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From looking at things further with the new rulebook, I think that marauder horde lists may be one of the ubiquitous 8th edition builds, and marauders might be considered one of the more powerful/undercosted units of 8th edition. I really want to avoid this! So, I'm thinking of going in a different direction, and one that I was already leaning towards in some ways with the dragon ogres.

Units I'm considering:
Daemon Prince
Throgg (needed to make trolls core)
Trolls
Ogres
Dragon Ogres
Dragon Ogre Shaggoth

Also, possibly Spawn and a Giant.

I love the new river troll models, and am excited to try this conversion for the dragon ogres. But I'm left wondering about the regular ogres (which I would like to include, if only to take a few banners and not insta-lose that one mission with both my new and current army!).

Any ideas of GW models, or conversions based off of GW models, to use for the ogres? The most obvious choice is using the Ogre Kingdoms models, but they won't mesh with the conversion for the dragon ogres, or the river troll models.

Thoughts?

Edit: One idea is to use the minotaur models, or use them with a headswap. I greatly prefer them to the ogre kingdoms models... but would they match the trolls? I think so, somewhat... but I don't know if that's the best solution.

The dragon ogre conversion can be done withe Ogre Kingdoms models, it is just a much more difficult job. (detaching the legs from the ogres is a PITA) But even with my lack of greenstuff skills, I was able to manage it.

I personally like the look of the larger ogre torso, but I have been told it looks silly, unfortunately.

But doing so will make it so that finding your regular ogre models will be much easier.

Hmm, what if I avoid the issue altogether by just going with trolls and dragon ogres?

Here's a possible list:

Troll King Throgg- 175
6 Trolls- 270
6 Trolls- 270
6 Trolls- 270
3 Dragon Ogres, AHW- 219
3 Dragon Ogres, AHW- 219
4 Dragon Ogres, AHW- 292
Dragon Ogre Shaggoth, GW- 285
Total- 2000

OR

Troll King Throgg- 175
6 Trolls- 270
6 Trolls- 270
3 Dragon Ogres, AHW- 219
3 Dragon Ogres, AHW- 219
4 Dragon Ogres, GW- 308
Dragon Ogre Shaggoth, AHW- 275
Chaos Giant- 225
Total- 1961


I could drop a unit of trolls and get something else with those 270 points... a Giant fits in nicely at 225 (just barely fits in the rare). I did that for the second list, but couldn't add anything in to get up to 2000. I'm not really sure what else this list could use, or if it's even viable enough to consider? I certainly like the idea of it from a modelling point of view...

I have a slight issue with dragon ogres.... in that you're paying 20 points more than trolls, and getting +1 Mv, WS, BS, W, I. and an Armor Save instead of a Regen Save. Now, BS doesn't matter, the difference between I1 and I2 is almost nothing, the armor save can be modified, and 2 inches more on movement isn't a big deal, so the only two things that matter is +1 W and +1 WS.

But consider this, your unit of 3 dragon ogres has 12 attacks, and 12 wounds for 219 pts. For 6 more points you can get a unit of 5 trolls with 15 attacks and 15 wounds.....

If you ask me i would go with the list containing the gigant. And even thou dragon orges are expesinvie in point count, they make up for it. And I can see why you would like to try such an army list, it would certanliy be uniq, So good luck no mather what you choose

Oh, and something I'd like to point out about your list.... you auto lose atleast one of the scenarios the command point scenario, and maybe the tower scenario too (not sure if monstrous infantry can go inside)

Thanks- I like the list with the giant better, too!

I'll think on it some more and see if inspiration hits me, but I like the idea... I'm also open to including some ogres if I could think of a good model to substitute in.

I would try and work in another character to actually be your general. Then you have two points of Inspiring presence that your trolls and ogres and things can use. The first being your actual general, and the second being Throgg. I would go with Kolek. Hes a tank and he fits the theme.

Kholek's awesome, but he's also 600 points!!! So it's a possibility for higher point games, but maybe not for this level.

What about this change?

Troll King Throgg- 175
7 Trolls- 315
6 Trolls- 270
4 Dragon Ogres, AHW- 292
3 Dragon Ogres, AHW- 219
3 Dragon Ogres, AHW- 219
Dragon Ogre Shaggoth, AHW- 275
Chaos Giant- 225
Total- 1990

I added a troll (to run that unit at 4-wide with Throgg) and dropped the unit of 4 Dragon Ogres down to AHW. I think I'd rather have the extra attack, and let the Shaggoth / Giant go after the big stuff! Now that unit will put out 20 S5 attacks... not too shabby!

