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Hi all,

I have loved Eldar since the first time i saw 40K. I really want to start playing Eldar. I was wondering if some suggestions could be made regarding a 1500 PT Eldar list thats fun for friendly play but still capable of winning. My friends group currently field the following armies:

Tau
Blood Angels
Tyranid
Eldar
Dark Templars
Space Marines

I am still new to the game so less complicated tactics will be helpful.

Thanks in advance.

Couple Questions:

What does you model budget look like?
How fast can/do you want to assemble your army?
What is the other Eldar typically play?
Have you noticed a trend in what you play style is with any similar games?

Well, Eldar is not the easiest army to play and its generally not forgiving when you make mistakes.
I'd play a mech Eldar army with several Serpents and 2 Fire Prisms.

Yer best off buying:
1. The BForce box. ~$100 American
2. 2 more WarWalkers to go with the one in the BF box (assemble with dual Scatter Lasers) for a trio of them
3. Another two WaveS for a total of 3 minimum
4. Box of Fire Dragons (just the one box of 6 models)
5. Box of Dire Avengers or Rangers/Pathfinders (Rs and PFs are the same models, just one is up-graded).
6. Either Scorpions or Banshees (box plus two blister packs for a full crew of 10 models)- both have their applied uses

Gets pricey, huh? Ball-park $300+ for new models. I dumb-lucked into an army that had been traded in to the LGS, and scooped up a lot of that for only $100 or so.

All that yields:
A. 3.5 troop choices which are 25 DireAvengers (or 15 DAs and one Ranger unit) and the guardians from the BF box.
B. Good anti-Tank from the FireDragons
C. Good h2h unit - Banshees or Scorps
D. Mobility - three WaveS
E. One Heavy Support choice

You still need an HQ. Farseer is cheapest, but Avatars and Autarchs have their fun applications. Farseer for a nooB is my recommendation, though. There's a box of either:
Eldar Seer Council (5 models) $45
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440239a&prodId=prod1060064
or
Farseer and Warlock bodyguard (4 models). $30

The second box is better, IMHO, as you're paying another $15 for that 2nd farseer.

Other HeavySupport: Explore your options. Dark Reapers are hella good vs. Marines, but Fire Prism tanks dish up incredible punishment, and can take it too.

Lastly, to make a stupidly easy list that hardly ever loses (often Draws), spend your money to have a WaveS for every unit and run Mech-Eldar. But that's even more expensive.

When I play smaller games, I use the following Eldar list (1250):

Farseer w/ Doom/Guide/Witnessing/Spirit Stones

10 Dire Avengers w/ Exarch, Dual Catapults, Bladestorm
Wave Serpent w/ TL ShuriCannons

10 Dire Avengers w/ Exarch, Diresword, Bladestorm
Wave Serpent w/ TL ShuriCannons

6 Fire Dragons w/ Exarch, Flamer and Crackshot
Wave Serpent w/ TL Missile Launcher

5 Dire Avengers (no upgrades)
Falcon w/ Brightlance, Holofield

Wraithlord w/ Missile Launcher/flamers



This is not a battleforce army by any means, but it is compact and effective. There are spare points to buy spirit stones on the vehicles or mix it up a little. I usually just take the stones.

Fire Prisms are great in pairs or trios, but I prefer to take Falcons and Wraithlords... just because there are so many Prisms everywhere. Templates just never seem to work for me anyway.


Tricks in this army include the following:

Wraithlords are incredible tarpits (except against poisoned attacks, so beware 'Nids!), and most bog standard infantry simply cannot hurt them.

Bladestorm + Wave Serpents are great. Move 12" into position, drop your squad, put out 32 S4/AP 5 shots. If there is a Farseer involved it gets even better - the re-rolls to hit and wound are simply devastating. The following turn they cannot shoot (if using Bladestorm for extra shots), so they get back into their transport and fly away to (relative) safety.

This army has very little combat potential, but if points can be found to put Defend on the Diresword squad they can tar up for a turn or two pretty well. That's mainly what the Wraithlord is for.

