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So after finally getting the rulebook I can now formulate some ideas of how an army of our favourite forest dwellers will play.

Ideas so far; Wildriders are not as goosed as I first feared, they still hit hard and they can disrupt enemy ranks, a better support charge unit is hard to find.

For warmachine hunting it would be difficult to look past eagles, I know I have heard talk that waywatchers and glade riders are also good but as neither of these excel at close-combat you really are looking for a lot of sixes when shooting at warmachines.

Some ideas on possible magic item combos that might not have been employed, for example the Razor Standard combined with a Noble who has Starfire Arrows could with some luck send that scary unit of Chaos warriors running before they hit your fragile elves. This combo combined with the wraithstone will be even more effective,

A noble with Dawnspear in your unit of Eternal Guard should in theory survive Longer as you noble should go first and make things difficult for the enemy to strike back.

Struggling to justify Warhawk riders, I think they will jut be a alternative for warmachne hunting or used for screening a Spellweaver on Eagle.

The hunters Talon is very useful now, taking out a BSB will be a priority for most armies and the woodies have a tailor made item for this, couldn't ask for more.

On troop selection, fielding 10 Glade Guard gives you more drops but fielding 20 means they can rank up and survive a bit better once combat is joined (difficult to avoid combat in this edition).

So these are just some ideas off the top of my head, would like to say I am just back into the hobby (been away a long time) so these ideas might amount to nought.

Hope this kicks off a good discussion

WombleJim wrote:
A noble with Dawnspear in your unit of Eternal Guard should in theory survive Longer as you noble should go first and make things difficult for the enemy to strike back.

My caution to you on this one is that the noble will still take plenty of attacks back- he may swing first, but as long as there are models left, they will be attacking. No more 'clearing your kill zone'. It's what making hammerers hit pretty hard (and die pretty fast).

RZ

WombleJim wrote:

Some ideas on possible magic item combos that might not have been employed, for example the Razor Standard combined with a Noble who has Starfire Arrows could with some luck send that scary unit of Chaos warriors running before they hit your fragile elves. This combo combined with the wraithstone will be even more effective,

I wish this worked, but I don't think it does. The special rule "Armor Piercing" in the long list of special rules in the 8th Ed. book says that a unit with Armor Piercing has an extra -1 to saves against their close combat attacks, so I don't think it lends itself to shooting also. Contrast this with "Flaming Attacks" which specifically says it shooting and close combat attacks are considered flaming.

I hope I'm wrong, I've got 40 Arrer Boyz in Horde formation that would love to have both their bows and choppas be Armor Piercing.

book says that a unit with Armor Piercing has an extra -1 to saves against their close combat attacks, so I don't think it lends itself to shooting also.

you are quite right, see this is why I post on here! solves so many questions, I have a habit of reading what I want to read not what is actually written

My caution to you on this one is that the noble will still take plenty of attacks back

well getting attacks back is unavoidable, the plan is just to make it harder for those attacks to land, rolling 5+ is a lot harder than rolling 4+

apologies about not quoting properly still learning how to use the forum

It probably wouldn't be worth it, but couldn't a highborn combine The Dawnspear and the Fimbulwinter Shard to make himself even harder to hit (it wouldn't fit in the noble poitns allowance)? Chances are everybody would be trying to hit him on 6's... not bad!

Cool to see this thread is up and running . I just got my 3rd game of 8th edition in yesterday, and was shocked to discover the interesting rules associated with assaulting into watchtowers (for the number 6 watchtower battle). Quite a challenge to get grave guard, which are unbreakable, out of that dam thing!

I think wood elves would need to send in units with more attacks... I was using treekin and only 3 monstrous infantry can go up, or 10 regular troopers. I had dryads and probably should have used them instead for the extra attacks. Wardancers would also have been good, or perhaps a treeman with thunderstomp...

Nice idea RiTides, probably wouldn't be worth it but it would be fun to try out, could play a game of how long can you tie that horde up

Still to play a battle but away to order the some minis soon, going to speak to the guys at GW see what their opinions are about my list and tactical ideas.

