AND strip rank AND get the +1 bonus on the charge, almost certainly win that round of combat...and the enemy will roll on unmodified leadership. After that, unless you've pulled off simultaneous charges into two facings, they'll reform to face you, regaining their rank bonus AND supporting attacks. You, meanwhile, have lost your lance bonus. You lose. If you have pulled off simultaneous charges by twenty knights against one enemy unit, well, no kidding, you've committed 2/3 of your troops against one unit. Of course you'll probably eventually win that fight...but what is the rest of his army doing while you grind him down? He'll continue to be steadfast until you get him down to two ranks...you can't afford to commit twenty knights for 2+ turns in order to destroy one enemy troops block.

Units of ranked up kaniggits are great flank chargers, and they pack a mean punch on the charge...they will probably kill enough stuff to break a unit, but only if that unit isn't steadfast. You need a unit with 4 ranks to be in the same combat as the knights, or all the CR in the world won't modify their LD for that panic test. Infantry and knights work wonders together, but infantry alone works a lot better, especially with the detachment system (where you provide your own supporting flank charge), than knights alone does.

So after receiving some c&c, here is what I have now:


Wizard Lord, level 4, rod of power – 240 (Lore of Life)

Captain of the Empire, battle standard bearer, armour of meteoric iron, sword of battle – 115

Warrior Priest, extra close-combat weapon, heavy armour, shield, warhorse, barded – 114

Warrior Priest, extra close-combat weapon, heavy armour, shield, warhorse, barded – 114

Warrior Priest, extra close-combat weapon, heavy armour, shield – 100

Master Engineer – 65

Master Engineer – 65

Master Engineer – 65

10x Knightly Orders, musician, standard bearer – 254

10x Knightly Orders, musician, standard bearer – 254

47x Halberdiers, shields, musician, standard bearer – 294

Great Cannon – 100

Great Cannon – 100

Great Cannon – 100

Great Cannon – 100

Mortar – 75

Mortar – 75

Mortar – 75

Mortar – 75

Steam Tank – 300

Steam Tank – 300

Total: 2980

I still have 20 points left that I am not sure what to do with. I added the large block of infantry so that I could prevent steadfast. Let me know what you think.

hmmm the 4 mortars would certainly give my army idea a serious problem, the cannons not so worried about. stanks maybe a problem depends...

I have seen that the new empire FAQ took the magic phase paragraph out of the steam tanks rules. I am still positive that the steam tank isl worth taking. I think that it was more of a way to balance it. I think that we can use it to our advantage, as we are now allowed to heal the tanks with the lore of life spells. Also this allows us to buff them as well. I will still be taking two steam tanks in my army and think that they should still be taken.

Also, does anyone have anything for the new list that I posted. I answered the problem of steadfast units.

You cant heal or buff the stank, it still ignores all spell effects that dont have a strength value.

that piece of the rules was not changed.