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This is my second attempt now at this type of army and hopefully this will go bettter than last time. I'm still quite new to 40,000 so please don't be too harsh.
Cheers.

HQ
Shas'el
Equipment: 2 Plasma Rifles, Targeting Array, Hard-Wired Target Lock, Stimulant Injector
Total: 105pts

Elite
XV8 Battlesuit Squad (2 Shas'ui, 1 Shas'vre)
Equipment: Both Shas'ui have 2 Plasma Rifles, Targeting Array
Shas'vre has 2 Plasma Rifles, Targeting Array, Bonding Knife, Hard-wired Target lock
Total: 215pts

XV8 Battlesuit Squad (3 Shas'ui)
Equipment: 1 Shas'ui has 2 Missile Pods, Targeting Array, Hard-Wired Target Lock
Remainding 2 Shas'ui have 2 Fusion Blasters, Targeting Array, Bonding Knife
Total: 159pts

Troops
Fire Warrior Squad (12 Man Squad)
Equipment: Bonding Knife, Devilfish with Smart Missile System, Disruption Pods, Targeting Array, Target Lock
Total: 240pts

Fire Warrior Squad (6 Man Squad)
Equipment: Bonding Knife, Devilfish with Smart Missile System, Disruption Pods, Targeting Array, Target Lock
Total: 180pts

Kroot Carnivore Squad (12 Kroot, 6 Hounds)
Equipment: None
Total: 120pts

Heavy Support
Hammerhead Gunship
Equipment: Railgun, Burst Cannons, Disruption Pods, Target Lcok
Total: 160pts

XV88 Broadside Battlesuits (2 Shas'ui)
Equipment: Both With Plasma Rifles
Total: 160pts

Sniper Drone Team x2
Equipment: None
Total: 160pts

TOTAL: 1499pts

TauCommander13 wrote:This is my second attempt now at this type of army and hopefully this will go bettter than last time. I'm still quite new to 40,000 so please don't be too harsh.

Sure! Kindness here, harshness on the Table.

And really, you're last list was okay, just in need of nooB tweaks.

TauCommander13 wrote:Shas'el Equipment: 2 Plasma Rifles, Targeting Array, Hard-Wired Target Lock, Stimulant Injector

Good.

TauCommander13 wrote:XV8 Battlesuit Squad (2 Shas'ui, 1 Shas'vre)
Equipment: Both Shas'ui have 2 Plasma Rifles, Targeting Array
Shas'vre has 2 Plasma Rifles, Targeting Array, Bonding Knife, Hard-wired Target lock

Why still 'vre instead of just Team Leader?

TauCommander13 wrote:
XV8 Battlesuit Squad (3 Shas'ui)
Equipment: 1 Shas'ui has 2 Missile Pods, Targeting Array, Hard-Wired Target Lock

This guy needs to be upgraded to Team Leader to get acces to the hwTLock

TauCommander13 wrote:Troops
Fire Warrior Squad (12 Man Squad)
Equipment: Bonding Knife, Devilfish with Smart Missile System, Disruption Pods, Targeting Array, Target Lock

Why would you split the SMS and BC? Both are snti-I and really, 3 shots one way and 4 shots another is a bad split. 7 shots at one target is good. Skip target Lock on the 'fish, and make it MT instead, so it can move and shoot both guns at Combat Speed. Also, for the Fire Warriors to get access to the BK, you need a Team Leader upgrade.

TauCommander13 wrote:Hammerhead Gunship Equipment: Railgun, Burst Cannons, Disruption Pods, Target Lcok

Add MT so it can move and fire all guns at Combat Speed as if it were a Fast Vehicle.

TauCommander13 wrote:XV88 Broadside Battlesuits (2 Shas'ui) Equipment: Both With Plasma Rifles

I'd *try* to find points for a team leader upgrade, and Shield Drones. B-sides endure enemy fire first thing. Two suits won't last Two turns without SDs.

