Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

There's a huge ongoing debate between people who think AC razors are the shiznit, and people who prefer the lascannon or las/plas versions.

The short version of the argument goes like this:

AC proponent, "Assault cannons kill everything better than lascannons!"

Las proponent, "Unless it's 25" away."

Personally I've used both and I much prefer las/plas.

General_Chaos wrote:

Well with the Lascannon and TL Plasma Guns seem nice but I don't like the fact you move 6" you can only fire one or the other. If you moving 6" TL Assault Cannons can put multiple wounds down range where a Las/Plas can only do one unless your 12" then you can double tap.

This is only an issue if you're playing your army as a "rush your transports forward all the time" army. Here's how it works in actual gameplay:

Early game: fire the lascannon at long range against transports (except not land raiders) to strand enemy troops on the other side of the table.

Midgame: advance to claim objectives or hold the center of the board or whatever. Sometimes you fire the lascannon here, sometimes the plasma shot is better because it's twin-linked.

Late game: As heavy infantry and stuff comes within 12" of you, massed razorbacks each firing 3XAP2 shots (2/3 of them twin-linked) can cripple or wipe out whole units of marines or terminators or whatever (even in cover, or in spite of storm shields or FNP), or clear objectives held by heavy infantry so that your own guys can claim it.

Sometimes, like in a KP game where you're up by a couple of points, you want to hide way off on your side of the board and plink at drop pods for bonus points or whatever. The lascannon lets you do that. Sometimes your opponent has a deepstriking deathstar that he's going to throw in your face early in the game, and a mass of razorbacks that can pour out those str7 & 9 AP2 shots in the turn after it drops will be at least a deterrent, at best a game-changer.

Assault cannons really only give you the one option: close to mid-range and roll dice, hoping to get a 6.

Also when you say that an assault cannon scores more wounds, you're not counting the 2-3 extra turns of shooting that the lascannon got as the monstrous creature (or whatever) ran across the table.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I should also add, though, that I do still sometimes use an assault cannon razorback. If it's a razor that I know is going to be moving forward to the center--like the one carrying my librarian into psychic hood range or whatever--then I'll sometimes use the AC turret on that one because it adds flexibility to the army as a whole.

All Assault Cannon razorbacks in an army--which I've seen before--has that major weakness, though, that if you run into a standoff army, like fully-mech Eldar or some Tau builds, they'll pick you apart from outside your range and you'll never get a shot at em.

Yeah, making the tank fast, as in BA, changes the whole question. Range matters a lot less when you can move 12" and shoot.

Right, and I should also specify that I'm assuming at least 3, and preferably 4-6 razorbacks--of whatever type--in the army, plus other vehicles in order for it all to work. If you're taking fewer than 3 and few or no other vehicles, then you can expect your razorbacks to get blown up without accomplishing much.

If you're taking only 1 or 2, you're better off with rhinos.

Monster Rain wrote:The points cost alone keeps me from upgrading my RBs... If you have the points though the Assback(love that phrase) is a really nice thing to have around.

Well you can always drop 5 guys from your tac squad to pay for the razorback. That's how razor spam works.

A rhino with a full tac squad gives you 10 guys, a special weapon, a heavy weapon that can't move & shoot, and an AR11 vehicle for about 225-250 points.

A razorback with 5 guys gives you 5 fewer guys, but a combi (codex marines) or special (SW/BA) weapon, a heavy weapon that moves & shoots, and an AR11 vehicle for about 150-180 points.

So you can get about 3 razors for about the same cost as 2 rhinos, netting you 5 fewer guys, but one extra scoring unit, one extra special & heavy weapon that can move & shoot, and an extra vehicle.