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i only post this here and not send it directly to Gwar! only because i don't know his extent of necrons

so here's the setup
flayed ones and kharn get into an assault
kharn fails his leadership save for that special FO's ability
does he still have to roll 6's to hit?

and if he does if he rolls ones does he smack his own guys?

NoToTheMan wrote:i only post this here and not send it directly to Gwar! only because i don't know his extent of necrons

so here's the setup
flayed ones and kharn get into an assault
kharn fails his leadership save for that special FO's ability
does he still have to roll 6's to hit?

and if he does if he rolls ones does he smack his own guys?

We just had this thread a few days ago, albeit about The Deciver

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/304311.page

The same applies to Flayed ones.

As for rolling 1s, yes, he still smacks his own doods.

can i get a





?

see that orange bit in Gwar's post? That would be a Link.

Kommissar Kel wrote:see that orange bit in Gwar's post? That would be a Link.

God the trolling is exhausting.

That link is garbage by the way, except to say that there's no answer, which would be preferable to Gwar!'s original response to the OP before he edited it.

I think that RAW and Occam's Razor would indicate that simply following both of those units' rules verbatim would leave little in the way of confusion.

Ah Flayed One's, breaking all the fun rules one edition at a time.

Actually, there's a bit you overlooked. Kharn the betrayer doesn't need to make the leadership test. He's fearless, and the Terrifying Visage rule doesn't apply to units that don't normally need to take morale tests or are assumed to automatically pass them, which is pretty much what fearless does.

While morale checks are leadership tests, not all leadership test are morale checks.

In other words just because you are fearless, and thus auto pass MORALE checks, you do not auto pass LEADERSHIP checks.

The bit you overlooked is the difference, which undermines your poiint somewhat....

Actually, I know the difference. However, the flayed ones terrifying visage rules specifically states that the ability to automatically pass a moral tests means that they don't have to worry about terrifying visage. In fact, "units that normally either need not take morale tests or are assumed to automatically pass them are unaffected by this rule." is the exact quote from the book. And fearless is 'automatically pass all Morale tests', so point not undermined.

dancingcricket wrote:Actually, I know the difference. However, the flayed ones terrifying visage rules specifically states that the ability to automatically pass a moral tests means that they don't have to worry about terrifying visage. In fact, "units that normally either need not take morale tests or are assumed to automatically pass them are unaffected by this rule." is the exact quote from the book. And fearless is 'automatically pass all Morale tests', so point not undermined.

i'm not sure what you're looking at
because i have the codex open and it says nothing about

the ability to automatically pass a moral tests means that they don't have to worry about terrifying visage

and i'm having trouble finding

units that normally either need not take morale tests or are assumed to automatically pass them are unaffected by this rule.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
our dear friend yakface wrote the FAQ for both necrons and CSM and it doesn't say anything about this in any of those

Pg 17 of the necron codex. Terrifying visage. Last sentence.

As for the INAT faq, yet another reason to not use it.

You either have an old edition or aren't looking at the right spot but my codex for crons says the same thing about terrifying visage and "units that don't take morale tests or are assumed to pass all morale tests are not affected by terrifying visage." Maybe not verbatim but it is the last line in the terrifying visage rule.

it says...

Units in close combat with the Flayed Ones must take a leadership test at the start of each round of combat. If they fail then for that round they may only hit the Flayed Ones on a roll of 6 regardless of WS

nothing about units being fearless being exempt from this rule
and it is a LEADERSHIP test
not a morale test

this goes back to THE DOOM!!!
"ok, take a leadership save on 3d6"
"but my guys are fearless"
"doesn't matter, leadership save on 3d6"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
now if it were a morale save that Kharn had to make he'd be fine
but it's not

Your half right. It says that, but that's only part of the text. Last sentence states that units that need not take morale tests or which are assumed to auto pass are unaffected by this rule.

Trust me, I wish it did affect fearless units. I'd throw them out there in front of my troops all the time, with nearby flayed ones to reduce opponents leadership, and maybe a lord in the unit with gaze of flame, so that I could bounce all the CC specialist squads that are running in and wiping them out. Read the whole paragraph, if yours doesn't have it, head down to your FLGS and look through their book, and see if it's a bit different than the one you have.

Remember that there are multiple printings of the Necron Codex with slightly different rules in each. GW did it just to be difficult.

NoToTheMan wrote:
our dear friend yakface wrote the FAQ for both necrons and CSM and it doesn't say anything about this in any of those

Surprise, surprise. INAT skips providing something that could be legitimately useful.

Cheexsta wrote:Remember that there are multiple printings of the Necron Codex with slightly different rules in each. GW did it just to be difficult.

Yes, and if you look at the first page down towards the bottom area it will tell you "Second Printing" if you have the second printing.

dancingcricket wrote:Pg 17 of the necron codex. Terrifying visage. Last sentence.

As for the INAT faq, yet another reason to not use it.

1st Point: Hooray for Stealth reprints without posted errata!

2nd Point they are not talking about the INAT they are talking about the Official GW FAQ; so, more reason not to use those!

Kommissar Kel wrote:

dancingcricket wrote:Pg 17 of the necron codex. Terrifying visage. Last sentence.

As for the INAT faq, yet another reason to not use it.

1st Point: Hooray for Stealth reprints without posted errata!

2nd Point they are not talking about the INAT they are talking about the Official GW FAQ; so, more reason not to use those!

INAT was specifically mentioned.
Argument = fail.

