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My LGS had a small tournament (4 players showed up). Armies were 2250 points. 2 played Teclis, I played empire and the last was a Dwarf player. The 2 HE fought it out in the first round (pitched battle) while I fought the Dwarves (Battle for the pass). On turn 2 Teclis #1 cast The Dwellers Below and killed Teclis #2 and most of the unit he was with. The Teclis #2 player quit on the spot and cursed 8th edition magic for a good hour while my opponent and I finished our game. In a perverse way, I was amused that Teclis #2 was cursing because what he was planning to do to us happened to him. Despite the anvil wrecking and ruining my infantry blocks I was able to kill 2 units of thunders, one unit of long beards and a cannon for a victory. I lost 2 cannons (misfires) and 2 detachments of free company (10 and 15 models) and 1 detachment of 10 archers/ Alas, I knew that I would have to face Teclis for the second round. Since I won I fought the winning Teclis. The loser had a bye since a fifth player showed up.

The second battle was again Battle for the pass and terrain funneled our units so that my block of 40 spears and a detachment of 20 handgunners ended up behind a stone wall. My 2 cannons and mortar were in an elevated set of ruins. My 2 blocks of 40 swordsmen with detachments of free company and 10 archers ended up behind each other between the ruins and a hill next to the stone wall. To make along story short. Teclis chose Lore of death and hit me with Purple Sun of Xerxus and rolled a 10 on the artillery die. It hit a detachment of archers, one of my infantry blocks and 2 cannon. Since the cannon failed their Initiative tests (they always fail) we played that they died. With the other unsaved wounds he had another 11 dice and pounded my units some more but no units broke or were destroyed. I only had a level one wizard with the rod of power. For the whole game I was only able to dispel one spell because he always rolled irresistible force. He was able to run down one of my infantry blocks, kill the mortar which had devastated Teclis' spear/bow unit with 2 direct hits and a 2" deviation that still landed on the unit. I ended up winning because my remaining swordsmen block (now down to 22) 7x3+1 charged Teclis' unit which fled?! and I rolled an 11 for the charge so I caught them.

My thoughts: these were my 6th &7th games of 8th edition. Up to this point magic has not been much of an issue (3 games vs. Dwarves, 1 vs. Chaos demons (he miscast a lot), 1 vs. Vampire counts, 1 vs. He, 2 vs. Orc/Goblins), but Teclis opened my eyes to how powerful magic can be but just vs. him. I might start taking the Feedback scroll because I know that I will face him again and there doesn't seem to be much point in trying to dispel his other spells which are irresistibly cast. I was rather annoyed that Purple sun just kills war machines or did we play it incorrectly? After my first 3 games I gave up on Pistoliers and after my 5th game I gave up on my knights and Steam Tank. Now I run larger infantry blocks (40) of swordsmen or spears with detachments of archers and free company although I have 20 handgunners, 2 cannons and a mortar, 3 combat lords, 2 battle captains (BSB) and a level 1 wizard. My infantry trudge across the field while I whittle away at his infantry with my shooting. My opponents do the same with cannons or magic. We do between 600-800 points of damage to each other and someone wins by 100 points. Is this your experience too? Crushing victories are really difficult.

All the games i've been playing (all at 3000 pts) have been absolutley devastating, well over 2000 pts of damage being done to each army. Maybe its harder to win big in smaller games??

Also, i've had a lot of success with a unit of 15 knights (lance and shield) with FC and Razor banner (Armour piercing). Join them with a Grand Master with Sword of Sigismund (ASF, +1 S) and Shroud of Magnus (5+ ward, MR(2)) and a Captain with barded horse, fp armour, shield, Terrifying Mask of Eee (causes terror), Ironcurse icon (6+ ward against WM) and Wyrmslayer sword (wounds on 4+, no scaly skin sv).

This unit can be absolutely devastating, in 1 game they killed outright 2 blocks of 30 Plague Monks and a block of 20 clanrats!

It's not that the battles weren't "devastating" it's just harder to score points since you have to wipe out entire units. In my battle vs. Teclis, he had 18 models left and had I rolled an "8" on the charge vs. the bolt throwers he would have lost those also to the wonder unit swordsmen of swift charging. Even with them dead it would not have been a crushing victory since he had 3 partial units left that I just couldn't get to.

Your not supposed to be able to pick your lores between games, (unless teclis has a special rule). Its supposed to be included in your army roster...

Good report, I hate teclis with a burning passion, that character needs to be at lest twice as much as he currently is.

Man over all sounds like alot of fun tournament! I haven't been able to get a game in with the new rules considering i just bought the book, it sounds very solid and lots of fun no longer chess IMO. Also the other HE just quit? man, i dont like playing guys like that.. sorry to hear that, what happen to the 5th guy that showed up?

Tevlis was about 300 points undercosted before. I thinly he's easily a 1000 model now. Used to be he had to be in the front rank so he had to take shots in hth. No more now since he can hide away in the 2nd rank now so his T 2 doesn't mean a whole lot any more.

how can he hide in second rank? I know he can if you run a unit only 3 wide because command has to be in front, but if you do that then you have no ranks...

tiekwando wrote:how can he hide in second rank? I know he can if you run a unit only 3 wide because command has to be in front, but if you do that then you have no ranks...

You could have 2 other Characters in the front rank.

Ah that makes sense. Of course 700 points worth of characters in a single unit is asking for problems but a somewhat valid tactic nontheless.

page 490, spell generation, pick your lore when you pick your army. technically he cheated.