'Crack Shot' allows the Fire Dragons exarch to fire as though using a twin-linked weapon, which allows rerolls when using a flamer template. Fire Dragons often have to be used suicidally, but they make a hell of a mess with a round of shooting. Throw them at terminators or a key power armour squad if there are no vehicles to target with them.

Eldar Missile Launchers can cause pinning with the plasma round, and it also counts as a 'defensive weapon', which benefits the Falcon if taken as secondary weapon.

Spirit stones really are worth it on those vehicles.

This army will have trouble against Tau unless you're lucky, because although Eldar pack a lot of firepower it's mostly short to medium range. I like to play a pretty finessey game so this list might not be for everyone, but I like it.

Thanks for the replies

I don't really have a budget, I can buy any models required. I don't really understand the play styles of my friends yet since I am still learning the rules.

I have read that the Edlar are unforgiving but I don't really "feel" any of the other armies.

I like wraithlords, my favorite model of all the ones I have seen so far.

Wave Serpents are transports used to house the Dire Avengers? and rangers?

I also like harlequins and howling banshees, can they be put in the army?

Say

10 Dire Avengers - Exarch - Bladestorm
10 Dire Avengers - Exarch - Bladestorm
10 Howling Banshees - Exarch / 6 harlequins?

2 Wave Serpernts
2 Wraithlords

6 Pathfinders

How does the above base look for an army?

I am not certain which HQ to take? i like the Avatar, but he is not that good in a highly mobile list, seems like he will be better in a footslog type army with many guardians.

10 Dire Avengers - Exarch - Bladestorm
10 Dire Avengers - Exarch - Bladestorm
10 Howling Banshees - Exarch / 6 harlequins?

2 Wave Serpernts
2 Wraithlords

6 Pathfinders

Well, Banshees need a transport. The same holds for Harlies in an otherwise mech army.
Static units in a fast moving army are a liability.
The only exception are Pathfinders as they can be deployed (as infiltrators)
to keep the enemy away from your tanks in 1st turn.

Sadly Eldar are generally pretty limited in the units/lists that they can take and still be competitive. Also most of their units are overpriced for their performance/effectiveness, even only picking the most effective units you are still stuck with very expensive transports and troop choices. For starters, most of the assault based units are very difficult to use effectively as you can't assault out of Serpents/Falcons if they moved that turn and except for Harlies, none of the Eldar assault units are usable outside of transports (way too fragile). This means you have to be in the perfect spot (too close and you get surrounded/blocked and can't get out, too far away and they can back up) the turn before, which means most of the time you get hit in the face before you can actually do anything. Thats not to say that Banshees/Scorpions are unusable, but they aren't going to make it into many truly competitive lists. If you like Banshees then by all means take them, just don't expect too much from them.

Harlies can see some use because they are usable outside of transports with Veil of Tears, they see quite a bit of use in Foot based Eldar lists because of this (in Mech lists they are too slow and if you get them a transport you run into the same issue as Banshees etc +they are usually the odd one out being the only real combat based unit in the list). Veil allows them to stand just about anywhere (including in front of the rest of your army in position to screen them) and avoid most if not all incoming fire. Smaller units of 6 or so with a couple of Fusion Pistols work well as a good troubleshooting units which can deal with most things but larger units can work as well (its just usually Foot Lists need all the anti tank they can get so would rather take 2 x 6 with Fusion Pistols rather than a single counter charge unit).

I would definitely suggest that a new Eldar player starts off with a mech based list if they can afford it (be very careful about saying you don't have a budget lol), Eldar can't really do semi-mech very well at all and while Foot based lists are usable, they aren't generally as powerful as mech lists and are harder to use. Mech is generally the way to go for any 40k list in 5th edition, Mechdar is often considered easy to play but is still far harder than any Marine list due to the fragile, overpriced transports. However if you really want to have Wraithlords then you probably should run a foot based list. That list you have there is a perfect example of semi mech (i.e half on foot, half mech) which I would definitely try and avoid, and Wraithlords don't really work in mech lists (too slow, need to be babysat to avoid Wraithsight). Just be aware that despite being T8 there are a huge range of things out there which can easily deal with it, it is very difficult to get cover with so a couple of Lascannons/Missile Launchers can drop it in couple of turns.

