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What is a good basic setup?


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Or even good units.

Sanguinary priests should be top of your list. Give them jump packs but don't go overboard they don't need power weapons, you'll get tempted to throw them into the meat grinder with your assault troops, your best bet is to leave them behind when you send your troops into assault, as long as they are no more than 6 inches away your guys will still get feel no pain and your opponent will not throw all of cc attacks at them.

Take two assault squads, Mercer on here has schooled me well in the art of unit redundancy, remember if one unit is good two units are better. Personally I tool them up with 2 meltaguns. This means they can pop that transport and with your priest hanging around at the back they should survive any shooting thrown at them.

Next take a reclusiarch to lead your army, don't fall into the trap of taking a named IC unless you plan on doing a fluffy army (all saguinary guard or all death company). The reclusiarch will allow the squad he's with to re-roll to hit in close combat and if he's with the death company they re-roll to wound as well

Finally Death company (yes they are expensive and can't take objectives) these guys will draw all of your opponents attention. Just ask mercer, 120 shuriken catapult shots, 3 twin-linked bright lances, 2 fire prisms and 3 shuriken cannons to take down a 10 man death company and a reclusiarch. They tied up all his army's shooting for 2 turns before falling.

This is by no means the only way to do things or a complete list but it should give you a good idea of what to do.

I don't think its by any means an end all or be all manner to bring, but Ive had some strong success at 1k and 1500 games with two squads of jump assault with reclusiarchs or chaplains and priests. spatter around whichever odds and ends units you like for 'cool' factor and you got a pretty straight forward army with decent mobility and evasion that can hit like a mack truck in fisticuffs.

You can get away with taking named ics, just dont take MeFailston, as any psychic defense and youll be wishing you spent those 250 pts elsewhere, i find sanguinor almost always outperforms meph.

kill dem stunties wrote:You can get away with taking named ics, just dont take MeFailston, as any psychic defense and youll be wishing you spent those 250 pts elsewhere, i find sanguinor almost always outperforms meph.

I have found that most of the named IC's are over priced points wise for what they actually bring to the army your using. Especially when you can get similar results from unnamed IC's.

You dont get similar results to the sanguinor from anything, mini captaining a sarge, +1 attacks within 6, rerolling to hit and to wound vs enemy hq unit.

6 s6 power weapon attacks at i7 on the charge, with 2+ 3++ eternal warrior and fnp if you have a priest nearby like you should.

He can sweep a mob of battlewagon boyz boyz in 2-3 rounds of combat , granted theres a sanguinary priest standing nearby giving him fnp ... but who doesnt do that. Let alone how badly he slaughters hq units.

You could take a reclusiarch and save some points, but then you have to pile an assault squad + him into the same target the sanguinor will redmist by himself. You think a reclusiarch could solo ghazgkull?

No effin way, but sanguinor could let ghaz waagh, that only delays his death, next turn he starts to go down like a chump.

The sanguinor only allows re-rolls against 1 hq unit so once that's dead that's that rule pretty much useless.

2 - 3 turns to take out one mob of boyz is good? An assault squad kitted out correctly could do the same job in one.

For 255 points you could take an honour guard with chapter banner, jump packs and 4 plasma guns, the unit gets +1 attack has feel no pain and can unleash enough plasma death to take ghazgull down. In my opinion this is better all round unit.

Besides why would you want to have one big target for your opponents shooting when you could spread those points round and make the rest of your army that bit tougher.

Mag
Justicar is giving good advice.

This is my blood angels build and some of the reasoning. hope it helps.

2 Librarians jump pack unleash rage blood lance
(blood angels hqs are as a rule good fighters but way overpriced. the librarian is reasonably costed gives you a psychic hood and brings a power that can buff an already nasty close assault unit. IMO unleash rage is the best psychic power for this guy.)

2 or 3 sanguinary priests jump pack power weapon
(sanguinary priests or novitiates are mandatory. its been a while since I played this list since then Ive come to believe that an honor guard squad is a better buy bc the sanguinary novitiate is pretty much the same thing and comes with the squad. he cant take a power weapon but its the furious charge and feel no pain that counts. anyway if you do run priests rather than novitiates I believe in putting them in close combat just because its good to use the full capability of all your units. hes a good fighter so let him do his thing. yeah he'll die. marines do that )

4 assault squads jump packs meltaguns storm shield/combi melta on the sergeant
(assault marines are better than tacticals for a boat load of reasons. more attacks more mobility bigger charge range can use descent of angels etc. descent of angels is one of the best things in your codex. I believe in giving everyone a jump pack so that the whole army can use this rule. most forces when they stay in reserve have to deal with alot of randomness and they can effectively lose the game because of a few bad scatter rolls or because their units trickle in from reserve. descent of angels lets you stay off the board on turn 1 if you have to and show up in a reliable and controlled manner. Its good and I want everyone in the army to be able to use it. Except...)