This is an interesting list. Half of it screams "mobility" and the other half screams "static firepower," and as such, there are a few contradictions in here.

First, the Shas'el. Ditch the targeting array, upgrade him to a Shas'O (gives BS 5 anyway) and add a missile pod and a hardwired multitracker (so he can fire both the rifles and the pod in the same turn). Stimulant injector is good, but add also a HW drone controller and two shield drones. Drones are a huge plus with Commanders, you can allocate wounds to them and they provide a 4+ invuln save. That, paired with FNP, will make your Commander a tough nut to crack.

For the rest of the battlesuits, ditch the plasma rifles for TL missile pods. Why? S7AP3 Assault 2 36" is better than S6AP2 Rapid Fire 24". Still two shots, higher S value, and twelve extra inches (24 extra inches if you want two shots). You're only sacrificing one AP.

Ditch the Kroot, they suck. Add 6 more troops to that second FW squad.

Nix the sniper drones as well - again, is this a mobile army or a static army? If mobile, you definitely do not want sniper drones. They're too expensive for what they do anyway. Get a second Hammerhead instead, much more useful against Horde type armies and most armor.

And, if this is a mobile army, nix the Broadsides, they can't move and shoot their railguns, which makes them dead weight in a mobile army. Switch them for some Piranhas with fusion blasters, a blessing against tanks that can be just as effective as Broadsides.

Add at least four Pathfinders in a Devilfish. Tau armies must have Markerlights.

Oh, and get rid of the target lock on the Hammerhead... if an enemy is close enough to the Hammerhead to use the burst cannons (18") it's time to panic and turn all your guns on it anyway. Give it a Multi-Tracker, though, so it can fire all its weapons (MTs on vehicles let them fire as if they were fast vehicles).

If I think of anything else, I'll post it, but this should give you a pretty solid mobile army. I may have gone over my points limit a bit, and if so, nix the Piranhas first, then the second Hammerhead.

All right, thanks for the help, i'm having a battle with a friend soon so i'll tweak this abit and tell you how it gets on.

Hey, record your battle via a notepad and maybe a camera and post the batrep. I love Tau batreps, there aren't enough that get posted here, and I'd be happy to read (and critique if I feel I'm qualified) yours.

I guess most of what SaintHazard says makes sense, however missile pods are AP4 so don't be too quick in dropping the plasma rifles.

Also Kroot are dirt cheap scoring units that can infiltrate or outflank to threaten the backfield and/or scoot toward objectives. Maybe drop the kroothounds from the squad though.

I disagree with the majority of this advice.

SaintHazard wrote:First, the Shas'el. Ditch the targeting array, upgrade him to a Shas'O (gives BS 5 anyway) and add a missile pod and a hardwired multitracker (so he can fire both the rifles and the pod in the same turn). Stimulant injector is good, but add also a HW drone controller and two shield drones. Drones are a huge plus with Commanders, you can allocate wounds to them and they provide a 4+ invuln save. That, paired with FNP, will make your Commander a tough nut to crack.

And a lot more expensive. Shield Drones increase the foot print size of the unit, making him easier to catch in h2h and harder to hide behind terrain. His IC status is protection enough to join other units.

edit:I missed that the HQ suit was a TL-PlasmaRifle and not a FireKnife. TC13, you ought to change it to the FireK like I recommended. Having it a Deathrain like SH recommended is kind of a waste of his great BallisticSkill, since a FK can generally do more than a TL-MP.

SaintHazard wrote:For the rest of the battlesuits, ditch the plasma rifles for TL missile pods. Why? S7AP3 Assault 2 36" is better than S6AP2 Rapid Fire 24". Still two shots, higher S value, and twelve extra inches (24 extra inches if you want two shots). You're only sacrificing one AP.

A crucial AP that bypasses MEq armor saves, thus the whole point of a FireKnife (PR/MP). The FK is anti-I and light armor. The Deathrain is *all* light armor. One isn't worse than the other; each just has a different job, the FK being more generalized.