For a foot based list you want Guardians with Scatter Lasers or EML (or Bright Lances if you are desperate for AT) for troops, Wraithlords or War Walkers for Heavy, Warp Spiders for FA and Harlies as Elites. Avoid completely static units like Dark Reapers or Rangers if you can (you want to be able to move around even if it is slowly) and don't take terrible units like Hawks or Support Weapons.

If you do decide to go the Mech route, to start with you need a couple of Wave Serpents and Dire Avengers to go in them, you can either run 10 with Bladestorm or 5 naked so that whatever they are riding in is now a scoring unit (often referred to as DAVU). Next you need some Fire Dragons along with Serpents to ride in, probably 2 units of 5-6 as pretty much any mech list should have Fire Dragons (all my 1750-2000pt lists have two units, higher than that and I add a third). For Heavy Support I recommend going with Fire Prisms initially, ideally take them in pairs. At higher (1500+) point levels Falcons are definitely another good place for DAVU units, but compete for slots. Other viable units include Vypers, an Autarch, Storm Guardians with Flamers (in a Serpent) and to a lesser extent Jetbikes (if you can't find the points for another Serpent usually) and War Walkers (slow so can get left behind).

Unfortunately there isn't really a cheap way to build a decent Eldar army, the Battleforce (like most Battleforces really) gives you a semi mech force, so either way you probably end up not using some of it once you focus your list.

As far as HQ choices go, a Farseer is a great choice for any army and isn't too expensive points wise. Both Guide and Doom are incredible support powers, as is Fortune (just less useful for most Eldar unit except for Jetbike Councils) and Runes of Warding gives you great psychic defense for cheap. Eldrad is effectively 1.5 Farseers, but up till around 2000pts you are generally fine with just a Farseer (and Mech lists are better with two seperate Farseers as his added abilities are mostly wasted). Unless you are running a very specialised list (something like a Dual Autarch Reserve based list) then you should usually take a Farseer as your first HQ choice and add a second if you have the points. An Avatar is another good choice but definitely doesn't fit in a mech army. An Autarch is probably the opposite, works well in a mech army but not worth it for a foot list. You can take him to add some punch to a unit but mostly you are taking him just for the reserves bonus.

Hope this helps.

+1 to what Powerguy has said.

Eldar are an aging codex now, and was also made at a time when a different design philosophy was present at GW.
There's a lot of units that aren't very good - either because they weren't very good at time of release or because of changes to the game due to the shift to 5th edition, or the release of other codicies.

"Safe" stuff to buy that's useful in most lists are Dire Avengers, Fire Dragons and Wave Serpents to transport them.

Eldar units are considered not so good as others because they require more tactics and subtlety to use.

Imo, by playing Eldar you'll be looking to improve your tactics skills and battle plans. Always useful no matter which army you play.

By the way: welcome to the Eldar

@Powerguy - thanks for all the info.

I have hear a couple of players in other playing groups talk about playing a heavy footslog army. Using the Avatar and lots of Guardians / Dire Avengers.

Can there be a spot for the wraith lords with the Avatar in a list like that?

Maybe play the following sort of combination:

HQ

Farseer - Keep Wraithlords powered up
Avatar - Keep the army Fearless

Elites

Harlequins - cooleness factor and anti-tank if required

Troops

Dire Avengers - base troops (Probably Exarch - Bladestorm)
Dire Avengers - base troops (Probably Exarch - Bladestorm)
Guardians - Not sure what to do with these guys, Heavy weapons playform maybe?
Guardians - Not sure what to do with these guys, Heavy weapons playform maybe?

Heavy Support

Wraithlord - Coolness factor and anti-tank
Wraithlord - Coolness factor and anti-tank




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lord Rogukiel wrote:Eldar units are considered not so good as others because they require more tactics and subtlety to use.

By the way: welcome to the Eldar

I like the subtlety of this army, they seem like they CAN be super powerful. And I like the fluff.

And thanks for the welcome.