3 land speeder squads 2 land speeders with multi meltas and heavy flamers in each.
(land speeders are awesome for so many reasons.... theyre cheap, flexible, lightning fast, they hit like a ton of bricks. yes theyre av 10 no biggie theyre still very resilient. compare to a land raider for a moment; you have to roll 4 times to kill either (hit penetrate cover damage table) for only one of those rolls (penetrate) is the land speeder any different at all. so a land speeder is 3/4 as resilient as a land raider. not bad. sometimes you die to bolter fire its true. its a game of controlled risk. IMO the benefits far outweight the fragility. then theres always the "kill them before they kill you" strategy.... after all av10 doesnt matter if all the badguys are dead. which is doable considering how hard these guys hit.)

Dont take mephiston hes an overpriced nothing ball. You can pwn noobs with him I guess but better players will just blast him to pieces with multi meltas plasma weapons lascannons etc. unless he wants to hide in cover all game I guess. Oh and Baal predators are also really really good I just kept them out bc I believe in going all armor or all infantry in order to deny your opponent full use of a whole category of their weapons. But its an awesome tank if your going to run armor run it.

Blood Angels are very strong. hope some of those ideas help.
AF

AbaddonFidelis wrote:Mag
Justicar is giving good advice.

4 assault squads jump packs meltaguns storm shield/combi melta on the sergeant

Thanks AF, Just a quick one though BA assault sgt's can't take combi weapons, sorry

oh yeah. sadness.

Heres my simple list of tactical advice for an aspiring BA commander:

1. Assault Marines >>> tactical marines. Also, Jump Pack AM's will always trump Rhino AM lists. Reason being you can get 2 special weps, you are just as mobile and don't have to worry about getting stunned or immobilized, and you can make rather large units (I love doing a priest, 10 AM's, and a libby w/ pack). These typically soak up a lot of anti-tank and weather it well given cover

2. Dreadnought spam. Autocannon dreads are great to spam, and furiosos are awesome if you intend to run stormravens

3. Death co. If you run a unit of DC PLEASE run them in a LR or Raven. This makes them far more mobile, controllable, and effective. Also, maximize them! Use at least 1 TH/PF in the unit. It sucks if they get tied up w/ some deff dreads only not to be able to take em down

4. Special Charecters. If you run any of em, you must make sure the list supports em. Sanguinor was built for a jump-heavy assault army, Dante was built to create deadly hit and run units, Meph is mean't to beast whatever he touches, Astorath sucks unless your trying for a DC heavy list...

Hope this helps some and gl!

Here is a list for you to have a look at it gives a good indicator of what you can do.

HQ

Reclusiarch - infernus pistol, jump pack, melta bombs 175

Elites

3x Sanguinary priest - bolt pistol, CCW, jump pack 225

Troops

Assault squad 10 man - 2x meltagun

Assault squad 10 man - 2x meltagun

Assault squad 10 man - 2x flamer

Assault squad 10 man - 2x flamer

Death company 6 man - thunder hammer, infernus pistol, power fist, jump packs

Total 1500

A reclusiarch will never take a slot over a librarian in my lists, psychic defense, unleash rage for rerolls (but on every turn of combat, not just the first), psychic defense, force weapon.

Also, taking death company without a transport = theyre not going to get to fight a single thing the entire game vs a half competant opponent. ( Theyll be chasing a land speeder or empty rhinos all game.)

Lastly to reiterate, sanguinor owns.

Here we go again lets pin all our hopes one model and forget about the rest of our army

And as for death company not being any use without a transport, chasing some worthless unit round all day. If you plan and deploy correctly they are going to be just as effective as any other unit. Besides the ammount of fire that is going to be poured into them to stop them from reaching you opponents lines is going to be more than enough to save your other units as they close in.

In short there is no valid reason to spend 275 points on one model that is more than likely going to get lascannon and plasma'd to death in his first turn, when the points would be better spent elsewhere.