I disagree on the waywatchers and glade riders comment! A great eagle has 2 attacks at s4. So do 2 glade riders on the turn they charge. Not to mention waywatchers have 2 attacks each.

I'm not saying great eagles aren't a great way to warmachine hunt; at only 50 points they are well worth it. Just that 5 man units of waywatchers do a lot more than just warmachine hunt, and do it better than a single eagle. Basically the same with glade riders.

Pip wrote:I disagree on the waywatchers and glade riders comment! A great eagle has 2 attacks at s4. So do 2 glade riders on the turn they charge. Not to mention waywatchers have 2 attacks each.

to be honest I never thought of assaulting with the waywaytchers but but for less points the Eagles have an additional Stomp attack, a higher strength and a greater weapon skill so I would plump for Eagles everytime,

Just a preference thing as I can see the benefit of waywatchers being able to deploy right next to their intended target or Glade riders advancing close before the battle is joined,

I still think all the above options are better than warhawk riders, I am struggling to see what role they could play in the battle, I may have to try some out at some point see what they can get up to.

waywatchers in 5 man units are absolutely fantastic now in 8th. I almost allways use 2 of them. I hate glade guard scouts, 17 points for a basic bowmen with a basic longbow is awful. I get the most use out of them by deploying them to stop vanguard movements (usually about 15-17" away from a vanguard unit) that way they are unlikely to get a first turn charge from their starting position and have to decide wether to risk getting first turn and making the charge or using their 4" of vanguard movement and not being allowed to charge if they get the first turn.

On the occasion I use glade riders I can use one of the waywatcher units to hold the area that the glade riders plan on using their vanguard move to get to. Helped me get on the side of a warmachine line and take it out by the end of turn 3.

I used my eagle for the first time this week... and forgot to move it at least one of the turns, maybe two . Darn! However, it did it's job in flank-charging and tying up a small enemy unit (he didn't have any war machines to go after).

I am tempted to drop it for that particular list, since with the % needed for troops it's the only place I can find points to put Annoyance of Nettlings on my treeman ancient. I went without it this time, and although he's still tough as nails, he's nearly unstoppable with that item (if he can get a challenge in, of course!). It seemed good, but not a deal-breaker either way- I think if my opponent had decent enough shooting for me to need a warmachine hunter, they could just shoot it down... however, I guess that's one less shot going at the treemen! But I will probably go without it next game and see how I fare.

we allready done with wood elf tactics? lol

(to be fair it's not like I'm contributing much since I figure most of what I do is common sense)

Pip wrote:we allready done with wood elf tactics? lol

lol yeah this thread died quickly,

In an effort to get some more ideas I was wanting to ask about spellsingers/weavers; would it be better having them alone outside a unit or placing them inside a unit, I was thinking glade guard as opposed to Eternal as you dont want your magic user in combat,

any thoughts?

also I will be writing a 2000pt army soon in an attempt to get gaming quicker while I collect the 3000pt one I have already posted.

Can't really think of too many advantages to being outside a unit, unless you have something you can definitely hide behind. Line of sight being easier to achieve means you can't just go stand in a wood now.

Gladeguard seems reasonable.

I was going to chime in with more after a game this weekend, but the time we'd scheduled coincided with a fantasy "mega battle" that was using the table space which we got pulled in to. After 3 hours, we only got through 2 turns, and I'm not much the wiser for my wood elves .

However, the eagle again shined! Taking out a warp lightning cannon!! And I ran my treekin as a block of 18 (since it was a mega battle ) which attracted about half of the fire/magic on the board, and weathered it . Treekin horde ftw!!

2 things...

treekin have a max unit size of 15

and I usually have my mages wander around on their own unless the opponent has a cannon. That way miscasts don't kill anything and there is plenty of terrain / units to give extra negative modifiers to hit them. Just make sure they are close enough to join a unit should the need arise.

i was just thinking that 20 glade guard and a noble with moonstone of the hidden ways would pose a real pain in the *&^?