I started playing Eldar 2 years ago because I wanted toy spaceships, and an army that would make me better as a player- hence unforgiving, it seems to be working lol, but its been a tough start for me and lots of hard lessons about what my units can and cannot do. If you are not afraid of that, then Eldar are a great army. Just remember you'll never be straight up as powerful as the new Codecies are until Eldar get redone.

Onwards to your list,

If you are going for a foot list, with the avatar and wraithlords, you should probably do a castle formation.

Eldrad is great in foot eldar lists, he allows you to cast fortune 2 times, once on the Avatar, once on something else, then cast a 3rd power, such as doom or guide on your other units. Always take him in foot eldar lists if points allow, you'll need the powers.

Avatar is awesome

harlies, make sure you give em a shadow seer and kisses. Without harlequin kisses they'll fall flat on their face, and without a shadow seer they'll get shot to ribbons. add fusion pistols to taste

Your troops need a bit of work. Did you know that wraithguard are tall enough to give a cover save to wraithlords? and that guardians are tall enough to give a cover save to wraith guard?

so I would say add a 10 strong unit of wraithguard with a spirit seer and conceal. This counts as a troop, is rock hard, and an excellent body guard for your man eldrad. (as well as a great candidate for fortune).

After you get those units, some other things you'll want are guardian squads and warlocks with conceal and singing spears. I would equip them with eldar missile launchers or bright lances depending on whether you are feeling lucky.

If you want an avenger squad I would only run one, and I would take them with the exarch, with a power weapon and shimmer shield and defend. Use them to eat inevitable charges, and hold the line while you wait for your harlequins, wraithlord, or avatar to bail them out. Without a heavy weapon however, they won't be able to shoot transports from afar like a lucky guardian eml. So I wouldn't take too many, transports are the bane of your existence.

Then of course your 3 wraithlords. Probably should either be eml + lance, to get as much anti tank as possible (something foot eldar needs) or lance and sword, the sword re rolls to hits in close combat, which is useful after the lords get stuck in.

Then you make a big castle, where all your big guys get cover saves, and you march into your enemy. When you get into range, they'll feel the pain.

Eldar is not an army for starters. As I said the army is not forgiving. If you make a mistake, it will cost you the game. Generally, you need to think one or two turns ahead. But this is never wrong with any army.

Even though you endorse elder here:

Lord Rogukiel wrote:Imo, by playing Eldar you'll be looking to improve your tactics skills and battle plans. Always useful no matter which army you play. By the way: welcome to the Eldar

This seems silly:

Lord Rogukiel wrote:Eldar units are considered not so good as others because they require more tactics and subtlety to use.

Dire Avengers: Unload 3 shots (BladeStorm) per trooper then assault with 2 more dice, while the opponent is hampered by Defend, and PW/SS even helps with Invulns.
Scorpions: 36 dice on the charge, 4 more for Exarch power claw?
Mind War allows for sniping any model with Leadership.
Mech elder needing tactics? Move 12" every turn, burn down every tank with BrightLances. *if* the opponent manages to bring one down then the other tanks lend fire cover to the infantry now on the ground. Zoom in at the bottom of a Turn to contest/secure objectives.

That army I mentioned earlier that I got at a bargain? The guy who owned it dumped it as he was bored because he'd only lost once, a good number of Draws and the majority Wins. I did not buy the four WaveS that were in the cabinet, just one. I bought the infantry models to play foot slogging elder, for the challenge.

Mech tau don't have it as nice.


Okay, rant over.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

phyrephly wrote:Can there be a spot for the wraith lords with the Avatar in a list like that?

Absolutely. A Monstrous Creature list is a tough one for opponents to beat who forget lotsa high STR weapons.

phyrephly wrote:Farseer - Keep Wraithlords powered up

Fortuned WLs and Avatars are nigh impossible to kill. So, take Fortune with this set up.

phyrephly wrote:
Harlequins - cooleness factor and anti-tank if required

Fragile and do require that 'subtle use' mentioned by several players. A pain in the rear to paint too. Mine are still unprimered.

phyrephly wrote:Dire Avengers - base troops (Probably Exarch - Bladestorm)

Definitely exarch for a full 10 elf crew. Both the dual Catapult exarch and PW/SS exarch are good, although I prefer the latter. BladeStorm and Defend powers too.

phyrephly wrote:Guardians - Not sure what to do with these guys, Heavy weapons playform maybe?

