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Looking through the list of psychic powers in the Blood Angels codex I noticed that the rules for The Sanguine Sword do not mention when this one terminate. Some of the others such as Unleash Rage specifically tell you when they come to an end and no longer work. How should you decide when to terminate The Sanguine Sword?

G

Black Blow Fly wrote:Looking through the list of psychic powers in the Blood Angels codex I noticed that the rules for The Sanguine Sword do not mention when this one terminate. Some of the others such as Unleash Rage specifically tell you when they come to an end and no longer work. How should you decide when to terminate The Sanguine Sword?

G

I always interpret it at the end of player turn. It says you may cast it at the beginning of EITHER players turn, which I assume means needing to be recast every turn you wanna use it

Well if the first assault was due to an opponent's unit charging the Librarian I can see why it's useful to be able to cast this power during the other player's turn.

G

This ultimately comes down to RAW versus RAI. Since there is no actual reason why it would terminate you could argue that it never does. Addtionally, you could argue that it was intended to be cast every player turn.

I see no real way to anwser this question without actually going to GW, or coming to an agreement with who you play with. IMO i think you must cast it everyplayer turn, since (and I am guessing) there are no pyschic powers that last longer then a turn.

Hi Pig. I was hoping some of the more staunch RAW advocates would weigh in on this one.

G

Black Blow Fly wrote:Hi Pig. I was hoping some of the more staunch RAW advocates would weigh in on this one.

G

There's no duration, that's simply a mistake. You could claim it's has no duration so lasts forever, but then at the same time it doesn't effect Epistolaries or Mephiston.

Aramoro

How do you know it's a mistake? All the other powers that work in assault it says so.

G

The sword is used in the assault phase, so I had always read it as affecting the attacks made in that phase--similar to a force weapon.

No duration is written, so there is no duration to claim.

The counter argument to saying that it never ends is "It doesn't have a duration at all, so you get no benefit from it."

Just saying.

I'm very interested in seeing an official (or at least very strongly argued) opinion on this. There's a Blood Angels player at my store who's making this claim, and there's a tournament on Saturday, I already told him that I have no interest in playing if he's going to be pulling out BS on that level.

Wait a sec, (most of) the other powers also mention that they work if successful--is anyone arguing that the sword functions permenantly regardless of the psychic test?

Need to go read for more fun examples of lacking duration. . . there was a rather large list iirc.

There is a guy I know who insists once it is successfully cast it never needs to be recast again.

G

solkan wrote:The counter argument to saying that it never ends is "It doesn't have a duration at all, so you get no benefit from it."

Just saying.

No. If something does not have a duration then by definition it does not end.

Not saying this is how it should be played, just pointing out that the counter argument is not valid.

RAW it seems to never expire.

That said, this is at the same level of ridiculousness as Spore Mines not being removed when they explode, or being able to move normally. Frankly it seems like an oversight that was missed in the FAQ to be perfectly honest.

Anyone who tries to pull "MAH BLUD ANGHELZ HAF S10 FOREVERZ HURR!" won't get a game out of me, you can be sure of that.

As a house rule, I would say you should recast every assault phase, since it can be cast in any player turn.

It's just one of those typical examples of the sort of bad editing GW is justly famous/infamous for these days.

We all know (Seriously, we all do don't we?) that the damned thing isn't meant to go up and stay up forever. It opens too many cans of worms and has way too many awful consequences. "My S10 Librarian uses his Force Sword and kills you." "He's an Epistolary?" "No. But I did cast Sanguine Sword back on turn 1." *sound of land raider being used as a proctologic implement*

Im not saying I would ever try to do this but what if you run into a TFG that says its okay because of hte RAW ?? What do you say then?

G

I would say that without a duration, it has none.

If not, there are a LOT of issues.

For a single silly example,
"+1 Assault Bonus: Engaged models who assaulted this turn get +1 attack"
is what the rule says, not "+1 Assault Bonus: Engaged models who assaulted get +1 attack this turn" which would limit that +1 to a single turn.

While you could certainly make a RAW argument for it to work forever (which might be a surprise for your next opponent...) I think the inference is clear the way it is written that it should only apply to that assault phase.

jbunny wrote:

solkan wrote:The counter argument to saying that it never ends is "It doesn't have a duration at all, so you get no benefit from it."

Just saying.

No. If something does not have a duration then by definition it does not end.

Not saying this is how it should be played, just pointing out that the counter argument is not valid.

You use the power, it's effects are applied, and then the power's over, unless it says otherwise. Charitably, the Sanguine Sword should last for the player turn. Uncharitably, it doesn't last any time at all.

According to the alternate logic, all of those abilities which allow a psyker to shoot a weapon last forever, as well. Even better, that means that Lash lasts forever, so all a CSM player has to do is lash each opposing enemy unit once and then proceed to keep moving the unit. Because none of those powers have a duration listed for them, either.

I think we can all agree to agree. Amazing.

Request to lock thread in tribute to all hte cool people that are making hte game fun to playy.

G

I passed my psychic check for Sword a month or so back. Really enjoying the S10 since then...

I use mine to clean hte carpet and remove those unsightly smudges on my black suit. Blood is a bitch to blot out.

G