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It's occurred to me that Daemons are actually quite... unrealistic.
Now, I hear you cry; "It's set 39,000 years in the future, and Daemons are creatures from a non-existant dimension, and are, therefore, completely unrealistic anyway."

However, I don't mean that. What I mean is, Daemons aren't very sensibly designed, considering they're daemons.

Here are a few points:

1) Why (apart from the Tzeenchy-people) are all the basic footsoldiers, (Bloodletters, Daemonettes, Plaguebearers) all humanoid? This is meant to be chaos, for goodness' sake!

2) Why don't bloodletters look more... warlike? They're hardly spiked at all, have only one weapon, an ineffectively small mouth, and a strangely large head. They could be better adapted for war.

3) How come Daemonettes have... Ahem, lady-parts? As daemons don't reproduce, there is surely no need for Mammary glands (or any daemonic equivalent). The same goes for Fiends of Slaanesh. (Ok, on daemonettes it may be to enforce their 'attractive' image, but on fiends? Who's going to fall in love with a horse-like creature on the field of battle?)

4) On the subject of Daemonettes, why on earth do they have noses? Daemon's don't need to breathe, and surely if a sense of smell was necassary in battle, Bloodletters would have noses.

5) Why are all the Daemons formed to Human concepts? Surely, for example, the Eldar have completely different concepts of Warlike-ness, attractiveness, etc. And we know the Eldar are just as responsible for the birth of chaos as we are, look at Slaanesh.

6) This is Daemonic Cheese: (I don't know why, I just wanted an excuse to use that emoticon.)

If you've noticed anything else, feel free to post!

1. It's an anthropomorphic universe. Humans, Orks, Tau, Eldar, Kroot, Necrons, and so on are all humanoid. Nothing stopping you from modeling non-humanoid daemons like Beasts, Screamers, Steeds, Juggernauts, Hounds, Horrors, Flamers, Fiends, Soulgrinders, etc.

2. They are warlike. Their heads resemble tall war-helms, the scales of their skin resemble mail, they're armed with unholy big swords, their skin is bloody red, and their mouths are full of sharp teeth, and their faces are like skulls.

3. It alludes to the androgenous nature of warped desire; it's difficult to represent the disturbing glamours and musks surrounding Daemons of Slaanesh (making them appear as something attractive rather than the horrifying monsters that they truly are) and 28mm clitorii would just confuse and baffle the game-store trolls.

4. Portraits of people often have noses as well, but the portraits don't need to breathe or smell. Same thing with daemons, their manifestations don't need noses but sometimes include them for symbolic purposes.

5. Concepts are universal, and the Eldar don't have completely alien concepts of "warlike-ness" or attractiveness; they're just another alien species that's basically human with silicon/rubber appliances glued to their faces. Which is important because if they were truly alien they wouldn't belong in the game or be interesting to human players. The problem with writing aliens in sci-fi or even science-fantasy is that science fiction and science fantasy are essentially about people and if aliens are going to be people then they're going to be like us, and if they're not going to be people then they're going to be irrelevant are characters (though not as plot devices or background colour). Man is the measure of all things, and all that. Personally I would appreciate a race of hyper-violent molluscs, but them's the breaks.

6. I agree, for it is not real cheese and is merely the image of cheese drawn from our imaginations and given is sickly visage via the Power of the Warp (aka the Interweb).

Ardensfax wrote:

6) This is Daemonic Cheese: (I don't know why, I just wanted an excuse to use that emoticon.)

If you've noticed anything else, feel free to post!

No, it's Holey Cheese.....

Because if you (the player) were to see the Daemons in their true form, it would surely break your mind and alter your very perception of reality.

I always assumed it was because the deamons are formed from the nightmares of the various races (who are mostly humanoid- those that are affected by chaos anyway) in the 40k-verse and hence they would be formed with humanoid restrictions, bipedal movement/noses/unneccessary organs etc

unneccessary organs

This would not be as glaring if Slaanesh wasn't involved .

