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Hi Dakka,

Before I begin I have tried this list and have been unbeaten with this list since I got the codex, so I'm posting this to get your opinions on it.

HQ
Hive Tyrant, armoured shell, Old adversary, regenerate w/ bonesword&whip, syth tals, paroxysm, psychic scream- 255pts

Tyranid Prime, pair of boneswords, deathspitter, adrenal glands- 105pts

Troops
Warrior Brood(5), Deathspitters(4), venom cannon, adrenal glands- 210pts

Termagant Brood(16), Toxin sacs- 96pts

Hormagaunt Brood(16), adrenal glands- 128pts

Stealer Brood(9) syth tals, broodlord, toxin sacs- 217pts

Ripper Swarm(3)- 30pts

Elite
Hive Guard- 50pts

Ymgarl Stealers- 184pts

Heavy Support
Carnifex, crushing claws, bio plasma, regenerate- 230pts

Total
1505pts

This list is just a fun list among my friends. The ymgarl stealers are mainly my terror weapon popping out of terrain when my oppenent least expects it. The carnifex draws fire and is my anti-land raider, to protect my more vulnerable stealers and synapse. This list has worked fantastically for me so far and I hope it helps for you Nid players wanting a pretty stable list(in my opinion).

Tyranid Horde


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Anybody?

Any chance you could walk through a mock game? I see several flaws in the list, but I'm thinking depending on how you play it might actually work. If you post more of the tactics you employ or something I'll see what I can do.

I think your warrior unit's illegal dude. You say 5 warriors, 3 with deathspitters, 1 VC and (it would appear) one with extra scythes. Codex says you gotta have every model in a brood equipped the same, except for VC/BS upgrades which are one-offs per brood.

Whoops in my part, that was a mistake its fixed now.


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the weasel king wrote:Any chance you could walk through a mock game? I see several flaws in the list, but I'm thinking depending on how you play it might actually work. If you post more of the tactics you employ or something I'll see what I can do.

Ok, I usually rely on deployment for this list, making my oppenent deploy first gives me a better plan but it doesn't really matter much because I make a new plan.

With everything set up, I infiltrate my Stealers into terrain about 12" away from my oppenent's unit, say, BA sternguard. So that means I can assault in the first turn, tying up that unit before I kill them off. (less shooting means more assaults)

I spread my synapse over a wide range so I get the most of it. I leave my termagants behind on an objective if its an objective game or I use them to cover my Prime. The warriors provide synapse for the fex. The hive guard just lurks in terrain and shoots the rhinos that come near. The fex is, as I said, my anti-land raider and soaks up fire. The Hive Tyrant stays behind the Hormagaunts so he gets a cover save and can give preferred enemy to the gaunts and then can Paroxysm ICs or sanguinary guard.

My ymgarls I usually get in for turn 2 or 3. They can pop from terrain 1" away from enemy units and can assault instantly. By turn 2 I have most of my units in assault(yes thats what happens when your friends have Puppies and BA/CSM, ugh..MEQ's). I usually destroy my oppenent by turn 4, maybe turn 3 provided how things go to plan.
The Tyrant doesn't have a retinue because I don't have the models. The Rippers are mainly for laughs, I nearly killed a greater deamon with them.

It may be vague but I'm not good at writing tactics. Hope it helps a little!

But you only can infiltrate 12" away if you are out of LOS to enemy units... otherwise you have to stay 18" away, which makes 1st turn assault dependant on a 6" run roll.
A single Hive guard is not enough for todays mech heavy enviroment. Or do your MEQ enemies all play footsloggers?
I don't know if that happens only to me, but a walking tyrant with no guard is cannon fodder which dies in turn 1-2... Does he really work for you?

Tyranid Horde wrote:The Hive Tyrant stays behind the Hormagaunts so he gets a cover save...

I'm curious as to how your Hive Tyrant gets a cover save behind Hormagaunts if he doesn't have any Guard.

Your friends don't mind that you're over the 1500 limit? I know that sort of thing bugs me.

As previously stated, what is your one Hive Guard doing? What are you doing when you see more than a single Rhino across from you? You have two Monstrous Creatures that can't really catch up to anything that's actively trying to get away from them.

Your Genestealers really don't need Scything Talons, you're hitting 2/3rds of the time on pretty much anything, re-rolling 1's isn't worth the extra points and would bring you below the 1500 limit. I like the Broodlord, he's a nice addition that can turn off a power fist when need be and adds a little flavor to the Stealers.