@TC13: Stick with the PR/MP set up, called a "FireKnife". SaintHazard's 'Deathrain' (TL-MP) is a good suit, but as a beginner, the FireKnife is a good starter suit too. edit: Yeah, my statement here should read: 'Switch to a FK' blah blah blah.

SaintHazard wrote:Ditch the Kroot, they suck. Add 6 more troops to that second FW squad.

He's wrong. They don't suck. They have their role in tau armies. Outflanking kroot serves to make your enemy tighten up his deployment and the h2h is useful when you want to tie up the enemy's shooty units.

SaintHazard wrote:Nix the sniper drones as well - again, is this a mobile army or a static army? If mobile, you definitely do not want sniper drones. They're too expensive for what they do anyway. Get a second Hammerhead instead, much more useful against Horde type armies and most armor.

Here, SaintHazard is correct. I would run a Railhead over SniperDs any day. Then again, they aren't *horrible*. If you already have the models, play 'em!

As for SH's mobile vs. static tactic?

SaintHazard wrote:And, if this is a mobile army, nix the Broadsides, they can't move and shoot their railguns, which makes them dead weight in a mobile army. Switch them for some Piranhas with fusion blasters, a blessing against tanks that can be just as effective as Broadsides.

Total non-sense. Why *not* have a b-side team sitting in deployment central, while the rest of the mobile army flits about?

SaintHazard wrote:Oh, and get rid of the target lock on the Hammerhead... if an enemy is close enough to the Hammerhead to use the burst cannons (18") it's time to panic and turn all your guns on it anyway. Give it a Multi-Tracker, though, so it can fire all its weapons (MTs on vehicles let them fire as if they were fast vehicles).

The first part of this is silly. Turn 2, there are going to be enemies within 18". Invariably, an infantry heavy SM list gets marines near the tanks by turn 4 or so. I equip my railheads thus:

SMS, MT, TLock, DisPod ... occasionally Flechettes.

SaintHazard wrote:If I think of anything else, I'll post it, but this should give you a pretty solid mobile army. I may have gone over my points limit a bit, and if so, nix the Piranhas first, then the second Hammerhead.

Again the mobile vs static exclusivity is silly. Having some elements of one doesn't not mean that you should ignore the other, SaintHazard. I have always run a 'mix' and still have better than 70% Win/Loss over 5 years.

Every tau army should have b-sides *and* Railheads.

My experience has been that Tau work best as one or the other, not both. Don't get me wrong, it can be done, but I've always had more success running a Castle Up strategy than a mix of mobility and static firepower.

Thanks for the catch on plasma vs missile pods, I got their AP wrong. My bad. Yeah, at AP2, plasma might be a better bet for ya. Ignore me there.

If you're running the Hammerheads correctly (behind the bulk of your force, utilize that 72" range!) you won't have enemies within 18" of them on turn 2 or, ideally, ever.

And if you really want to reopen the Kroot argument, I can do it. I'll tell you why they suck. They're GEqs that do everything poorly. They've got worse initiative than almost everything they're going to assault, and only two attacks on the charge. They have rapid fire weapons, and no pistols or even the option for an assault weapon, so they can't ever shoot and assault. Their WS3 is going to win them plenty of friends among the enemy in close combat, and their complete lack of armor and T3 makes them squishy as all hell, unless they have a Shaper, in which case they get to pay extra points for a whopping 6+ armor save. They have no option whatsoever that gives them an invuln save. And the worst part is they can't benefit from markerlights. The only reason I would ever even consider running Kroot is for Kroot hounds, but even they're too expensive for what they do. For the same points as 17 Kroot you can take 12 FW, which are going to lay down a lot more hurt (S5AP5 30" vs S4AP6 24") and can benefit from markerlights, which every infantry-heavy Tau army needs to have in spades - even mech armies benefit greatly from them.

