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So in the IG codex it says you can field 1-3 tanks in a tank squadron.My question is,do the 3 tanks for the one squadron have to move together.

Yes.

Page 64 of the main rules.

Unless otherwise noted a squadron functions like a unit would so yes they have to stay and move together.

They also gain the other downsides of a vehicle squadron as well.


**Dang Ninja Kitten**

Squadrons are usually to be avoided if possible. The only viable squadrons are sentinels, simply because they make good tarpits.

Melchiour wrote:Unless otherwise noted a squadron functions like a unit would so yes they have to stay and move together.

This.

The otherwise note, for completeness' sake, being that they only have to stay within 4 inches, not 2.

All vehicles in a squadron move together (coherency is 4", not the 2" of non-vehicle units) as a unit AND shoot at the same targets as a unit.

Yes, this means sometimes you have wasted overkill wounds.

The disadvantages of the squadron rule outweigh the advantages (easier to destroy squadrons).

chromedog wrote:
The disadvantages of the squadron rule outweigh the advantages (easier to destroy squadrons).

Like having two or three vehicles instead of one for one FOC?Or the fact that when a squadron consists of a single vehicle and an opposing unit fires at it, it reverts to the normal rules for vehicle damage results?
Them advantages? The fact that it allows one to take multiple vehicles to one slot is the advantage, if you're not going to take any merit from that fact then of course it's 'bad' but I fail to see how it's 'easier to destroy a squadron' by any measure of mathhammer... Unless you're failing a DT test before I've shot at your vehicles ^_^

Immobilized rolls count as destroyed results... is a huge downside.

having to destroy 3 tanks to get a kill point a disadvantage??

Pretty huge, but while sounding like an arse (possibly again sorry). It's never ever going to be as bad as only having one tank, I could have Two~! Now beyond failing two DT tests that one willingly drove into (still not sure if this make it 'worse' to take two tanks...) , is there any situation where is actually BAD to have two tanks for one FOC?
(and having two FOC for two tanks is not a vaild answer Mr. Smarty Pants)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or even three as Mr. Catachan pointed out

also stunned results count as shaken - this avoids having the vehicle stationary for assaults in the next turn

Thank you everyone for your answers.It really helped me out.

Further things to consider:

Disadvantage would be the size factor. A squadron of vehicles is going to be much more awkward to place and move on the battlefield. At times they are going to create a real road block for your own forces, and it will also be difficult to get full value from their weapons at times because of los issues.

Advantage would be "wound" allocation. If incoming fire destroys a the main weapon on one of the squadron, then every single hit on the squadron can then be assigned to that vehicle until its destroyed. This can mean that 4-5 weapon destroyed results on a squadron only really affect one vehicle, letting the others remain fully functional. Against amries that have a lot of anti tank weponry scattered amongst many squads this is a huge factor.


Squadrons certainly have their downsides, but being able to field 3 vehicles for the cost of only one slot is a huge advantage in and of itself. If GW ever gets a plastic kit for the hydra, expect to see squadrons in most IG armies.

Sliggoth

I think the reason they don't give us Hydra Models is cause the cost of the Forge World version basically stops all IG players from fielding nothing but Hydras, lol. The cost of normal autocannons is more expensive, and you don't get armor 12, and the bonus range, and twin linked and anti aircraft rules.

Another disadvantage is that as a squadron the wounds carry over. So, you shoot a squadron with a 3 LC pred and score 3 pens he has to take a pen on each one. Makes for a bad day when a 160pt model blows up 500ish pts in one shot.

There are a few other advantages, too:

- Vehicles in a squadron ignore each other for line of sight purposes.
- If half or more of the vehicles in a squadron are obscured, then the whole squadron gets the cover save. This means you could have one vehicle (in a two-vehicle unit) half behind a building and the other out in the open - and both would get the cover save. Or you could be really mean and pop smoke on one of the vehicles (again, in a two-vehicle unit) and give both a cover save, while still shooting with the other.
- You can dish out a ton of wounds against enemy units that may not otherwise get so many hits. For example, if a squad gets hit with a single Hellhound flamer and takes several casualties, common practice is to remove as many models as possible to prevent the next flamer from hitting as many. If those Hellhounds were in a squadron, then they'd hit more than normal and would be more likely to force wound allocation.
- If positioned properly, you could make it almost impossible to let the enemy get a side/rear armour shot on a squadron.

I'm not convinced that squadrons are only a bad thing.

The only issue is simply that "advantages" like smoke and obscured saves is starting to push the cheeze.

The disadvantages of Squadrons are legion.