Put them near a forest, dr pepper the hordes trying to get to you, and then when they finally do, move into the forest and teleport to the far side of the board, facing at your next target?

How about tree singing blood forests would pose nasty as well?

Take 2-3 low level spellcasters and use the attack ability of tree-singing to hit the units trudging towards you?

...

or am i on crack? I haven't even played a fantasy game (i'm a 40k kinda guy) so forgive my ramblings as n00b.

the glade guard idea is meh. escaping isn't a big deal with wood elves.

Tree singing blood forests only works if they are blood forests.... which they well could not be. Plus low level wood elf mages SUCK. Also hitting units with forests doesn't actually work.

Just a thought I had while bored at work, but do ward saves accumulate?

was just wondering as Wildriders have both Talismanic tattoos and Forest spirit, this would give them a 4+ ward save which would be very welcome for such a pricey unit.

I know this should be on the rules section but couldn't be bothered setting up a new threat.


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Ignore my last comment, I have checked the BRB and only the better ward save applies,

oh well will have to make do with the 5+ on our Wild riders

actually, while this thread is still kicking, a n00b question if you all don't mind...

with the 'annoyance of netlings' sprite, does it mean that ANY model that is attacking the target needs 6's?

or is it just when 'challenged' by another character?

Sorry, i haven't yet had any 8th ed experience, let alone fantasy in general ever.... :(

Cheers guys

I like to run 2 Treemen and 1 Ancient, 6 Treekin, along with several blocks of Glade Guard and a unit of 40 Eternal Guard, then throw in a Lord with Bow of Loren and Arcane Bodkins, a BsB, and a Spellsinger. Then just fill up on Dryads. It's done pretty well against everything except for Dwarfs, but that's a tough nut to crack.

snowman40k wrote:actually, while this thread is still kicking, a n00b question if you all don't mind...

with the 'annoyance of netlings' sprite, does it mean that ANY model that is attacking the target needs 6's?

or is it just when 'challenged' by another character?

Sorry, i haven't yet had any 8th ed experience, let alone fantasy in general ever.... :(

Cheers guys

To my understanding (I don't have the book on me), Annoyance of Netling states it only functions during a challenge. A challenge is a specific type of combat, as opposed to just happening to direct your attacks against the character in base-to-base. So it'd only be for a challenge.

That's the way i read it as well...

Soooo... i get how it's useful in a challenge...

But outside of that? what's the best use for a treeman then as everyone seems to rave about 'AoN' + 'Cluster of Radiants' sprites...

Is it just because AoN is one of the 'best of the worst' to have in combo with CoR?

Again, apologies for my humble n00b-ness... (i go hug a tree)


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(just to add, i realise the treeman is pretty uber anyway, just wondering about sprites combinations...)

Pip wrote:2 things...

treekin have a max unit size of 15

and I usually have my mages wander around on their own unless the opponent has a cannon. That way miscasts don't kill anything and there is plenty of terrain / units to give extra negative modifiers to hit them. Just make sure they are close enough to join a unit should the need arise.

It's 12, I just found this out a few days ago while playing around in army builder (hadn't checked back on this thread). For some reason I never noticed the max unit size when reading the army book... Ah well, it was a gimmick idea anyway, but it would have been fun to try at 3k!

WombleJim- You're right on the edit, the only ward saves that accumulate are things like the tzeentch mark for WoC (since it specifically says that it improves a ward save if you have one)... and possibly parry? Or that might only be in conjunction with the mark of tzeentch, I can't remember atm.

eledamris- That looks good! I think we'll see a lot more lists like that, and imho run that way woodies are definitely still a viable force . There's some nasty stuff in there!

snowman- Minsc is right, it only works in a challenge. However, this has saved my bacon against some things... it allows your treeman ancient to take on the opponent's uber-nasty character almost with impunity. Obviously, there are combos out there to take anything down, but a treeman ancient with annoyance of nettlings is one of the toughest for a character to handle. They dish out a LOT of hurt (much more now with thunderstomp) and won't take much back.