As for the comment on Broadsides, why not? Because you can just as easily have a Hammerhead, which does essentially the same thing but does it on the move. Yes, having your railguns twin-linked is nice, but the ability to move 6" and still fire, plus the subordinance which is a godsend against Horde armies (B-sides only have solid shot) makes the Hammerhead a better bet.

And the truth is, if you want to get some Kroot and infiltrate, go for it... if you're in forested terrain. If you're not, congratulations. Your Kroot are now dead weight.

SaintHazard wrote:My experience has been that Tau work best as one or the other, not both. Don't get me wrong, it can be done, but I've always had more success running a Castle Up strategy than a mix of mobility and static firepower.

Thanks for the catch on plasma vs missile pods, I got their AP wrong. My bad. Yeah, at AP2, plasma might be a better bet for ya. Ignore me there.

If you're running the Hammerheads correctly (behind the bulk of your force, utilize that 72" range!) you won't have enemies within 18" of them on turn 2 or, ideally, ever.

And if you really want to reopen the Kroot argument, I can do it.

Not really. I know why they're *weak*, for al the reasons you cite, except for the ones you got technically incorrect.

SaintHazard wrote:I'll tell you why they suck. They're GEqs that do everything poorly. They've got worse initiative than almost everything they're going to assault, and only two attacks on the charge.

3 attacks on the Charge. Their gun counts as 2 CC weps, plus one for the charge.

SaintHazard wrote: They have rapid fire weapons, and no pistols or even the option for an assault weapon, so they can't ever shoot and assault. Their WS3 is going to win them plenty of friends among the enemy in close combat,

My codex and Rule Book has their WS listed at 4.

SaintHazard wrote:As for the comment on Broadsides, why not? Because you can just as easily have a Hammerhead, which does essentially the same thing but does it on the move. Yes, having your railguns twin-linked is nice, but the ability to move 6" and still fire, plus the subordinance which is a godsend against Horde armies (B-sides only have solid shot) makes the Hammerhead a better bet.

B-sides have survivability. 2 to 3 suits, plus 2 to 6 Shield Drones are incredibly hard to kill. A Railhead can blow its DisPod roll, and then die in one shot. XV88s?

I like both units, for different reasons.


Oh, I'm going AFK, Away From Keyboard so we'll pick this up a few hours later today, eh?

All right, I think Brothererkose has some better points here. I'll probably change the sniper teams for another hammerhead and make the B-sides harder to kill. Thanks for both of your help, i'll keep in touch with how my tau go. Thanks.

Brothererekose wrote:3 attacks on the Charge. Their gun counts as 2 CC weps, plus one for the charge.

Alright, forgot about the blades. 3 attacks it is.

Brothererekose wrote:My codex and Rule Book has their WS listed at 4.

That's a typo. I'm looking at all their other 3s, had 3s on the brain. You're correct, but WS 4 still isn't great, especially against Nids (higher), Orks (comparable) or anything else you're likely to face in close combat.

Brothererekose wrote:B-sides have survivability. 2 to 3 suits, plus 2 to 6 Shield Drones are incredibly hard to kill. A Railhead can blow its DisPod roll, and then die in one shot. XV88s?

I like both units, for different reasons.

Gonna go ahead and refute this one simply by virtue of it being infantry and not a vehicle, meaning there are an absolute plethora of weapons out there than can lay down some serious hurt on Broadsides. Theoretically an Ork with a Big Shoota can take one down with some lucky rolls. On the other hand, 13 front armor on a Hammerhead means everything short of LC, ML, melta weapons, and plas cannons are useless against it - and if you're running the Hammerhead correctly, only the LC and ML and maybe the plasma cannons will be able to even get in range to hit it, and they're going to hit front armor. Again, if you're running it correctly.

Brothererekose wrote:Oh, I'm going AFK, Away From Keyboard so we'll pick this up a few hours later today, eh?

Word.