For its points, you'd likely be much more happy with a Trygon than a Carnifex. Fleet makes a world of difference and S7 with 2d6 vehicle armor penetration isn't much worse than S9, especially since it gets a ton of attacks and can reroll all misses, very handy for hitting pesky moving vehicles. It's sad, but the Trygon really has one-upped the Carnifex. I guess that's what happens when they really want to sell the new models rather than let you use the ones you have.

Drop the adrenal glands on the hormagaunts. You're already going to out initiative so much stuff in the game that it's not a problem, and the Str bonus is hugely outperformed by wounding on 4+ with the potential for reroll against a majority of the models out there.

Why adrenals glands if you have your Warriors kitted out for dual ranged weapons? If they're shooty 'nids, shoot with them don't charge. If you're going for assaulty 'nids give them lash whip/bone sword and toxin sacks instead. Poison to wound with no armor saves almost always going first in initiative is a really, really nasty surprise.

And yeah, for ten more points you can get a Trygon Prime that doesn't get destroyed running across the field, provides synapse/shadow in the warp himself instead of requiring a baby sitter, gets 12 shots the turn he comes in, and is still going to play can opener on the assault just as reliably as a carnifex. 2D6 per attack on rear armor is, by itself,not going to be stopped. Add str and cans get opened. Hurts to say it, but the Carnifex is dead. Long live the Carnife- Trygon.

Emperor's Servant wrote:But you only can infiltrate 12" away if you are out of LOS to enemy units... otherwise you have to stay 18" away, which makes 1st turn assault dependant on a 6" run roll.
A single Hive guard is not enough for todays mech heavy enviroment. Or do your MEQ enemies all play footsloggers?
I don't know if that happens only to me, but a walking tyrant with no guard is cannon fodder which dies in turn 1-2... Does he really work for you?

They are in terrain buildings which they cannot be seen in.
A single Hive Guard is enough for me.
Its not cannon fodder because it gets a 4+ cover save from the gaunts in front and he hasn't died in my games, so he works.



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Kirbinator wrote:

Tyranid Horde wrote:The Hive Tyrant stays behind the Hormagaunts so he gets a cover save...

I'm curious as to how your Hive Tyrant gets a cover save behind Hormagaunts if he doesn't have any Guard.

Your friends don't mind that you're over the 1500 limit? I know that sort of thing bugs me.

As previously stated, what is your one Hive Guard doing? What are you doing when you see more than a single Rhino across from you? You have two Monstrous Creatures that can't really catch up to anything that's actively trying to get away from them.

Your Genestealers really don't need Scything Talons, you're hitting 2/3rds of the time on pretty much anything, re-rolling 1's isn't worth the extra points and would bring you below the 1500 limit. I like the Broodlord, he's a nice addition that can turn off a power fist when need be and adds a little flavor to the Stealers.

For its points, you'd likely be much more happy with a Trygon than a Carnifex. Fleet makes a world of difference and S7 with 2d6 vehicle armor penetration isn't much worse than S9, especially since it gets a ton of attacks and can reroll all misses, very handy for hitting pesky moving vehicles. It's sad, but the Trygon really has one-upped the Carnifex. I guess that's what happens when they really want to sell the new models rather than let you use the ones you have.

My friends usually allow going 10 pts over budget.
I dont see more than 1 rhino in my games.
My MCs have caught those tanks on countless occasions.
Trygons are S6 not S7 hence needing and 8 to glance a Land Raider, no stronger than a mycetic spore. So I still live in the old codex I guess, I prefer the Fex.


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SumYungGui wrote:Drop the adrenal glands on the hormagaunts. You're already going to out initiative so much stuff in the game that it's not a problem, and the Str bonus is hugely outperformed by wounding on 4+ with the potential for reroll against a majority of the models out there.

Why adrenals glands if you have your Warriors kitted out for dual ranged weapons? If they're shooty 'nids, shoot with them don't charge. If you're going for assaulty 'nids give them lash whip/bone sword and toxin sacks instead. Poison to wound with no armor saves almost always going first in initiative is a really, really nasty surprise.

And yeah, for ten more points you can get a Trygon Prime that doesn't get destroyed running across the field, provides synapse/shadow in the warp himself instead of requiring a baby sitter, gets 12 shots the turn he comes in, and is still going to play can opener on the assault just as reliably as a carnifex. 2D6 per attack on rear armor is, by itself,not going to be stopped. Add str and cans get opened. Hurts to say it, but the Carnifex is dead. Long live the Carnife- Trygon.