The Heavy Platform is perfunctory, and rarely game altering. My guardians are still unprimered.

*If* you use them, then a 12 to 16 elf unit, supported with a Warlock (Embolden or Enhance). Often, they're a good screen with the Avatar, as he boosts their hardiness with his Fearless bubble. A Scatter Laser for the Heavy Wep to stay all anti-Infantry. I don't agree, but many players like to make this a BrightLance as they think the guardians' guns are not worthwhile anyway.

phyrephly wrote:Wraithlord - Coolness factor and anti-tank
Wraithlord - Coolness factor and anti-tank

Bright Lance and EML if going with the anti-Tank WLord.

What roles can the wraithguard play?

wraithguard provide cover to the wraith lords, in addition to having excellent guns for killing heavy infantry / tanks that wander too close. They are also t6 with a 3+ save and (which re rolls with fortune) and fearless, so they will hold the line in an assault, after which the harlies, wraithlords, and avatar can come in to bail em out.

They are also scoring. Basically they serve as a big anchor in this type of list. A tough scoring unit which marches up the board, towards the enemies objectives and can take alot of punishment from shooting. Any shots at your wraith guard are not shots going at lords and the avatar. and at t6, they are incredibly durable to small arms fire.

According to the Codex they required a full set of ten to be counted a scoring unit is this correct?

phyrephly wrote:According to the Codex they required a full set of ten to be counted a scoring unit is this correct?

Yes, and I don't plan on them in any list under 1850. They're a big points since, considering the Warlock, and keeping the farseer nearby with Fortune. Still, I've had a wee bit of fun using them for the last month (finally painted the whole crew).

... but ... for fun, I might just try them out as a tougher FireDragon crew and put 'em in a WaveS, and send half of them and their WraithCans out to bag tanks.

woot!

phyrephly wrote:@Powerguy - thanks for all the info.

I have hear a couple of players in other playing groups talk about playing a heavy footslog army. Using the Avatar and lots of Guardians / Dire Avengers.

Can there be a spot for the wraith lords with the Avatar in a list like that?

Maybe play the following sort of combination:

HQ

Farseer - Keep Wraithlords powered up
Avatar - Keep the army Fearless

Elites

Harlequins - cooleness factor and anti-tank if required

Troops

Dire Avengers - base troops (Probably Exarch - Bladestorm)
Dire Avengers - base troops (Probably Exarch - Bladestorm)
Guardians - Not sure what to do with these guys, Heavy weapons playform maybe?
Guardians - Not sure what to do with these guys, Heavy weapons playform maybe?

Heavy Support

Wraithlord - Coolness factor and anti-tank
Wraithlord - Coolness factor and anti-tank




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lord Rogukiel wrote:Eldar units are considered not so good as others because they require more tactics and subtlety to use.

By the way: welcome to the Eldar

I like the subtlety of this army, they seem like they CAN be super powerful. And I like the fluff.

And thanks for the welcome.

I really, really wouldn't do Footdar, especially as you're just starting out. No real ranged shooting and lots of very fragile infanty models will be a recipe to get tabled.

If you want to do a foot army I'd look at Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Tyranids first. Eldar work best when mech'd up unfortunately.

I will investigate the full MECH list then. I don't like the look and feel of the other armies, so I am going to stay Eldar. I just need to figure out what to do in the Mech List.

You can do foot-slogging just fine, I do it all the time but slightly differently. Personally, I hate Wraithlords with a passion, they fail at even the most simplest tasks just like Guardians lol. But I guess they can still be usable.

HQs: You can take Eldrad with another Farseer (recommended) or Eldrad and the Avatar, but you'll never want to drop Eldrad. Ever.

Elites: Decked out Harlequins with everything but fusion pistols. They only have 6" range, you'll fire them maybe twice per game if you're lucky. Just not worth it. Attach the Farseers to the Harlequins. Take a squad of Fire Dragons and keep them behind the harlequins to benefit from cover. They'll still be able to get shot at but you'll be able to fortune them constantly. Or you can take Wraithguard and have them act independently but they usually aren't worth the point sink as others have said so it would be best to avoid them for now.