Basically, you get to take a big, scary monster, and 1) Makes them a character (as a treeman ancient, rather than a treeman) 2) Have an absurd advantage in a challenge, which only characters can fight in.

It doesn't help against other monsters (like the Hell Pit Abomination!) but it'll save your bacon somtimes! I once took down a high elf prince on star dragon with this (in 7th edition). And it's a bargain for what it does. That's why you see it taken so much... and the cluster of radiants is also a bargain to get a little more magic-defense into an army that really suffers against magic (due to forest spirits not getting their ward save against magical attacks).

ahh... RiTides i was waiting for you to show up...

Good good that explains it then. Had this conversation with a mate during the game and made a note to ask the guys here.

So have the wood elves battalion box so far + spellsinger/weaver + waywatcher lord (or 'as is' for any other particular highborn/nobe)

Next purchase looks like treeman and treekin (damn treekin are expensive!!) unless some screams "noooo" when i'm at the gw altar?

snowman40k wrote:i was just thinking that 20 glade guard and a noble with moonstone of the hidden ways would pose a real pain in the *&^?

Put them near a forest, dr pepper the hordes trying to get to you, and then when they finally do, move into the forest and teleport to the far side of the board, facing at your next target?

I was thinking that you could take this idea one step further, Load out a character like so;
Noble - Wild Rider Kindred, Elven steed, Moonstone of Hidden Ways (157pts)

now when setting up terrain make sure there is a forest in both deployment zones of possible.

next put your noble with a unit of Treekin, deploy them in a wood and first turn you can move your Treekin straight to the flank or rear of the enemy!

This has the potential to be very nasty and not something that would be expected.

Imagine your opponents faces

WombleJim, I went with that trick for a while, only using wildriders. It would probably be much better with treekin! Since they pack such a punch, and can survive being shot at a bit. I like the idea . My only suggestion would be to deploy the noble with a unit of wildriders (if you're taking them) so he can get a look out sir on the first turn, and then move him to join the treekin and teleport them at the end of the movement phase.

If you're not taking wildriders, I guess you'll just have to take your chances! You could also put a unit of glade riders within 3" of him to give him a 4+ look out sir.

Snowman, those sound like good purchase plans! I'd go for the treeman first, since for that price you're still only getting around 2 treekin . And perhaps consider converting the treekin or using alternate models to save some moolah!

snowman40k, that is almost exactly what I am buying at the end of the month

I was just going to buy a LOTR Ent instead of the WHFB treeman a little bit cheeper and not much difference in size (i think)

RiTides any idea what would be best for cobbling together some treekin? I was going to use Gifts for Geeks (cheap for the UK and will save me 20%) otherwise i might just buy some balsa wood and get whittling!!

In relation to the plan; to save buying a unit just for getting "look out sir" save, would it not be best using our free wood to have your treekin at the back of the deployment zone and sticking a treeman in view for a tastier target?

Giving the enemy some "tastier" targets is a good idea . Or putting a treeman in the way- if it doesn't kill the treeman, I believe it will stop and not bounce through him. However, if it's a dwarven magical flaming cannon or the like, it has a good chance of taking him out and hitting the noble anyway... *shakes fist*

I'm going to be scouring the web for some good treekin conversions. There's a few threads over on asrai.org that are discussing it:

http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18222

http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18614

(first linked to by Dainty Twerp in another thread)

But I'm going to look some more, since the GW ones are absurd price-wise! I have enough for my own army (18!) due to some interesting circumstances, but I'm interested in alternate models and something that's more viable with the current prices.

Back on the idea of using the Moonstone of Hidden ways,

this might finally be a good excuse to try and find some use for tree singing in the new edition

you have your own wood in your deployment zone and any other wood you can carefully nudge into position to transport your treekin into, preferably out of opponents charge arcs etc

onto the treekin conversions saw a pic (which is from a deleted thread so cant find out anymore) but they used a box of Dryads and kroot head, I think a box of Dryads will give you 3 treekin roughly