Ahh, but that extra WS helps hit on a 4+, so its needed.
The warriors have syth tals and a deathspitter, so I soften up my targets and charge. I think I'll equip them with toxin sacs.
Like I said, I prefer the Fex.

Do you guys not trust my list and ideas?

Well yes, extra WS would help but where are you getting it from? Adrenal glands give you furious charge, furious charge gives you +1 initiative +1 strength on the turn you charge. There's a OK argument for taking both adrenal glands and toxin sacks as then the Str from the adrenal glands helps you reroll against more stuff with poison but if it's one or the other, usually for points, toxin is just flat out better.

Ah, scything talons. Eh if you like. Rerolling 1's to hit isn't too terribly useful, especially when old adversary is on the board spreading around what is essentially dual scything talons within range of the Hive Tyrant. Give them lash whip, bone sword and toxin. To hit is pretty good on Warriors, even better if the Tyranid Prime is beebopping around with them, to wound is either 50% or 75% which is only outperformed by raw strength against toughness 1 and 2, compared to vastly improved chances against toughnesses 5+ and paying off more and more the higher you go. No armor saving, almost-always first attacks from lash whip bone-sword will horrify people.

Can't help you on the carnifex thing. Trygon is demonstrably superior in every way except cost compared to Carnifexes. Only way I think about carnies any more these days is if I want to irritate the crap out of someone with a regenerating, three strong, twelve wound, wound allocating deathstar unit of a carnifex brood which can be friggin hilarious to put Feel No Pain on. One carnie compared to one trygon just doesn't hold up.

Tyranid Horde wrote:Its not cannon fodder because it gets a 4+ cover save from the gaunts in front and he hasn't died in my games, so he works.

I'm still not sure how you're getting this. MCs need 50% of true line of sight to be considered in cover, just like vehicles. p51, 2nd paragraph under "Shooting". Unless I'm missing something, I doubt that the gaunts give him cover.

If you're only seeing 1 transport in any given game, you're very lucky with your meta-game. I personally run 2-3 Chimeras, 2 Vendettas, a Leman Russ, and usually an ordinance of some kind. Unless I'm playing poorly (which has been known to happen all too often), I doubt you'd get through most of my armor. By all means, though, play to your own meta-game. Just don't be surprised if you need to change a couple things if more armor shows up

Tyranid Horde wrote:Its not cannon fodder because it gets a 4+ cover save from the gaunts in front and he hasn't died in my games, so he works.

As previously pointed out, Monstrous Creatures need to be obscured by 50% of their visible model to obtain a cover save. The only way around this is if your Hive Tyrant has Tyrant Guard because they are not classed as Monstrous Creatures and can obtain cover from all things that give cover to infantry.

Tyranid Horde wrote:Trygons are S6 not S7 hence needing and 8 to glance a Land Raider, no stronger than a mycetic spore. So I still live in the old codex I guess, I prefer the Fex.

Trygons are S7 on the charge with Adrenal Glands, which they should always come with. They also have just as many attacks (on average) as a 'Fex with Crushing Claws. They also re-roll all failed rolls to hit
(very handy for hitting moving vehicles). They also have Fleet. They also have the same armor and toughness as a Carnifex in addition to having two more wounds. They also swing before MEQ and Dreadnoughts when charging with Adrenal Glands. They also... ok, I think we get the point.

Tyranid Horde wrote:Ahh, but that extra WS helps hit on a 4+, so its needed.

As previously mentioned, adrenal glands don't give a bonus to weapon skill. Further, at WS3 they hit on a 4+ against anything WS3 all the way up to WS7. WS4 would only help when getting hit back by MEQs.

Tyranid Horde wrote:Do you guys not trust my list and ideas?

It's not that we don't trust your ideas. It is that we feel your list could be more optimized and we think you may not be fully understanding certain rules, such as Monstrous Creatures and cover saves as well as what Furious Charge does.

My bad guys, a GW guy was teaching me this and he said it added WS, and I was going by the cover chart where it said a 4+ cover save if a unit was behind an enemy or friendly unit, I didn't know it didn't count for MCs sorry.

On another note, I have a Hive Guard in the process of being built, and a Fex thats just been sprayed. (The fex was present from my friends.)