Sanctjud wrote:

unneccessary organs

This would not be as glaring if Slaanesh wasn't involved .

May the words, "more than one" haunt your dreams.

SaintHazard wrote:

Sanctjud wrote:

unneccessary organs

This would not be as glaring if Slaanesh wasn't involved .

May the words, "more than one" haunt your dreams.

Slaanesh: Prince(ess) of 'More than one'

When Slaanesh's involved, it's probably more than three!

Ardensfax wrote:When Slaanesh's involved, it's probably more than three!

Or even over NNINNNE THOOOUUSAAAAAAAAAND!!!

Ardensfax wrote:It's occurred to me that Daemons are actually quite... unrealistic.
Now, I hear you cry; "It's set 39,000 years in the future, and Daemons are creatures from a non-existant dimension, and are, therefore, completely unrealistic anyway."

However, I don't mean that. What I mean is, Daemons aren't very sensibly designed, considering they're daemons.

Here are a few points:

1) Why (apart from the Tzeenchy-people) are all the basic footsoldiers, (Bloodletters, Daemonettes, Plaguebearers) all humanoid? This is meant to be chaos, for goodness' sake!

2) Why don't bloodletters look more... warlike? They're hardly spiked at all, have only one weapon, an ineffectively small mouth, and a strangely large head. They could be better adapted for war.

3) How come Daemonettes have... Ahem, lady-parts? As daemons don't reproduce, there is surely no need for Mammary glands (or any daemonic equivalent). The same goes for Fiends of Slaanesh. (Ok, on daemonettes it may be to enforce their 'attractive' image, but on fiends? Who's going to fall in love with a horse-like creature on the field of battle?)

4) On the subject of Daemonettes, why on earth do they have noses? Daemon's don't need to breathe, and surely if a sense of smell was necassary in battle, Bloodletters would have noses.

5) Why are all the Daemons formed to Human concepts? Surely, for example, the Eldar have completely different concepts of Warlike-ness, attractiveness, etc. And we know the Eldar are just as responsible for the birth of chaos as we are, look at Slaanesh.

6) This is Daemonic Cheese: (I don't know why, I just wanted an excuse to use that emoticon.)

If you've noticed anything else, feel free to post!

1) It is not the place of mortals to question the will of the gods.

2) It is not the place of mortals to question the will of the gods.

3) It is not the place of mortals to question the will of the gods.

4) It is not the place of mortals to question the will of the gods.

5) It is not the place of mortals to question the will of the gods.

6) It is not the place.... Cheese you say?

Basically, what it comes down to is Daemons are drawn and created from the psychic-ness of mortals.

In the Game, most mortals are Humanoid. The ones that aren't (Tyranids) have a negative psychic presence. Thus, many daemons are humanoid.

Anything that that doesn't explain can be ascribed to the madness of chaos.

Yes, that makes sense I suppose!

(On an unrelated note, I wonder why most mortals are humanoid... surely it's not the only way life can evolve!)

maybe the 4 limbed humanoid structure thing came from the same source, the Old Ones could have loaded planets for civilization or maybe there was a mass of potential life tha was spread by some event. maybe only these kinds of creatures had the capability to advance ad so other species, like bugs, just went about thier daily business

I don't know what I'm talking about, can you tell?

Ardensfax wrote:Yes, that makes sense I suppose!

(On an unrelated note, I wonder why most mortals are humanoid... surely it's not the only way life can evolve!)

Because the game is NOT real.

Ardensfax wrote:Yes, that makes sense I suppose!

(On an unrelated note, I wonder why most mortals are humanoid... surely it's not the only way life can evolve!)

Um, Tyranids?

The old ones are said to have made everything mostly humanoid. rather uncreative but hey don't fix what is not broken.

There are many Deamon that aren't Homonoid.

Horrors, Flamers, Fiends(mostly), Hounds....