Here's the model I'd love to get a hold of to use as the giant

Try this....

Throgg-175

6 Trolls-270

6 Trolls-270

6 Trolls-270

3 Ogres-125
-Standard Bearer

3 Ogres-125
-Standard Bearer

3 Ogres-125
-Standard Bearer

3 Ogres-125
-Standard Bearer

Dragon Ogre Shaggoth-275
-Extra Handweapon

Chaos Giant-225

This way, you have 6 control points, and won't auto-lose 1/6th of the missions you play.

It looks good! However, I'm already used to auto-losing the breakpoint mission, since my tree army has no banners. I'm kind of resigned to it at this point! I also really want to include dragon ogres, since they're the reason I'm starting the army .

I think you're right about trolls being a better buy for the points, though, so I might add in the last unit of dragon ogres later, and put an extra unit of trolls in. Something like this:

Troll King Throgg- 175
6 Trolls- 270
6 Trolls- 270
6 Trolls- 270
4 Dragon Ogres, AHW- 292
3 Dragon Ogres, AHW- 219
Dragon Ogre Shaggoth, AHW- 275
Chaos Giant- 225
Total- 1996

Here's what I'm considering doing to get to 2500 (the max I'd be running this list at):

Troll King Throgg- 175
8 Trolls- 360
8 Trolls- 360
6 Trolls- 270
4 Dragon Ogres, AHW- 292
3 Dragon Ogres, AHW- 219
3 Dragon Ogres, AHW- 219
Dragon Ogre Shaggoth, AHW- 275
Chaos Giant- 225
Scyla Anfinngrim- 105
Total- 2500

Believe it or not, I actually like the Scyla Anfinngrim model . I thought of a lot of different ways to get to 2500, and it seems like just adding in him and some more trolls is the most "fun" way to do it. I really can't think of a way to convert ogres that I like, and if I'm going for a Throgg list, I might as well go whole-hog! That's the thought process, anyway...

I'll be picking up the first box of trolls next week, then picking up a box of black orcs, and swapping for the cold one bodies at games day for the dragon ogre conversion, along with picking up another box of trolls. Then I should be well on my way!

Atleast put in two units of ogres with standards so you don't auto lose..... That breakpoint mission is likely to be in every tournament or league you play in.

Throgg-175

6 Trolls-270

6 Trolls-270

6 Trolls-270

3 Ogres-135
-Standard Bearer, Musician

3 Ogres-125
-Standard Bearer

3 Dragon Ogres-239
-Extra Hand Weapons
Champion

Dragon Ogre Shaggoth-275
-Extra Handweapon

Chaos Giant-225



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and your 2000 point list is currently illegal, as you have 511 points in special choices, and you only get 500

Well, you get 50% of your points in special, so it should be OK as far as that goes... I do appreciate the feedback!

RiTides wrote:Well, you get 50% of your points in special, so it should be OK as far as that goes... I do appreciate the feedback!

Duh, brainfart on my part :-)

RiTides wrote:It looks good! However, I'm already used to auto-losing the breakpoint mission, since my tree army has no banners. I'm kind of resigned to it at this point! I also really want to include dragon ogres, since they're the reason I'm starting the army .

Stay with the auto-lose! Not that I wish you or your army any ill-will, but I'm hoping enough people will consistently do this at tournaments that it might get two messages into some of the thick skulls of some GW rules writers:

First, that your audience isn't brain-dead enough to go out and buy models they don't even want in their army just because you wrote one scenario that needs them.

Second, that a Standard scenario that results in legal armies automatically losing the game is a poorly written scenario.

Also, I love the idea of the Troll King army. I had thought about it myself, but I am unconvinced that I would enjoy painting and assembling that many Trolls (and, honestly, I'm kind of annoyed that O&G get troll "types", and chaos doesn't. I want River Trolls!

Lol Angron, I get 'em plenty . I am also pondering whether I like the old stone trolls enough to include them for one of the units... but I think they might look odd next to the new river trolls, so I'll probably just stick to the newer models. They do look sweet!!