If you have problems hiding 1 jump infantry model completely out of los then you have poor terrain at your gaming area. Sang has never died to anything but poor rolls against massed infantry fire, or cc after mauling a multiple units. if hes getting hit from long range by antitank weaponry, like said earlier you must have no terrain taller than 1" at your flgs ...

Its not pinning all your hopes on one unit, its knowing that one unit with a priest in tow can anchor an entire flank by himself or straight assasinate any enemy HQ.

As to deathcompany, no you cant deploy them a certain way to mitigate rage unless its deploying them inside a vehicle. They will chase useless units all game against a half competant opponent.

I'm sick of labouring the point here, at the end of the day it's personal preference. Do you want to a) buy an overpriced single model with good stats and some good rules, or b) use those points to upgrade all of your other units and produce a force that hits well with or without a super fluffy power buff.

Personally I wouldn't spend 275 points on a single model but, at the end of the day, it's up to the individual to find something that works for them.

*now departing circular argument hoping somebody can bring something new to the thread*

I'm normally against the named IC's, but I feel that Dante is really really good. His Deep strike is amazing. Justicar, have you used him? I'd like to hear a commander's thoughts, I've only been on the receiving end.

I've also heard Sang Guard w/ Chapter Banner is beast.

Deep strike with dante is good but you've still got to get him to turn up when he will do the most damage, a couple of bad reserve rolls and your stuck.

Sanguinary guard can be pretty good but again they attract a hell of a lot of attention during your opponents shooting, and with there only being 5 in a unit they can disappear really quickly.

Both of these units are good but cost a lot of points and if they get swamped by a horde army like nids they are gonna get mashed pretty quickly.

Personally I have found that your better off going for normal assault troops. Their ability to pack 2 special weapons and the larger squad sizes means you have a cheaper a potentially harder hitting unit. Add in a sanguinary priest and you've basically got a cheap death company which doesn't suffer from the minor drawback of rage.

Take two assault squads, Mercer on here has schooled me well in the art of unit redundancy, remember if one unit is good two units are better. Personally I tool them up with 2 meltaguns. This means they can pop that transport and with your priest hanging around at the back they should survive any shooting thrown at them.

By the way, if the Marines pop that transport, they eventually can charge in the cc phase.

A few points, 1st - I like Grim. Making over half my army fearless, has saved me several times. Also the added bonus of going first on the charge, most times, is a very nice bonus.

2nd - Even if your expensive named characters dies in the 2nd turn from mass Lascannon fires, that means your army is not being shot at. Every lascannon or Melta hot at my character that can not die in one hit, is one less shot at my tanks that can die in one hit.

3rd - Death Company in a Drop pod, can really mess up a battle plan. Drop them in the middle of the army, and watch as all fire is directed towards them. And unless they are a fast moving army, not all units will be able to get away from the Death Company's turn 2 assault.

Justicar Alaric wrote:Deep strike with dante is good but you've still got to get him to turn up when he will do the most damage, a couple of bad reserve rolls and your stuck.

If he is not out by turn 3, then something is terribly terribly wrong with that persons dice. Decent of Angels allows a reroll on failed reserve rolls.

I like running Dante with at least one group of Sanguinary Guard because you can take any objective you want simply by landing on it. By making them a troop it also frees up an elite spot too.

Sanguinor is beastly but only for higher point games IMO.

Librarian is usually my HQ choice cause of the beefy powers. A force weapon doesn't hurt matters either. And I'll take a Captain over a Reclusiarch unless I am taking Death Company in some way, shape, or form. I don't want a Reclursiarch/Chaplin unless I'm using him to his full strength, which to me is using his ability to make Death Company even more beastly than they already are.

Justicar and Kill Dem speak wisdom, though they disagree on finer points. 40 jump pack assault marines with either a lib or chap and 2-3 sanguinary priests is a great start to much face melting. I would further suggest 2 meltas + infernus pistol/PFist or 2 flamers + hand flamer/Pfist per squad. The meltas with Descent are absolutely lethal to vehicles. The flamers are for hordes you would rather thin out first- 3 templates will make a dent in most things. If you need to shave points, just drop the infernus/hand flamer.

I would also suggest not taking any vehicles in such a list. It makes target priority very difficult, especially in areas where mech is common, since you give few good targets for AV weapons. Just watch out for plasma blasts!

Guys thank you for this thread.
I have been trying to decide between BA and BT space marines.

This was a really informative thread.