Even if Kharn were affected by the terrible visage, which I don't believe he is. (I don't have the Necrons codex) Kharn's weapon rule "Gorechild" says he always hits on a 2+ against models with a WS value.

Sigmatron wrote:Even if Kharn were affected by the terrible visage, which I don't believe he is. (I don't have the Necrons codex) Kharn's weapon rule "Gorechild" says he always hits on a 2+ against models with a WS value.

That's just it though, the terrifying visage rule (and the c'tan one as well) override his "always hits on a 2 regardless of WS" because it's not a rule that is modifying WS in any way, it is modifying what is necessary to roll for a hit regardless of WS. Though, Kharn is immune to the terrifying visage but he would be affected by the deceiver's rule as his is a leadership test, not morale like terrifying visage is.

Ok here's what you do: if the Necron player has an older codex, use the visage rule where you roll regardless of fearless as older codex says it is a leadership test. If it is the newer book, follow the rule as a morale check.

Same way as using allies for DH and WH codex vs PDF. There, problem solved.

turns out i did get the first printing

so nvm

Sisters of Battle: Celestian
Holy Hatred: When in close combat with any enemy with a WS attribute, Celestians hit on a 3+ regardless of respective Weapon Skill values. This advantage does not apply if the enemy ia an independent character, Tyranid Monstrous Creature or Monstrous Creature.

Necrons: Flayed Ones
Terrifying Visage: Units in close combat with the Flayed Ones must take a Leadership test at the start of each round of combat. If they fail then for that round they may only hit the Flayed Ones on a roll of 6 regardless of WS.

my Codex: Necrons doesn't say that fearless people and such ignore the rule, but that's not the point. neither side cares about WS so they contadict

ask before the game?

Lotet wrote:Sisters of Battle: Celestian
Holy Hatred: When in close combat with any enemy with a WS attribute, Celestians hit on a 3+ regardless of respective Weapon Skill values. This advantage does not apply if the enemy ia an independent character, Tyranid Monstrous Creature or Monstrous Creature.

Necrons: Flayed Ones
Terrifying Visage: Units in close combat with the Flayed Ones must take a Leadership test at the start of each round of combat. If they fail then for that round they may only hit the Flayed Ones on a roll of 6 regardless of WS.

my Codex: Necrons doesn't say that fearless people and such ignore the rule, but that's not the point. neither side cares about WS so they contadict

ask before the game?

The thing is though, the Celestians hit on a 3 regardless of the WS chart but the flayed ones force a leadership (morale in newer codex) test and overrides that 3+ rule because forcing a leadership roll is another modifier to the equation and both are forgoing WS entirely. The added modifier will take precedence over the previous rule because it is not modifying WS in any way (even though both disregard WS) but is forcing a secondary roll to be made so that units in CC can attack at their normal pre-determined skill.

Che-Vito wrote:

Kommissar Kel wrote:

dancingcricket wrote:Pg 17 of the necron codex. Terrifying visage. Last sentence.

As for the INAT faq, yet another reason to not use it.

1st Point: Hooray for Stealth reprints without posted errata!

2nd Point they are not talking about the INAT they are talking about the Official GW FAQ; so, more reason not to use those!

INAT was specifically mentioned.
Argument = fail.

Yes by you, and dancing Cricket. No to the Man mentioned "the FAQs" haviving been written by Yakface. hose FAQs he was referring to were the Official GW FAQs.

When the only ones mentioning INAT are you and the poster I quoted(in the Post I quoted), Your insult = Fail

Reading Comprehension FTW!

Che-vito is hardwired to diss the INAT fail and use the word "fail" whenever the FAQ is mentioned, it's best to ignore those remarks.

The situation the thead is actually about seems to be the perfect example of one you'd dice off on before the start of every close combat.

Actually this given situation; what with the fearless Kharn and Stealth reprint granting fearless a reprieve from the rule, means Khane don't care about scary flesh covered robots and always hits on a 2+

I do not know if the Deceiver's Dread rule has the same reprint change; So if Kevin949 could shed some light on that, we will know how that works vs Kharn.

At any rate the rules have an in-built dice-off(of sorts) for Wolf tooth necklace(always hits on 3+ regardless of WS) That being if you pass your Leadership, you get to hit on your special rules ability, if you fail you only hit them on a 6+

Kommissar Kel wrote:Actually this given situation; what with the fearless Kharn and Stealth reprint granting fearless a reprieve from the rule, means Khane don't care about scary flesh covered robots and always hits on a 2+

I do not know if the Deceiver's Dread rule has the same reprint change; So if Kevin949 could shed some light on that, we will know how that works vs Kharn.

At any rate the rules have an in-built dice-off(of sorts) for Wolf tooth necklace(always hits on 3+ regardless of WS) That being if you pass your Leadership, you get to hit on your special rules ability, if you fail you only hit them on a 6+

All of the rolls needing to made by C'tan rules are leadership tests, not morale. At least regarding this situation and, to a lesser extent, the test needed for even assaulting a c'tan.

*Edit*
I'll hit up verbatim's later on when I'm home unless someone beats me to it. Heck, if it's allowed I'll post a screenshot of it.

I know it is a leadership test(and thus Fearless has no bearing, generally) but I only have the first printing of the necron Codex, and as you all said in the second printing there is some sort of caveat that while it is a leadership test fearless units can still ignore it.

You said it yourself so I assumed you had the second printing version.