Troops: You'll want Pathfinders and/or Dire Avengers. Pathfinders can operate on their own the entire game without needing any support (Dooming a squad the fire at helps immensly though). If you take Dire Avengers you'll want to either use them for flanking or operating like the Fragons, behind a squad of Harlies. Pathfinders also have decent chances of taking out transports since their rifles have rending and their volume of fire.

Fast Attack: Warp Spiders are the only decent option here. Don't use them to try and wipe out squads, that's not what they're for. Use them to soften up targets for the Harlequins or finish off a leftover squad from the Pathfinders/Dire Avengers. These are the most finicky unit you can have but they've saved me a few times and absorb a lot of firepower, especially when fortuned. They should be your last choice in units usually unless you have a cunning plan.

Heavy Support: If you're taking Wraithlords, you can pretty much substitute it with any unit and get more out of it (sorry but its the truth). They're slow, easily avoided, have expensive ranged weapons, and are horrendous against anything but vehicles in close combat. If a unit has a power fist you're usually gonna lose your Lord before you kill the squad. Missile launchers are the most common heavy weapon in the game and all it'll take is three solid hits to bring it down and you can't do anything about it because of how hard it is to claim cover for this thing. I was hard pressed on taking Wraithlords in 3rd/early 4th when they had an extra attack and were 75 points a model. If you do take them, you have to give them flamers and make sure they use that to their fullest extent, that's literally their best asset. I'm sorry to have to crush your hopes and dreams but they are just sooo bad. The most you'll get out of it is if you can somehow hug cover till you get close enough to the enemy which four times out of five, hinder your army more than help.

Since you'll be playing a lot of MEQ, I'd suggest at least one squad of Dark Reapers with a Tempest and crack shot. They utterly destroy Marines and the pinning helps even if you're not even fighting Marines. Don't bother with fast shot as your opponent isn't going to be dumb enough to not be in cover lol. You'll almost always want the two Fire Prisms. You usually won't be combining shots but the option is there if you need it, which is a useful niche use from time to time. Get a squad of War Walkers in case you want to switch something out that doesn't fit your playstyle. The EMLs are going to be your best bet since this army isn't going to have much long range anti-tank. Also, imo scatter lasers are not as useful as Dark Reapers. They have better ballistic skill and their exarch ignores cover, plus they can benifit from cover much easier.

Again, I'm sorry for ripping on those Wraithlords since you really wanted to include them in your army. The most I'd use in a game is one. They work best in low point games where your opponent isn't going to be expecting something with such high toughness. Well good luck!

@ Fuegan. You take Wraithlords in a Foot list because you desperately need the anti tank firepower, and other than doing something incredibly stupid like taking War Walkers with Bright Lances they are the best option available. The Prism isn't an option as this is a foot list. You shouldn't be getting them anywhere near combat either (like most of any Eldar foot list), they are a fire support unit and should be backing up the whole game (I would say sit on the board edge but you want to be firing the Bright Lance as well). They give you two ranged anti tank shots each and despite being vulnerable to return fire (despite T8) and find it hard to make use of cover, War Walkers are just too fragile and can't take any real shooting at all, you get maybe one turn of shooting before behind crushed. You don't need Reapers as you are usually going to end up spamming S6 weapons everywhere no matter what you take (S6 spam is one of the few things Eldar do well), which can deal with MEQ but still handles lighter infantry and importantly can damage light tanks as well. Some people take War Walkers with Scatters in foot lists and rely on Guardians with (overpriced, unreliable) Bright Lances for ranged anti tank power, but I don't recommend that as BS3 troops with single shot weapons aren't much fun.

For exactly the same reason I recommend taking Guardians as troops, you usually need the heavy weapons more than the short ranged anti infantry firepower you can get with Avengers. Same again with Harlies, you need the anti tank from the Fusion Pistols even if it is only 6" range, there isn't any other way to get melta into a foot slogging list.