Bloodletters are hominoid because they are formed from the warlike nature of hominoid creatures and they also tend to prey upon hominoids.

Deamonettes are the same reason. they tend to be "Involved" with Hominoids and so resemble them. (Don't think about it. .... You thought about it didn't you?)

Grey Templar:

Do you mean "hominids" or "humanoids"?

It's because demons are given form by the impulse of sentient beings.

If both eldar and humans (both races which fuel the warp and affect how it's maninfested) think of titties when they think of desire, and angry goat-monsters when they think of terror, then the warp will manifest demons of desire with titties and demons of terror as angry goat-monsters.

Remember, the point of demons is to propogate the emotion that created them. There wouldn't be much point for a demon of fear of change to manifest itself as a toaster oven, or a stop sign, or a doorknob. No, they're going to manifest in a way that engenders a fear of change.

In short, demons are humanoid because that's what the humanoids that ultimately created them can relate to.

Not all sentient creatures are humanoids...

Ailaros wrote:Remember, the point of demons is to propogate the emotion that created them. There wouldn't be much point for a demon of fear of change to manifest itself as a toaster oven, or a stop sign, or a doorknob. No, they're going to manifest in a way that engenders a fear of change.

That gives me this great idea for a Tzeentch demon army...

Would you like some toast? How about a muffin?

SaintHazard wrote:Because if you (the player) were to see the Daemons in their true form, it would surely break your mind and alter your very perception of reality.

All of those links made sense, yet hurt my brain, all at the same time.

WOW!! Someone has way too much time on thier hands.....

Nurglitch wrote:Not all sentient creatures are humanoids...

that is if you define Sentience like Wikipedia does.

Sentience, in my book, is the ability for a full range of emotions as well as the ability to define, at least for itself, right and wrong and make moral descisions for itself.

By Wiki's definition all animals are sentient(depending of course on the definition of Percieve and Feel)

You can forgive me for not adhering to Wiki's definition as anyone, and i mean ANYONE, can edit it.

So rather than accept a public standard, you'd prefer to go with your own special definition. Okay...

I hear you. It makes no sense that even look the same. There should be no "Infantry man" or "cavalry". There should be NO organization or formation. ONLY CHAOS.

They should NEVER have to take leadership tests, they should never miss deep sriking (to represent the absolute accuracy of the warp) and they should never die. They are chaos. Unlimited, absolute and Invincible.

The entire existence of chaos is dependent on who see's them. The space marines might see bloodthirsters as giant armored behemoths while the eldar might see them as something else entirely.

Chaos makes no sense at all

If i walked up to most people and asked what Sentience means they would likely come up with something closer to my definition then Wiki's definition.

there is also how words are used and how they are supposed to use.

Sentience is used in Sci-fi to describe creatures that are capable of thinking, moral descisions, and that would have "Souls"

the Definition in the dictionary(is the same a Wiki) simply has to do with existance and bodily processes(Feel, touch, taste, smell)

we can probably blame Star Trek for messing up our definitions.


I am using Sentience as it is used in Sci-fi. I know it is "Incorrect". languages, however, change and Definitions can change OR at least have an additional meaning attached.



Sentience simply means capable of Sensory feelings.


Prehaps a better word would be Self-aware or Moral species.

Because Chaos can only be identified if order is first identified. (As chaos is the opposite of order, you cannot have one without the other, just like good & evil.)

Thus, Chaos is only seen as such by those that know order, which requires beyond "animal intelligence". And the only things in the 40k universe with a concept of order are humanoids, to my knowledge.

EDIT: Somewhere there is something relating good and evil and that knowing evil is necessary to know good, and thus the Christian god is evil, or some such thing. Just replace "good" with "order" and evil with "chaos", and you basically have an explanation why the demon forms of Chaos are actually pretty orderly. (Or maybe you have to reverse the two, I'm not sure, I don't remember exactly how the thing goes.)