Edit: Ninja'ed!! Thanks, Da Butcha . Yes, I also wish WoC got troll "types"- but getting them as core is a pretty sweet consolation prize . I had been considering a marauder horde numbering close to 200 models... so painting 20 or so trolls seems a lot less intimidating after that . Especially with them being plastic now!

Well I see you didnt decide to make an OnG list !
Im liking the looks and theme of this list and will have to take a jab at it when I get the chance to... But after looking briefly at it, Im thinking you need to add kholek into your 2500... You know you want to! Hes just too beefy not to use!
Also, you really need to think about adding a caster, if you don't, your going to find it extremely difficult and annoying to dispel spells when you have no wizard level to add to the dice roll! Not to mention, imagine how nasty some of those augment spells would be for your force!

Yes, I just decided to steal all my favorite O&G models and stick with WoC after all . The dragon ogre conversion is something I really want to do, and with trolls as core, who can resist?

Kholek could basically just be added to my 2000 point list to get to 2500, I suppose but I think I'd reserve him for 3K. Actually, that's a really good idea! He's 605 points... I drop Scyla Anfinngrim (105 points) and add in Kholek. Bingo! Insta-3K list!

And you're right, a lot of spells that reduce characteristics, or worse, call for an initiative test, will spell gloom and doom for da trolls :-/. But I think that will be the case even with a caster, and my reasoning is that if I go with the "free" magic defense, and lose hundreds of points to magic, it's the same as spending hundreds of points on magic defense... I did consider a DP as a wizard, but I think they'd be target #1, and there's no other wizard that fits the theme!

When i did my troll list i modeled some "captured Mages" put them in cages and modeled them on a troll with a larger base
List wise they where on barded chaos warhorses, works a treat!

NOT THE TROLL ARMY

NOOOOOO

RiTides- you know that HUGE troll model, where that from, Forgeworld?

Lol ShivanAngel . That's... not quite the look I'm going for

Lordjig6- it is from Forgeworld, but it's OOP, so I'm going to have to hunt for it!

Here's all the lists as I have them planned now. Eventually, I'll have enough trolls to have a 24 troll (including throgg) unit face off against my 18 treekin unit, both around 1200 points... just to see what happens .

Troll King Throgg- 175
6 Trolls- 270
6 Trolls- 270
6 Trolls- 270
4 Dragon Ogres, AHW- 292
3 Dragon Ogres, AHW- 219
Dragon Ogre Shaggoth, AHW- 275
Chaos Giant- 225
Total- 1996

Troll King Throgg- 175
8 Trolls- 360
8 Trolls- 360
6 Trolls- 270
4 Dragon Ogres, AHW- 292
3 Dragon Ogres, AHW- 219
3 Dragon Ogres, AHW- 219
Dragon Ogre Shaggoth, AHW- 275
Chaos Giant- 225
Scyla Anfinngrim- 105
Total- 2500

Kholek Suneater- 605
Troll King Throgg- 175
8 Trolls- 360
8 Trolls- 360
6 Trolls- 270
4 Dragon Ogres, AHW- 292
3 Dragon Ogres, AHW- 219
3 Dragon Ogres, AHW- 219
Dragon Ogre Shaggoth, AHW- 275
Chaos Giant- 225
Total- 3000

Kholek will probably be the last model on my "to-do" list, but I'll have to think about how to convert him- I could do something as simple as use a Shaggoth and swap out the axe-head for a Huge hammer. This might actually work fine, since for the normal Shaggoth I'll be converting it to have two hand weapons, so they'll look different.

The other possibility is to convert one using a carnosaur body as a base- but I can't think of a good upper torso. So I'll think about this some more once I get to that point!

Kholek is so incredibly sick... Amazing lord choice....

yes he is, but because of taht id whack him in a 2500
simplyt because your opponent wont expect that!
and its just unstoppable in the lowest point games!

I think the lowest point level game I can take him in now is 2500 or so, since he's 605! I will probably try that at some point, although it seems a bit mean .

Of course, an opponent with lots of cannons might thank me for giving him 700 points (if Kholek's my general) when he plunks him with two shots!

Stupid WoC and their usable lords....

Wish my armies lords werent overpriced piles of gak!

I guess 605 points is "usable" honestly that felt like the upper limit to me coming from a wood elf player who has used Orion before, who (with hounds) is about the same cost!