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Fluff Questions.

I'm writing some Home-Brew Fluff for a Chapter of my own invention, the Vultures Vermilion, (Tell me if you like, or don't like, the name!), and have a few questions to ask, of the Fluff Variety.

- Can Imperial Guard become Space Marines? For example, could a Commissar who has excelled himself in battle be transferred to a Space Marine Legion, and made a Company Captain?

- Is the First Company Captain also the Chapter Master?

- How would a Fleet-Based Chapter, or its main Fleet-Based contingent, re-stock, re-fuel, and re-equip? Would they have planets with whom they were friendly, or would they have to make it back to their chapter keep?

1. No you can't become a SM after a certain age (early to mid teens I think)
2. Nope the CM and 1st Captain are normally separate people
3. They could probably restock at any Imperial world really as long as that world has the supplies spare, or they could go to a Forge World.

Thanks for the superb, quick response!

Couldn't they kind of Shoe-Horn in the Space Marine Genetics Programme thing, in a similar way to the way Chaos can, or even comparably to how the Mechanicus slowly lose their humanity as they are update and adapted with new machinery? Could it be a 'One-Off, First-Time, Experiment'? I really want to write some Fluff about a Commissar becoming the Third Company Captain!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also,

- How, and how much, does the organisation of a Chapter which has a Fleet-Based Contingent as its main asset vary from one which operates solely from a Home World?

These answers are all in your Codex.

And no, the Commisar becomes Marine thing is right out no matter how you slice it.

Ehhh, the answers aren't quite so cut and dry as these folks are making them seem. Try this on for size.

1. Depends on the recruiting practices of the chapter. If they're a codex chapter, they won't be recruiting past age 14, however I have seen some examples of very well-written homebrew fluff that included a SM chapter and an IG regiment from the same planet that work very closely together, and several distinguished veterans from the IG regiment were honored with power armor and the Black Carapace and made Space Marines. However keep in mind that you need to be careful when writing this kind of fluff, because 1) many Space Marine implants wouldn't take in an older patient and 2) this is a really good way to get the attention of the Inquisition, which you really don't want.

2. Again, depends on whether this is a codex chapter or not. The Codex Astartes is very clear about how the chain of command in a Space Marine chapter works. The Chapter Master may not command a company of Marines. Doing so would give him too much power. He gives orders to his Captains, and they each command a Company of 100 Marines. However, if your chapter does not follow the Codex, you can mess with these rules all you want. Again, though, the =][= may not like it.

3. They can restock wherever they damn well please. Imperial worlds are obligated to grant sanctuary and supplies to any Space Marine chapter that requests them, and any non-Imperial world that has something a Chapter wants may find themselves on the receiving end of an orbital bombardment if they don't give it up.

That's both very helpful and very appreciated, thanks for taking the time to post!

As for the Home-Brew Stuff you mentioned, any chance of a link? If not, don't worry about it, but I was thinking of something similar, believe it or not. It ties in a little with the Resupplying Question, in that they would be particularly 'friendly' with Imperial Planets, who had their own Guard Regiments. Eventually, one will be attacked, and the Guard will display courage, honour, yada yada yada, and one or two will become Space Marines. More for the Character than anything, as I particularly want a Commissar-turned-Captain.

Unfortunately, no, this is fluff from some time ago that was linked to me, I wouldn't be able to find it again if I tried.

Sounds good though. Just be aware that every Space Marine purist out there will be yelling at you that "THAT'S NOT POSSIBLE IG CAN'T BECOME SPACE MARINES YOU ARE RUINING OUR HOBBY."

See, fluff purists hate artistic license. I consider myself a fluffbuff, but I love the use of artistic license - I think it's part of what this hobby is all about.

Anyway, have fun and don't let the naysayers get you down.

Yes, I am very much a fluffhead myself, however rememeber on simple rule:
This is the 41st Millenium!

So basically, that means you have all the freedom in the world! Here are a few ideas of how to work around the fluff:

1) It states in the Dark Angels codex that once the Lion was elevated to command of his legion, his elite soldiers were converted to space marines (apart from those who were too old, who underwent transformative surgery, but didn't become marines.)
Now, I'm sure his elite soldiers weren't 13-year-olds.
Here's the interesting part: Perhaps that technology was guarded secretly by the Dark Angels for millenia, but the never needed to use it, due to a steady flow of recruits. Then imagine one of their 'child' chapters (in this case, the Vultures Vermillion, if you're ok with them being founded by the DAs, and perhaps you are as your sig is DA-based!) were having recruitment difficulties and were given the secrets of this technology by the Dark Angels. They then used it to create space marines from older people. In this case, the commissar.
(There is also an instance in the Dawn of War novels of a guardsman being marine-ified, however I don't consider these canon as they are so awful. They talk about a bolter round making a small hole in somebody's forehead, for goodness' sake!)


2) It is possible that the chapter is slightly deviant and the Master has direct control over the 1st company. Simple.


3) As it has been said, they're space marines, they can get what they want from who they want!

Hope this helps, particularly part one!

Thanks, then! That's encouraging, which is nice.

I play Deathwing, by the way; that's why I'm DA. I'm hoping to reach the Deathwing rank eventually.