Taking Fire Dragons on foot (even multiple squads) and relying on them for anti tank seems like a recipe for disaster, it doesn't matter if you hide behind the Harlies, anyone with a brain is going to squash them as soon as possible and with T3 4+ they are going to die (doesn't matter about cover, they are going to get torrent of fired to death usually anyway). Even with Wraithlords for ranged anti tank support I would expect to be able to drop the Wraithlords turn 1-2 and still have plenty of time to deal with your slow foot slogging Fire Dragons before they do any damage (assuming I'm not stupid and don't feed them something). If you don't have Wraithlords or even War Walkers which can threaten my armour at range then I can drop the Fire Dragons in turn 1-2 and then start running over your army with tank shocks and there is very little you can do about it.

@ Those saying mech Eldar require no tactics to play I suggest you go out and play a Mechdar list against any half decent 5th edition army. If you play the same way as say a Marine army does then you will likely get crushed. Eldar is so hard to play because a) its a old list with an outdated design ethos behind it, pretty much everything in the Codex (apart from Fire Dragons) is overpriced and b) it dies if you make a mistake a position or something badly. Being fragile and overpriced means you have to be very careful how you play, you can't win in a straight up fight so have to play smart to make up for it.

Anyways, phyrephly that there is pretty a rough blueprint for a foot based list in its most competitive form. Its still going to be pretty short on anti tank firepower with no Fire Dragons to fall back on, and against a truly competitive list it is going to struggle but its probably about as good as it gets when playing Footdar imo.

It sucks not being able to use the units/models you want to but thats the price we pay to use the army we are interested in. Hopefully the next time Eldar get an update more than half the codex will actually be usable.

Thanks guys.

I have a foot list in mind thanks to Aekaen. I am just trying to break it down into a 1500 point list. I still want to have fun, and playing the models i like is what will make the game most fun. As I play and realize that certain elements of the footslog don't work i will slowly change and adapt to make it Mech(and competitive).

Wraithlords seem like they are powerful enough to kill some tanks and make a tarpit, and maybe that's what I am paying points for. Once i have finished the list ill post it for critique.

Thanks for all the info again.

Brothererekose wrote:Dire Avengers: Unload 3 shots (BladeStorm) per trooper then assault with 2 more dice, while the opponent is hampered by Defend, and PW/SS even helps with Invulns.
Scorpions: 36 dice on the charge, 4 more for Exarch power claw?
Mind War allows for sniping any model with Leadership.

That's two units in a whole codex. And yes, compared to SM or Guard they do require better tactics.

For example, with SM you will charge your Assault marines into whatever you want, tooling them up for different roles. In eldar, your scorpions will be looking for foes such as orks whilst your banshees will be looking for MEQ.

So yes, I believe Eldar are more subtle than others in the way they are used to maximum effect.

And mechdar do require tactics.


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Powerguy wrote:
@ Those saying mech Eldar require no tactics to play I suggest you go out and play a Mechdar list against any half decent 5th edition army. If you play the same way as say a Marine army does then you will likely get crushed. Eldar is so hard to play because a) its a old list with an outdated design ethos behind it, pretty much everything in the Codex (apart from Fire Dragons) is overpriced and b) it dies if you make a mistake a position or something badly. Being fragile and overpriced means you have to be very careful how you play, you can't win in a straight up fight so have to play smart to make up for it.

My thoughts exactly

You'll find that purchasing the footdar Eldar will end up being a terrible sink of cash if youa are 'slowly switch it to Mech' when it doesn't work as expected.

Only a few of the units will make the change to Mech, being the Farseers and Dire Avengers.

It's possible to get use out of the Harlies, but most of the rest will end up being items to keep the dust off of your shelves...and on them

@ Farseer Faenyin

The Collecting and painting portion is equally important to me. So having a good looking painted army (even if it wins less) will be enough to make me happy. The cash sink isn't that big a problem for me if i choose to move to mech. And I don't feel it is wasted cash on the foot army thanks to the modelling/collecting part of it.

