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Mini-rant. I swear I seem to get the initiative stolen from my waaay more than not....

I'm just wondering if going first, people plan for getting the initiative stolen against them during their deployment. I've gotten beat up by having exposed units that I was planning on moving into cover, popping, smoke, etc.

I hate to think I'll start putting everything in reserve WHEN I GO FIRST, just to avoid getting hammered. I'd prefer to play aggressively, but lately I think I'm psyching myself out and dreading that '6' to come up against me....


Anyway, just wanted to hear some feedback from everyone any maybe some funny stories about games where the initiative was stolen.

You could just concede the first turn and avoid the whole situation. Alternatively, adjust your tactics so you are not so reliant on capitalizing on your first turn. Keeping your stuff in reserve if you fear a heavy alpha strike is not being timid, but rather being smart. Most games are about 5-6 turns, there's no need to rush.

And it also may well be psychological. It certainly feels to me like I fail about 98% of my difficult terrain checks to the point that I'm about to break down and put dozers on everything.

^ Yes.
I very much like to get second.

Else, if given first, then deploy defensively and flirt with reserves.

Scout units are also quite awesome for this. You can deploy them very offensively, and then depending on whether they seize the initiative, carry out your plan or redeploy to a safer area.

IIRC, scout moves happen before Seize.
not 100% sure though.

I am not really a fan of them adding that in. I keep a mental note of everyone at the FLGS who does and doesnt do that. Cause some people always do it and others never do. Thats really the best way I have found to deal with it. Or to just deploy like they are going first even if they are not..just in case.

/shrug.
It adds an interesting twist to the game.
It's unlikely, but punishes stupid deployments taking full advantedge what was once a sure thing.

It adds to the game IMO. It actually forces you to think about deployment...which IMO is the most important thing.

I like the sieze rules myself, but then I have run into people who hate it. Speaking for myself, I tend to try an limit my exposure to not having first turn by putting as much in cover as I can, but then again I haven't been winning many games so maybe a more aggressive approach is called for .

Sanctjud wrote:IIRC, scout moves happen before Seize.
not 100% sure though.

Sanct has the right of this...

I always attempt to seize the innitiative (if I can), even in Objective missions.

I also always deploy with the assumption that my opponant will seize the innitiative (if he can).

The psychological advantage of stealing the first turn is often sufficient to make it worthwhile, but I find most people deploy in such a way that I'd be a fool not to try and seize.

My Exorcist has a 48" range and you deployed your Predator out of cover because you thought you were going first. Well, I suppose it just sucks to be you.

The last 5 games I have gone first, my opponent siezes the initiative. Just deploy defensively as if you were not going first.

I'd flirt with reserves...seriously. It's won me more games than I have lost with all of my fast armies.

Whenever possible, I like to allow the opponent the first turn unless he either forces me to take it, or it's Annihilation.

My deployment doesn't really change much. either way.

To be honest my group doesn't allow "sleaze the initiative". In games where I've succeeded the out of cover deployment of the person previously going first had them conceding in turn 2 or 3. Pretty rough. Though people should plan for it, I don't like that there is no downside for the attempting sleazer.

It's 1/6...so when they deploy, they can't assume they will get it...and they themselves will deploy defensively.

In addition going second is very desirable on 2/3 of the missions IMO.


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Not allowing Seize is like going back to 4th Ed, where going first was preferable and yielded a higher chance of winning on averages...IIRC...I feel good taking a step forward, not a step back IMO.

It's 1/6...so when they deploy, they can't assume they will get it...and they themselves will deploy defensively.

In addition going second is very desirable on 2/3 of the missions IMO.

Agreed. Not allowing it is base cowardice. Oh no, I actually have to think when deploying!

Ha, i have a calssic "anything but a one story" (except its a six but hey). I was talking to this guy who was playing in a game in which they had just finished deployment. After i promised not to tell, one of them told me his battle plan. "Wow," i said, "that's quite clever..... As long as he doesn't steal the initiative..."

Yeah, you guessed what happened next...

And? Why is that so bad?
This game is based on transparency. It is your decision to chance him not rolling that 6.

You need to balance offensive and defensive postures, in effect, adds another layer/dynamic to the game.

Payoffs can be huge, but when you gamble, be prepared to lose.

"sleaze the initiative"

Good feedback.

When I'm playing Tau, I seem to always opt for going first. Depending on how that 1st and 2nd round shooting first usually determines if I'm going to win or not.

Having learned the game playing Tau, Blood Angels still feel completely foreign to me. I haven't adjusted to that "I must shoot first" and "OMG my vehicles don't have auto cover saves" mind frame. But yeah, as fast as my BA are, I should start to develop going 2nd strategies and use cover+reserves more.

I should start to develop going 2nd strategies and use cover+reserves more.

Yes, totally agree when cover on the table and reserves are totally free of cost to make use of

Caution: even then reserves can be a fickle thing and note what is on the board is taxed a bit more wrt incoming fire.
It is truely a balance that you'll have to get a 'feel' for.

-Sanct.

Try spacing out your army as much as possible when you deploy so if youre hit my blast weapons less men will be hit.