Magic is absolutely brutal, and you need to bring your own brutal magic if you want to compete against it. Personally, i wouldn't bring any doom spells unless my opponent has them as well.

You can also play larger games as well, magic doesn't scale and you have the same access to powerdice in 500 as you do in 3000 (~ish) but you have a much larger army to mitigate it and soak up the damage.

Finally, you appear to have a lot of warmachines. If you're pissed off about teclis you also need to consider how other people might feel against a gunline...

comrade_nikolai wrote:page 490, spell generation, pick your lore when you pick your army. technically he cheated.

Teclis' High Loremaster rule stats that he picks a Lore before the battle begins, unless the FAQ changed it.

Tzeentchling9 wrote:

comrade_nikolai wrote:page 490, spell generation, pick your lore when you pick your army. technically he cheated.

Teclis' High Loremaster rule stats that he picks a Lore before the battle begins, unless the FAQ changed it.

I was actually thinking about this very thing. The BRB makes it so people can't tailor their magic to their opponent unless of course they know who they are going to play. So in a tournament, you have to choose your magic when you make the list and submit it. Then you choose spells before deployment or whatever. However, Teclis, according to the High Elves book can choose the lore right before the game. Which makes him that much better.

Teclis is a pain in modern games. From what I've seen, most people go Life with him and go 6D6 Throne of Vines (for the bonus to buffs) then shell out another 6D6 on one of the spells: Earth Blood to give a cheap 4+ "Ward" (Regen) to a unit, or Flesh to Stone to make something nigh impossible to wound. Of course, that HElf player played "conservatively".

Best way to counter Teclis is to deprive their army of PD or make casting risky. Find which unit has the +PD banner and quickly gib it, snipe wizards if you have the potential, magic items that take someone's PD, Ring of Hotek, the Ogre Pelt that causes Miscasts on 1's, 2's, and 6's doubles, and so on. Teclis is a bit pricey, so often times if you can neuter his PD base and you're playing under 3K points you just hit their battle plans hard. Heck, even just a single lucky Hex Scroll can say "Feth you!" to Teclis as suddenly all that magical power-housing has been neutered for some time.

Your goal against Teclis is to increase your number of DD and decrease his number of PD. You do this, you have a shot at silencing him. Or, of course, you can just fire three cannons and three grudge throwers at him on the first turn (If Dwarves) and rely on the fact that you should cause some hurt eventually.

Minsc wrote:
Your goal against Teclis is to increase your number of DD and decrease his number of PD. You do this, you have a shot at silencing him. Or, of course, you can just fire three cannons and three grudge throwers at him on the first turn (If Dwarves) and rely on the fact that you should cause some hurt eventually.

Which is why teclis should automatically go in a unit of phoenix guard.

Had my 1st game of 8th today at 2,500.
Again, teclis is something else.
I see every Helf tournament army taking him without thought now.

Finally killed him though (game was a win to him though) but that was only after smahing into his teclis unit with a HPA and a doomwheel.

Other than that, shooting wasnt a real issue.
Storm banner kicked out for 3 turns, so helped me get about without the fear of bows.
I did however mess up by taking queek with 2 lvl2 warlocks and a BSB.
I think next game it will be a case of swapping out queek for a grey seer.

Also learned that the doomwheel is alot better in game than it looks on paper.
Just a shame i had to run a block of slaves to absorb its 1st turn shooting at myself (failed the LD)


All in all though, i can see 8th being a magic heavy game now.
Warmachines get smashed quickly and dont get a real chance to do much.
My plagueclaw got 2 shots off before killing its self, the 2 rattling guns blew up in turns 3 & 4 (did a fair bit of damage though)

Queek however done well, in his small unit of 20 vermin (needs to be bigger next time) just went on a killing spree, beating and chasing down everything in thier way.

I want to test snikch, however his points seem a bit too drastic to do this unless im playing against a WoC player with alot of characters.

A block of slaves will lose at most, 3 models per round from the doomwheel shooting. Not the biggest deal.

Shivan, i know its not alot, but needed a shield unit so it wasnt shooting the vermin (wanted them both going up the left flank, but needed something to stop the shots hitting the vermin)
So while it was 40 slaves i didnt need, they had to be used as a block whenever the wheel wasnt in combat.

I think next time ill drop the wheel for a 2nd HPA and see how it goes.
Got gobbo's next, so another monster wouldnt go amiss.

Use a rat dart, 5 giants rats with one packmaster, its like 23 points iirc.

Also i wouldnt take a second hell pit unless you want to be TFG..Unless the lists are WAAC, then go for it.

Why take a rat dart? when they run off it will cause panic, something slaves dont do when they run.

I do have a unit of 60 giant rats (50 rats, 10 pack masters) but thats just because ive been buying Rogres and monks.


So taking a 2nd HPA makes me TFG?
Im playing against a gobbo army this week that boasts around 20 fanatics. (i think, may be more or less)
Also i just played a magic heavy Helf list with teclis.


Not much of friendly enviroment in WHFB near me, tends to be mainly WAAC players or convertion mad players (dont game much though)
So i rather go in with my high hand than take something average, when ill no doubt be playing something stupid.



40k wise players are the same here, but ive played 40k for ages, so i know what to expect and the best way to stop it.


Being new to WHFB im having to simply roll with whoever i play and learn as i go.
Rather get smashed 10 games in a row and learn tons than go 5 wins, 5 losses and learn little.

Also, thinking about how magic now dominates, im tempted with going magic heavy skaven, or kairos daemons (got 7k points of 40k daemons, just need to change bases)