First and foremost, Immobilized=dead. That returns you instantly to what effectively is the 4E damage table for the most part. This was a gross oversimplification to avoid anchor models (which really wasn't a problem) that 4E vehicle squadrons sometimes ended up with.

Then of course damage is spread around the unit and the unit has to fire all at the same target, which isn't too much of a problem as a balance factor.

However, you only need to get into contact for assaults or range for shooting with one vehicle to kill the whole squadron. With 4" coherency plus hull sizes, this means a tank may potentially be up to 16" away (using LRBT's for example, assaulting unit makes it into base contact with tank 1, 4" hull space, 4" to tank 2, 4" hull, 4" to final tank 3) from any assaulting unit once they make it into base contact with another vehicle, and still be destroyed as part of an assault, or be killed by a double pen meltagun hit from up to 22" away, not to mention being destroyed on a *3+* on a penetrate from an AP1 weapon, or a 2+ if open topped.

There's a reason you don't see people utilizing vehicle squadrons for anything more than 75pts in just about any codex. They aren't worth it, stuff is just too vulnerable.

Thanks Vak.That explained alot and helped make my mind up haha.

IMO, the LRBT squadron option is there for people who want to play an armored company. Couple vet squads in chimeras, a CCS in a chimera, and the rest - tanks.

I want to try an armored company once.Never have yet though not enough chimeras

Be careful, tanks can be brought down with a single shot... and then that's 150pts down the toilet. Infantry cost 50 points and take 10 shots (not always, but you get the point) to take down.

If you go all tank, the battle goes one of two ways. Either your opponent has enough anti tank to split your army... or they don't have any anti armor... and you roll over them.

Personally I prefer a more well rounded list.

Lt Lathrop wrote:Be careful, tanks can be brought down with a single shot... and then that's 150pts down the toilet. Infantry cost 50 points and take 10 shots (not always, but you get the point) to take down.

If you go all tank, the battle goes one of two ways. Either your opponent has enough anti tank to split your army... or they don't have any anti armor... and you roll over them.

Personally I prefer a more well rounded list.

But that's true squadron or not; so by that logic buy no models, save money and don't flush points down the toilet! Sarcasm aside, the more and more I look at the squadrons, the less and less I feel bad about taking them. The disadvantage is a 50% chance destruction if a penetrating hit instead of a 30% chance; while I wish immobilization would mean both are stuck unless the one that is immobilized is abandoned and of course destroyed so that it is not left to be captured, but them's the breaks.

And an entire tank squadron can be taken down by a single shot. A squad of fire dragons, for example, can normally only kill one tank a turn. If you've got squadrons then they can kill more. Likewise, a nobz squad can charge one vehicle in a squadron and kill the whole squadron.


Two tanks in a squadron is the sweet spot.

You get cover for the squadron if one of them is obscured.
You can spread damage about a bit.
Only one will die to immobilized (unless they both get immobilized at the same time)

With three it's too hard to get cover, two can die to immobilized results and there's too much to loose from a single attack.

How can an entire squad be brought down by a single shot? There is no "chain reaction" rules to squadrons, so a single wound/damage roll however you wish to look at it can only have one effect.


A squad of nobz rushing a squadron of tanks is not going to be a single "shot" a single turn of attacks can yes take down both, but then they can take down a much larger squad. However, prior to the Nobz getting there two battlecannons have a great deal of damage to be done to them if played out properly. Still the likely hood of a single tank lasting an assault by infantry is very low to begin with, so the exchange of having two battle cannons fire in the first two rounds instead of only one SHOULD put out enough damage to slow the coming assaults, if possible push them off to the third or fourth turn in effect doubling the fire output from your defense line before that line is destroyed whether it is comprised of squadrons or not when the assualty army gets up and personal.

Assuming you are squadroning tanks because you now have a lack of heavy support slots, then the trade offs are not that bad. However I do agree with 2 tank squadrons vs. 3, unless you're running Hydra's in a squad where 3 can be quite useful and rather deadly.

A unit can normally only kill one tank maximum per turn.

If a unit shoots at a squadron of three tanks then it can potentially kill all three.

Also, you can easily kill 3 tanks with a single Blast, though it needs for the AV to be 10 or 11, you roll like a Chaos God and for your opponent to be phenomenally dumb!

Scott-S6 wrote:Two tanks in a squadron is the sweet spot.

i agree with this Alot. i've been running 2 naked Russes in a squadron for awhile and they work well for me.

you damn right on that, 3 russes is usually overkill on most targets, 2 is just right.

IMHO the best use for a LRBT Squad is with Creed's Tactical Genius rule so you can outflank 3 at once. Trust me, first time you pull that, it will give foe a real "Oh moment"!