Anyway, back OT, thanks again. I'll look into it further on Point 1, but the rest are pretty much sorted. Thanks for your help, everyone!

Glad to help! If you have any more questions, don't hesitate to post here or PM me.

If I don't know the answer, I can probably direct you to someone who does!

In 'Tales of Heresy', the short story 'Wolf at the Door' tells of Russ' bodyguard all clamouring to be made into Marines when the Emperor visited Fenris. The success rate was a few score out of hundreds, which apparently impressed the big E.

Good luck with your Chapter!

The HH book Descent of Angels covers the creation of the first generation of Dark Angels.

There were two levels of treatment given. Those under the age of 15 were given the full treatment and went on to become fully fledged marines. The older ones were given some treatments, but didn't grow the extra organs, or grow significantly stronger. The older members were looked upon with sympathy because they were now severely outclassed by the youngsters.

So I guess there is precedent for older humans being given some form of treatment; but they aren't going to be able to take on the full power of a marine. On the tabletop I don't think that will really matter as 99% of a Marine's benefits don't come into play.

Very interesting, that will indeed be useful, and I suppose I can use it as reference for when the Purists come knocking.

As has already been mentioned, (or alluded to) during the years of the Great Crusade, when the Emperor found his primarchs, many of them chose to bring their own personal armies into their new, shiny, Space Marine legions. Most of these would have been older than the normal age. My assumption is that the age restriction is either A) a new thing, as even more biological and technological know-how has been lost since then, or B) turning an older person into a marine is possible, but less likely to succeed. Since a failed implanting would (presumably) destroy the gene-stock which was used, it isn't done, simply for safety's sake.

Ways to get around this:

Your chapter is from a long time ago, and was lost in warp storms or something similar. They have more carefully guarded the secrets to successfully implanting the space marine organs into an adult.

Their gene-seed has mutated over the years (like a dozen or so of the 'canon' chapters) and now manifests a unique mutation: it has a much higher degree of success in OLDER recipients than younger ones. You could take this to its logical extreme, and have the mutation scale exponentially: the older the candidate, the more likely it is to work. Once implantation is done, the effects of aging are removed by their newly refurbished Space Marine physique. Greenstuff heavy wrinkles on their faces, and use a drill to remove their teeth. Paint liver spots on their skin. On a more serious note, it would make them fanatically loyal to the chapter, who rescued them from a few miserable years of torment and pain and into a life of glorious warfare, with the kind of physical power they never dreamed of in their old life.

A one time experiment. Perhaps the Commissar in question knew something so terrible that the Inquisition wanted him dead, but not bad enough to fight a whole marine chapter. If he convinced a chapter to let him join, they could get the chance to test some new implantation techniques. It just so happened to work, and after that, Bob's your uncle.

Perhaps, (just as the Inquisition will suspect in any event) his conversion IS due to heretical knowledge. Perhaps the chapter, starved for recruits, gained forbidden knowledge about biomedicine from the Tau, the Eldar, or a long buried Necron tomb. They performed secret, forbidden experiments on the Commissar to turn him into a marine, although where they go from there is up to you.


I also consider myself a 'fluffbuff', and I also think that I am pretty liberal when it comes to artistic license. Since I particularly enjoy hypothetical solutions to theoretical problems, I have done my best to give you some plausible answers. I must admit, however, I am not a huge fan of this idea. I think the ideological differences between the two are far too difficult to overcome. I can't see this working unless one or the other (the marine chapter or the commissar) has seriously deviated from the established viewpoints they typically have.

But, nice job on the name. I also picked a 'Vulture' name for my DiY chapter. Nice to see I won't be alone.

Nice one, those are all great suggestions! The 'Older is Better' Idea is a fantastic one, although I'm not sure I have the skills with GS to make it work. As for the Commissar though, that might be pretty decent. Thanks a million, mate!

What's your Chapter Name, then? We can be Friends in Vultureness.

Actually, wrinkles with GS are very easy.

Apply a very thin layer of GS to the face - and when I say very thin, you should be able to almost see through it. Then take a sculpting tool and gently press grooves into it, and then press grooves into the high points between those grooves. Sweep downward a bit to make it look like they're sagging and hey presto. Wrinkles.

If you make the GS too thick, it'll look like the face is melting, and if it's too thin, the GS will simply break, so it takes a few times to get it right, but once you do it looks awesome. And getting the right thickness is the only challenging part of the process.

After a certain age 14 or 15 they arent alowed to become sm
and they could have a few planets that they recruit from like the blood ravens and they could resuply there.

hershey555 wrote:After a certain age 14 or 15 they arent alowed to become sm
and they could have a few planets that they recruit from like the blood ravens and they could resuply there.

Okay, first of all, pay attention. We've already addressed and refuted that point, general concensus is that you're wrong.

Second, pthbthbnthbthbthbth

And, in one of the HH Space Wolves story, we learn that adults CAN undergo the process to become a full Space Marine - problem is that MOST will NOT survive!

Many of Russ' followers decided to take that chance rather than to NOT be able to follow him to the stars...

So, like most things in 40K, the answer is...

Maybe?