But thanks for the warning.

phyrephly wrote:Hi all,
I have loved Eldar since the first time i saw 40K. I really want to start playing Eldar. I was wondering if some suggestions could be made regarding a 1500 PT Eldar list thats fun for friendly play but still capable of winning. My friends group currently field the following armies:

While all this talk about Mech being more competitive is more or less true, unless you plan on attending tournaments you'll do allright by a good foot eldar list. Indeed, a good Iyanden wraithhost list can even win local tournaments (but not the big national ones... although after blood angles, space wolves, and guard with mystics and officer of the fleet, the best mech eldar can hope for is a good place lol). Also you just want a list for friendly play... don't worry about streamlining your list to be as competitive as possible, you can still make a solid list and have some fun (6 min sized dire avengers in lance serpents is kinda lame ). I'd say unless your friends are using tournament lists and expect you to play at that level, don't feel pidgeonholed into Mech Eldar, foot eldar are still very viable, just not quite as powerful.

The fact of the matter is that when you start playing with eldar, you're going to fall on your face. We all did (well, all of us with eldar as our FIRST army), its a tough army to use, and it will punish you for making mistakes, and make you a better player for it, and is very rewarding when it comes togeather.

I play mostly mech eldar because I loved the way Wave Serpents look, and like zooming toy spaceships around the board. If you love the look of Wraithlords then you should theme your list around them. At the end of the day they are still toughness 8, one of the highest in the games!, and if you are bringing Wraith Guard, they can get a 4+ cover save by standing behind them.

If you were starting Mech Eldar, you'd still lose a bunch, its inevitable. The grass is always greener on the other side, don't think, man if only I had wave serpents my army would so be better- you'd still be losing. After you've got about 5-10 games under your belt, every time you lose analyzing what you did wrong / could have done better (and doing that after a close win as well ), you'll start to understand your armies capabilities and you'll begin winning. Once you start eldar, you need to stay tough, play through the rough patch, and resist the temptation to jump ship if it gets hard.

Yeah I lost my first 20 or so games when I started (most of which was because the Tau player I faced thought his marklighters stacked to all his units...) then after that I never lost again. Well until I started playing in tournaments :p

Its great that you're basing you army on what you like and not what's most powerful. I wish Marine players had that kind of dignity instead of selling out and making their army 'count as' X chapter.

If you want to play eldar play eldar. Don't Let people discourage you. Yes there is a learning curve to playing eldar, yes they are not the most forgiving race, But thats all part of the game. SO if you really want to play eldar go do it. Playing winning and losing is all part of the game.

IMHO if your starting a new army, start with a core box. Like dire avengers or guardians. Since they are the core units of the army you can never have to many of them. Ask your local GW store or Hobby Store owner or fellow gamers for advice, they'll usually point you in the right direction. Hope this helps

Welcome to 40k and Dakkadakka!

Side Note: @Fuegan, agreed i love playing with my marines even though they're not always the most competitive

Thanks to the help from Akaen I have come up with two variants of the Foot Eldar list. When i say "come up with" I mean copied the list that Akaen gave me and cut some points to make it 1550.

Heavy

Farseer - Runes(both) Spirit Stones, Forture, Guide (150)
Avatar (155)

Harlequins x 7 - Shadowseer, Kisses (184)

Wraithguard x 10 (350)
Warlock - Spirit Seer, Conceal (46)

Guardian Squad - x 11 - EML (108)
Warlock - Conceal (40)

Wraith lord x 3 - Flamer, Shuriken Catapault, Bright Lance, EML (465)

Total Points: 1498


Troopy

Farseer - Runes(both) Spirit Stones, Forture, Guide (150)
Avatar (155)

Harlequins x 7 - Shadowseer, Kisses (184)

Wraithguard x 10 (350)
Warlock - Spirit Seer, Conceal (46)

Guardian Squad - x 11 - EML (108)
Warlock - Conceal (40)

Guardian Squad - x 12 - EML (108)
Warlock - Conceal (40)

Wraith lord x 2 - Flamer, Shuriken Catapault, Bright Lance, EML (465)

Total Points: 1499

Lots of cover saves, lots of anti-tank. The heavy list will rely on wraithguards to capture objectives. The troopy list will have some more options. I get to play my favorite models. Please comment honestly as far as a "starting" list goes. Once I play and realize weaknesses and such I will make changes.